Very noticeable improvements in brain fog using Dr Greg Russell-Jones's transdermal B12 oils (which provide a similar dose to B12 injections)

[Hip]

Did you try the oil again after some off time?

Yes, I take one dose once a week now. I have the impression that when take it, it helps at little with brain fog, but not to the degree that it did initially. Initially, when I first started the B12 oil, I found applying the oil would make a substantial improvement to my brain fog within a couple of hours.

But I think my brain fog has permanently improved since I started taking these B12 oils 2 years back, so perhaps the reason I now don't notice a major cognitive improvement immediately after administering the B12 oil is because my regular use of this oil has taken me up to a stabilized higher plateau of cognitive function.

This is why I take a maintenance dose once a week, as I suspect that without this, I might slowly decline back to the worse cognitive position I was in two years ago.

 

[Aurelius]

So I have received the B12 oil which @Hip mentioned. I used it yesterday and quite a ride last night. I would be very grateful is some people could help me figure out what was happening:

I took the first dose around 2pm, applied on my biceps.
Because I did not feel any effect from it, I took a second dose around 8pm, applied to same area.
Around 1am/2am I was going to bed. That was the time when some side effects kicked in.

Meds:
- 20mg SSRI

Side effects:
I want to mention first, that I got similar side effects in the past from other supplements/foods, so I am not sure 100% that it was in fact the B12 or some food I ate, or if it was the B12, that it was indeed the substance itself or just my weird body reacting to a substance it doesnt know. I will test this further in the future after I let it settle for a couple of days.
- First side effect was increased irritability in the following sense: imagine feeling the struck of a lightning after hearing the clap of a hand. My wife was doing some things in the bathroom at that time, and I could feel (!) every movement/noise from that.
- I got presleep images. Similar from when you play Tetris or a videogame for too long before sleeping.
- Gasping for air when falling asleep. Similar to the falling sensation that you can get before falling asleep. Every time I was falling asleep I had to immediately come back up with a loud gasp for air.
- Later tachycardia with a hot flush.
- in general increased tenseness / similar to a state of panic, which I was not in.

Effects today:
- I think a feel of improved clearheadedness is there.
- Better yet overall more positive feelings which seem oddly related to past memories (a smell, a song will trigger it).
- Both effects could possible also be due to: Lack of sleep; nice spring air today which I generally enjoy

Again:
I got similar side effects from supplements/food before. As they never had anything in common I never could for the life of me figure out what is the reason. Actually I thought that it had something to do with my stomach/gut. So this now being a transdermal oil is not helping my hypothesis XD
Altough I am not looking forward to it, I will replicate the whole test in the future. But any guesses from other users are more than welcome.

 

[seamyb]

So I have received the B12 oil which @Hip mentioned. I used it yesterday and quite a ride last night. I would be very grateful is some people could help me figure out what was happening:

I took the first dose around 2pm, applied on my biceps.
Because I did not feel any effect from it, I took a second dose around 8pm, applied to same area.
Around 1am/2am I was going to bed. That was the time when some side effects kicked in.

Meds:
- 20mg SSRI

Side effects:
I want to mention first, that I got similar side effects in the past from other supplements/foods, so I am not sure 100% that it was in fact the B12 or some food I ate, or if it was the B12, that it was indeed the substance itself or just my weird body reacting to a substance it doesnt know. I will test this further in the future after I let it settle for a couple of days.
- First side effect was increased irritability in the following sense: imagine feeling the struck of a lightning after hearing the clap of a hand. My wife was doing some things in the bathroom at that time, and I could feel (!) every movement/noise from that.
- I got presleep images. Similar from when you play Tetris or a videogame for too long before sleeping.
- Gasping for air when falling asleep. Similar to the falling sensation that you can get before falling asleep. Every time I was falling asleep I had to immediately come back up with a loud gasp for air.
- Later tachycardia with a hot flush.
- in general increased tenseness / similar to a state of panic, which I was not in.

Effects today:
- I think a feel of improved clearheadedness is there.
- Better yet overall more positive feelings which seem oddly related to past memories (a smell, a song will trigger it).
- Both effects could possible also be due to: Lack of sleep; nice spring air today which I generally enjoy

Again:
I got similar side effects from supplements/food before. As they never had anything in common I never could for the life of me figure out what is the reason. Actually I thought that it had something to do with my stomach/gut. So this now being a transdermal oil is not helping my hypothesis XD
Altough I am not looking forward to it, I will replicate the whole test in the future. But any guesses from other users are more than welcome.

