Very noticeable improvements in brain fog using Dr Greg Russell-Jones's transdermal B12 oils (which provide a similar dose to B12 injections)

Busson

Senior Member
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104
I have been using this for a couple of weeks and am up to 2-3 squirts but not every day. This is from years ago when I failed to use methb12 on Freddd's protocol and gave up on it. That led to hydroxb12 injections which did nothing

@brenda Surprising that hydroxoB12 injections did little for you. Sometimes B12 pathways are defective and the active forms (methylB12 and perhaps adenoB12 too) are more effective. However hydroxoB12 injections should have done something useful even if it wasn't much.
 

Busson

Senior Member
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104
It is odd though that Dr Myhill's spray comes in a glass bottle, as methylcobalamin is very sensitive to light, and can be broken down and destroyed in a matter of hours in bright daylight.

@Hip I once came across liquid adenosylB12 in a bottle made of Miron glass. Turns out Miron glass is designed to actually let through "beneficial" UV light but I believe that's exactly the sort of light which degrades B12. See here:

https://www.epigenetics-international.com/product/vitamin-b12-adenosyl-methyl-100ml/#

On the other hand, I think the amber glass Myhill uses in her "Transdermal B12 Spray" is protective from UV.
 

Hip

Senior Member
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18,137
Are you still on this protocol and still seeing success?

I just take the B12 oils once a week, and it helps with brain fog. These days I am not taking any other supplement from Greg's protocol, apart from daily high-dose selenium, which I have taken for 10 years now, as it does wonders for my ME/CFS. See this thread about selenium if interested.


Note that when I apply the B12 oil, if I do not also take 300 mg of potassium at the same time, the B12 will cause me to feel very tired later in the day. This is due to the well-known (on this forum) fact that high dose B12 can trigger transient hypokalaemia.
 
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I just take the B12 oils once a week, and it helps with brain fog. These days I am not taking any other supplement from Greg's protocol, apart from daily high-dose selenium, which I have taken for 10 years now, as it does wonders for my ME/CFS. See this thread about selenium if interested.


Note that when I apply the B12 oil, if I do not also take 300 mg of potassium at the same time, the B12 will cause me to feel very tired later in the day. This is due to the well-known (on this forum) fact that high dose B12 triggers a transient hypokalaemia.

Thanks so much! I actually experienced the hypokalaemia big time this week for the first time after taking b12/folate sublingually (in the past I had only taken capsules) and wow it was not fun. Part of me is like is it bad that we're taking such a high dose that this is happening? Have you found that you need less and less b12 over time or has it been consistent? @Hip
 

Artemisia

Senior Member
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368
Thx for the info, Hip. I want to try b12 oil as I hate taking Jarrow b12 with citric acid and other toxic ingredients, including xylitol which bothers me.

Any idea which b12 form we should be taking based on what genetic snps we have?
 

Artemisia

Senior Member
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368
Does anyone know about / recommend lithium orotate in addition to b12, to help transport the b12 into cells?

I vaguely remember my genetic methylation practitioner saying I'd have trouble transporting b12.
 

Judee

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Rvanson

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Most doctors consider that you have enough B-12 is the blood work says so, or they just blow you off.
I'm going to order some online, as I felt better on injections and I don't trust or like the oils. I'm likely low
on the intrinsic factor, and needles are not an issue with me at all. The B-12 pills don't help either.
 

Jadzhia

Senior Member
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Do you know what kind of B2 Greg recommends?

Greg says the B2 you take should be taken often enough to keep your urine bright yellow all the time. Basically you want saturation of B2 in your system so it can always be available for making FAD from FMN. That usually means divided daily doses. Best taken well away from Calcium if you supplement with that. There are also various medications that interfere with it, or riboflavin can interfere with (e.g. riboflavin reduces absorption of tetracycline, tricyclic antidepressants may lower riboflavin levels.)
 

bread.

Senior Member
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499
I just take the B12 oils once a week, and it helps with brain fog. These days I am not taking any other supplement from Greg's protocol, apart from daily high-dose selenium, which I have taken for 10 years now, as it does wonders for my ME/CFS. See this thread about selenium if interested.


Note that when I apply the B12 oil, if I do not also take 300 mg of potassium at the same time, the B12 will cause me to feel very tired later in the day. This is due to the well-known (on this forum) fact that high dose B12 can trigger transient hypokalaemia.


Daily "high dose of selenium," depending on what you understand as to be "high," will result in toxicity.
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
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758
Location
Cambodia
Hi Hip.

So, nearly three years on, how did Greg's B12 oils & co-factors pan out?

Still benefiting? Effect on energy? Cumulative or ad hoc?

Thanks! I'm just giving them another shot after 10 years....



For the last few months I have been using the methylcobalamin + adenosylcobalamin vitamin B12 transdermal oil developed by Dr Greg Russell-Jones in Australia, which he recommends for ME/CFS.

This transdermal B12 oil has made very noticeable improvements in my brain fog and cognitive clarity.

The cognitive clarity effects of this B12 oil kick in fast: I find within 2 or 3 hours of rubbing the B12 oil into my skin, I start to feel increased cognitive clarity; and this mental clarity lasts for around 3 days on just one transdermal dose of the B12 oil.

So you may only need to apply the B12 oil once every 2 or 3 days — though Greg recommends the B12 oil should be used daily if you are aiming for sustained improvements in your ME/CFS.

Greg has a PhD in biochemistry, and an in-depth knowledge of B12. Greg's website in Australia where he sells his B12 oils is here: www.b12oils.com



This is the first time I've obtained cognitive improvements from vitamin B12. Some years ago, I tried B12 hydroxocobalamin injections, but without noticing any benefits. And I did not get this type of cognitive boost from sublingual methylcobalamin (although I never tried methylcobalamin injections). However I found the methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin forms of B12 in Greg's product have a clearcut beneficial effect on my brain fog.

Methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin are the 2 active forms of B12, whereas hydroxocobalamin is an inactive form that has to be converted to the active forms in the body.

I found it easy to notice the cognitive benefits of this B12 oil, because they kick in within hours. So I can be feeling pretty brain fogged at the beginning of the day, then apply the B12 oil, and within a few hours I am in a state of significantly increased cognitive clarity.



Greg uses a skin penetration enhancer technology in his B12 oils that allows the vitamin B12 to efficiently penetrate across the skin and into the body. This penetration enhancer is known as a water-in-oil microemulsion (it is not something you can easily make at home).

Greg authored a paper on microemulsion penetration enhancers, and has a patent also, and has expertise in penetration enhancers.

Greg estimates that with this penetration enhancer, around 80% of the vitamin B12 in his oil is absorbed when rubbed into the skin, which means the B12 doses you get from this oil are comparable to B12 injections.

In fact Greg says B12 oil may be better than injections, because the B12 oil provides a slow release mechanism as it penetrates the skin, allowing the body to better utilize the B12, compared to the short-lived spike in B12 levels that you get from a B12 injection.



Greg's Adenosyl/Methyl B12 oil comes in a pump bottle, and the pump measures out a dose of 0.25 ml of oil, which contains adenosylcobalamin 1.8 mg and methylcobalamin 0.7 mg — a total of 2.5 mg (2500 mcg) of vitamin B12. You pump a dose of this oil into your hand, and then rub into your skin.

Remember, it's estimated around 80% of this B12 is absorbed into your bloodstream, so you can see that you are getting high doses into your system: you are going get the equivalent of a 80% x 2.5 = 2 mg B12 injection from one dose of the B12 oil.

The cost is $50 for one bottle containing up to 60 x 2.5 mg B12 doses, plus around $25 shipping if you order internationally (or $40 a bottle if you buy 3 or more); it sounds a little expensive, but if you compare that to the cost of sixty B12 injections, it's quite good value.

The skin should not be wet or damp when you apply the B12 oil, because Greg says this will reduce absorption. With B12 oils containing methylcobalamin, it may be best to apply to skin areas that are covered by clothes and so not exposed to light (eg, your belly), as methylcobalamin breaks down under light exposure.

Bottle of B12 transdermal oil (left). Single dose of B12 oil on hand (right).
View attachment 31551 View attachment 31552



I noticed two side effects from the B12 oil, though (but both have solutions):


(1) Sometimes around 2 hours after applying the B12 oil, I would get hit with a wave of increased tiredness and increased brain fog that would last for around 4 hours before clearing up. I think this may be due to a transient hypokalemia (low blood potassium), which high doses of B12 are known to sometimes cause.

But I found that if I take around 400 mg or so of oral potassium at the same time as applying the B12 oil, this prevents the wave of tiredness (you get around 400 mg of potassium in a banana). I contacted Greg about this, and he thinks the hypokalemia arises from B12's effect on aldosterone, a hormone which controls the blood sodium/potassium balance.

However, drugs.com says the hypokalemia is due to increased red blood cell requirements during hematopoiesis. This is also the explanation @Freddd gives.

This transient hypokalemia (low potassium) due to high dose B12 on rare occasions has caused death, according to drugs.com. So an oral potassium supplement taken at the same time as the B12 is advisable.


(2) Often this B12 oil containing methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin would cause an overstimulation effect. My hunch was this might be due to over-methylation, so I started experimenting with taking oral niacinamide 500 mg at the same time as applying the B12 oil (niacinamide supposedly inhibits methylation, I've read), and it seems to counter the overstimulation.
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
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758
Location
Cambodia
Rooney, how are you doing on the B12 oils.cofactors now, 2-3 years down the track?


I agree that these oils are great and easier to use than absorbing a pill in the mouth or inj. Strong potassium need right afterword but that got better when I added B1 and B2. I used the combo Greg suggests. Think I'll add these minerals too, Hip. Thank you.

My neurologist complained that my b12 lab was way too high. My story - I have MTR++ mutation so I asked for a lithium (a mineral) lab per Amy Yasko... 0 lithium in my blood. Just started lithium orate 5 to 10 mg, so I'm hoping to get better methylation as she said lithium is a B12 transporter and it will get the vitamin into the cells. We all need some and usually get it in drinking water, mineral water.
In her video presentation on lithium, high B12 in the blood is an indication of no lithium. I'm a "lithium dumper".

I'm tired of playing doctor. Years and years of B12, but lacking the mineral I need.
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
758
Location
Cambodia
Busson, could you update us on how you went/are going with the B12 oils?

Thanks!


@Hip I have used Greg's B12 oil for some time now and find them to be very good. One squirt a day is too much for me so I apply just a half squirt a day to keep the delivery rate as even as possible. It is easy enough with the newish mixed oil container to get a drop at a time. For the older container, I put a squirt in a small metal cap and then take what I need.

I found excessive B12 caused various symptoms including breathlessness - which I can fix using potassium. Intriguingly, when I used too much B12 oil I also got very distinct symptoms of B12 deficiency. It was almost as if the excess B12 somehow clogged the pathways with the result that less net B12 was available (to convert homocysteine to methionine).

On closer inspection, it appeared that I was not recycling B12 (through the MSR pathway) and saw I was getting a beneficial boost a few hours after applying oil but later have symptoms of deficiency for most of the day.

I added in all Greg's favourite cofactors (iodine, selenium and moybdenum as well as multidosing B2) to produce FMN and FAD for the MSR pathway and even took SAM-e as that too is need on the MSR pathway but never got any long lasting benefit from these.
 
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