The electric feeling when hearing an abrupt sound happens to me all the time. Happened way before CFS or any b12. Actually, you'll get a similar effect if you ever quit your SSRI, although it happens randomly and not just triggered by sounds.

B12 causes air hunger for me. However, a tiny bit of methylfolate stops it. I take a very small crumb of methylfolate and I haven't had the air hunger in the weeks I've been taking it. I say a tiny bit, because I can't really handle anything more. It causes anxiety and overmethylation symptoms, but it's very useful for the air hunger.

 

[Aurelius]

Would someone who is overmethylated benefit from vitamin b12 at all, when it causes these symptoms? Or is it the bodies way to say that it has no further need?

 

[Balrog]

I started on Greg's B12 oil 6 days ago, one squirt of the adeno/methyl oil daily.

Prior to the oil I had been supplementing with daily 1000mcg cyano injections, methylguard+, neurchondria, and oral B12 tablets (cyanno, methyl, hydrox). This mix was yielding the best results to date but I was not stable (daily fluctuations) and had regular crashes.

The B12 oil is clearly absorbing. A daily squirt has eliminated need for the injections and B12 tablets. I'm still taking the Thorne supplements. I am starting to back slowly off the methylguard+ and based on my T4 labs I will be adding in the ISeMo drops from Greg - ordered.

I am not an expert by any means, just sharing my personal experience. For what it is worth, I have very distinct symptoms that first show-up to tell me I'm in trouble. The most objective are blurred vision, IBS, and balance/stability. I've not had these for 5 days now, and this is the first time my vision has been clear and stayed clear in 3 years. I will obviously be monitoring things closely.

As a side note, I have cooked-up a hypothesis for what I am experiencing (hypothesis - a somewhat educated guess...) I suspect that I was probably born with less than optimal methylation, it seems likely this is a common scenario. This could explain a lifelong cold intolerance, border-line anemia, and anxiety issues but nothing so bad I sought medical help.

In my hypothesis, this inefficiency increased very slowly with age (pretty sure this is well documented). It is certainly true that symptom severity has increased in the last 10 years (I'm 64 now).

Last part of the guess, cancer showed up in 2018 and between it and chemo I was pushed over the edge into full-blown functional B12 deficiency and CFS. I certainly know that since completing chemo in april of 2019 I've been trashed and the B12 supplementation is the only thing that has helped, with the exception of activity management to help disrupt the PEM cycle.

It's obvious there are a lot of different scenarios that lead to this place and I'm not recommending anything, just sharing my experience. Also, it's only been 6 days and I need to see where I'm at later as time goes on. Still, what I'm experiencing so far seems worth sharing.

PS - one other interesting aspect of B12 supplementation has been an obvious increase in metabolism and GI processing. I can also attest to feeling a lot of weird stuff the first 2 days with the oil. I was very sleepy and yet I felt like my body was "buzzing." Regardless of what it really meant, I had the impression lots of things in my body were waking up big time. It was not uncomfortable for me. It felt like I was healing. That only lasted 2 days.

 

[perrier]

Where might one procure these transdermal? I have looked on the internet and do not see a vendor. Thanks in advance. The B12, I am referring to.

 

[Hip]

Where might one procure these transdermal? I have looked on the internet and do not see a vendor. Thanks in advance. The B12, I am referring to.

See the link right at the beginning of the first post. Or just go here.

These B12 oils are only available from this one website in Australia.

 

[Busson]

Moisture on the skin is said to adversely affect absorption of B12 oil. How long after showering (assuming that's how you take it) do people wait before applying B12 oil?

 

[Hip]

Moisture on the skin is said to adversely affect absorption of B12 oil. How long after showering (assuming that's how you take it) do people wait before applying B12 oil?

That's right, damp skin will prevent the B12 being properly absorbed, according to Greg. I don't know how long you should wait after showering or bathing before you apply the B12 oil, but I would guess at least an hour.

And I would guess the B12 oil is probably best not applied if you have done any exertion which makes you sweaty.

 

[Busson]

That's right, damp skin will prevent the B12 being properly absorbed, according to Greg. I don't know how long you should wait after showering or bathing before you apply the B12 oil, but I would guess at least an hour.

And I would guess the B12 oil is probably best not applied if you have done any exertion which makes you sweaty.

@Hip That's a more cautious timeframe than I would have guesstimated. I have read some points of view that very little water is absorbed by the skin when bathing and any skin wrinkling is not due to water but a nerve response although I can't say if this is true or not. I suppose I could apply the oil before showering rather than after but then the question become how long does it take to absorb? Any thoughts anyone?

I apply quite small amounts: approx 2 or 3 drops (a full squirt is 8 drops), so any variation in absorption is quite significant. I could apply a large amount of B12 oil on alternate days but I experience a slump even on the same day, so I prefer to dose twice a day.

 

[Busson]

Are any additional taxes and duties now payable after Brexit on UK imports of Greg's oils? I seem to recall they were classified in a way not to attract additional charges but I believe Brexit has made formerly exempt items not subject to charges.

 

[seamyb]

Are any additional taxes and duties now payable after Brexit on UK imports of Greg's oils? I seem to recall they were classified in a way not to attract additional charges but I believe Brexit has made formerly exempt items not subject to charges.

Nope, don't think so. I got mine this year and there was nothing extra to pay.

 

[seamyb]

@Hip did you have to titrate up on the oils?

I'm having to move very slowly on adenosyl/methyl. Any increase in dose worsens my fatigue, despite b12 generally having the opposite effect. I understand Greg's reasoning for this, but I wonder if those like yourself experienced it too?

 

[Hip]

I'm having to move very slowly on adenosyl/methyl. Any increase in dose worsens my fatigue, despite b12 generally having the opposite effect. I understand Greg's reasoning for this, but I wonder if those like yourself experienced it too?

Could this be due to the transient potassium depletion (hypokalemia) that high injectable doses of B12 can cause in the blood?

When I apply the B12 oil to my skin, if I don't take about 300 mg to 500 mg of oral potassium at the same time, I will experience a wave of drowsy tiredness that hits me about an hour or two after the application, and which then lasts for around 4 hours or so.

This wave is almost as if I have been drugged with some knock-out agent; it's quite a strong feeling of tiredness. But taking potassium along with the B12 oil completely prevents this tiredness.

Is this the sort of tiredness you are feeling when you apply the B12 oil?



The reason why B12 can rapidly deplete blood potassium is because B12 stimulates the production of new red blood cells and blood platelets, and this process requires a lot of potassium.

This transient potassium depletion is significant enough that on rare occasions, people have actually died from from it, after a B12 injection, as this article explains:

Hypokalemia (resulting in death) has occurred during vitamin B12 therapy as a result of increased red blood cell requirements during hematopoiesis. Clinical monitoring and correction of potassium levels prior to and during vitamin B12 therapy is necessary.

@Freddd has also provided the same red blood cell explanation for the transient hypokalemia appearing after high dose B12.



One cheap source of potassium is found within low-sodium table salt, which contains some potassium chloride in place of the usual sodium chloride.

In the UK, you can get LoSalt from a supermarket, and this contains two-thirds potassium chloride and one-third sodium chloride. By my calculation, each gram of LoSalt will contain about 350 mg of the element potassium. This is because potassium chloride is 52% potassium.

 

[seamyb]

Could this be due to the transient potassium depletion (hypokalemia) that high injectable doses of B12 can cause in the blood?

When I apply the B12 oil to my skin, if I don't take about 300 mg to 500 mg of oral potassium at the same time, I will experience a wave of drowsy tiredness that hits me about an hour or two after the application, and which then lasts for around 4 hours or so.

This wave is almost as if I have been drugged with some knock-out agent; it's quite a strong feeling of tiredness. But taking potassium along with the B12 oil completely prevents this tiredness.

Is this the sort of tiredness you are feeling when you apply the B12 oil?



The reason why B12 can rapidly deplete blood potassium is because B12 stimulates the production of new red blood cells and blood platelets, and this process requires a lot of potassium.

This transient potassium depletion is significant enough that on rare occasions, people have actually died from from it, after a B12 injection, as this article explains:


@Freddd has also provided the same red blood cell explanation for the transient hypokalemia appearing after high dose B12.



One cheap source of potassium is found within low-sodium table salt, which contains some potassium chloride in place of the usual sodium chloride.

In the UK, you can get LoSalt from a supermarket, and this contains two-thirds potassium chloride and one-third sodium chloride. By my calculation, each gram of LoSalt will contain about 350 mg of the element potassium. This is because potassium chloride is 52% potassium.

I don't think it's potassium. It's possible, but I've been making sure I get loads of it. I drink so much carrot juice my skin's a shade of orange (gonna be changing to tomato juice soon because I'm not digging the Trump vibes). Eat two bananas every day, make sure to get potatoes, sweet potatoes etc regularly.

Plus I don't have any other potassium deficiency symptoms. The B12, I think, has been making me feel a little more energy immediately after. It's the day after, I have to sleep like 11 hours if I increase the dose. I'm only on about 2 drops.

I'll pay a bit more attention to potassium and experiment, but I'm actually hoping the negative effects are a good sign. I'm hoping it's upsetting an ill homeostasis towards a healthy one. I've been ill a year this month. This means one of two things: I can recover fully, or I still have false hope that will be gone in a few years.

B12 alone has worked wonders for me. So much of my illness has recovered. It causes air hunger, which isn't a problem when I take methylfolate. I'm convinced my methylation cycle is at the root of this.

 

[Hip]

Eat two bananas every day

You could try eating the banana at the same time that you apply the B12 oil, which will help ensure there is a supply of potassium in your stomach to draw on.

I'm actually hoping the negative effects are a good sign

Could be.

 

[motorhead]

Are any additional taxes and duties now payable after Brexit on UK imports of Greg's oils? I seem to recall they were classified in a way not to attract additional charges but I believe Brexit has made formerly exempt items not subject to charges.

I don't believe Brexit affects such a shipment, if you were to pay taxes on the oils you would have to pay them regardless of UK's position in relation to EU. My guess of course.
I was just about to post this question to op on whether he paid custom taxes, the fact that he didn't should apply to my case too I'm guessing (Italy), when he ordered we were both part of EU.

 

[motorhead]

I'm still taking the Thorne supplements.

Which ones are you using?

 

[Hip]

B12 alone has worked wonders for me. So much of my illness has recovered.

Have you written up the benefits you experienced from B12 anywhere? Was it B12 injections / oils, or B12 tablets?

I like to collect ME/CFS recovery and improvement stories to add to this thread.

Would you say that B12 has moved you up by one level on the ME/CFS scale of: very severe, severe, moderate, mild, remission? Or maybe half a level? Or is B12 just improving your brain fog, but not helping your overall ME/CFS?

 

[seamyb]

Have you written up the benefits you experienced from B12 anywhere? Was it B12 injections / oils, or B12 tablets?

I like to collect ME/CFS recovery and improvement stories to add to this thread.

Would you say that B12 has moved you up by one level on the ME/CFS scale of: very severe, severe, moderate, mild, remission? Or maybe half a level? Or is B12 just improving your brain fog, but not helping your overall ME/CFS?

I will get round to that - I'm hoping for a further push in the near future.

I started taking a solgar B-Complex liquid dropper under the tongue when I was on the severe end of moderate - I wasn't bed-bound, but I could only sit on the couch and watch the world pass as I was tortured by exhaustion that felt close to death and pain plus a whole host of symptoms. Doing the dishes was too much and wold cause PEM.

After the B12, I felt recovered for about a week in terms of fatigue. It did nothing for the pain. After that week the effects wore off and I needed to continue supplementing or I'd crash after a few days. But even still, I would have said I was mild after that week. I could do pretty much anything, although I haven't exercised yet. I don't think I've had PEM since I started taking B12, just sometimes a low level of fatigue and increased need for sleep.

When I heard Greg's account it rang bells. A lot of things seem to be getting better, such as pain and tinnitus, but I feel more fatigued now. It's worse if I don't take B12, so I'm sticking with Greg until I can say for definite it won't work.

EDITED TO ADD: The Solgar complex had 2,000 mcg B12. I had a thiamine deficiency as well which I corrected around this time too.