Very noticeable improvements in brain fog using Dr Greg Russell-Jones's transdermal B12 oils (which provide a similar dose to B12 injections)

[Jadzhia]

Taking T3 fixed my brain fog. I am hypothyroid so it's for a good reason, not just randomly taking it, which I don't recommend. Thyroxine (T4) didn't do anything for me so I tried T3 and that has worked really well. Fatigue is another thing, though.

 

[Bluebluesky]

I've been on the protocol for a while. A few months on the cofactors and was on the full dose of B12 for a few weeks but developed worse fatigue. Was told to reduce the B12, which I did, but fatigue has continued. Who knows if worse fatigue is from the protocol or not.

Wouldn't the worsened fatigue be from potassium defiency? To my knowledge fatigue is a normal reaction to getting b12 after a deficiency because the body will start repair work on cells, thereby boosting cell growth, which will take a lot of potassium.

There is a huge thread in here about the struggle to get enough potassium in this situation. You may need as much as 5000 mg a day which is 3 times more than the normal RDI.

I've had a lot of extra fatigue after taking b12. Sometimes I also think that the body just gets tired from the repair work in general.

 

[Artemisia]

Wouldn't the worsened fatigue be from potassium defiency? To my knowledge fatigue is a normal reaction to getting b12 after a deficiency because the body will start repair work on cells, thereby boosting cell growth, which will take a lot of potassium.

There is a huge thread in here about the struggle to get enough potassium in this situation. You may need as much as 5000 mg a day which is 3 times more than the normal RDI.

I've had a lot of extra fatigue after taking b12. Sometimes I also think that the body just gets tired from the repair work in general.

Thanks. The FB group people recommend extra potassium. I have a high potassium diet and get 7000 mg from food alone, but I have been supplementing another 500 mg or so most days. I guess 7500 mg still might not be enough?

 

[Bluebluesky]

I guess 7500 mg still might not be enough?

7500 is surely a lot! But as you say, there isn't really such a thing as 'enough' as long as the repair process goes on. It's like feeding baby birds in a nest, no matter how much you give them they will still be hungry because they are growing.

I think GRJ has a good point in taking less b12, and actually that's the strategy I have been using too by staying on sublinguals in stead of oil or injections. Because I already have too much trouble keeping my potassium up as it is.

Apparently the oil is as effective as injections, so maybe try try one or more kind of sublinguals for a start to find something that works, but slower?

At least in my experience the tiredness and the need for potassium is just part of the game and something to accept as a price to pay for the healing. Putting it out will only make it worse.

 

[Artemisia]

I think GRJ has a good point in taking less b12, and actually that's the strategy I have been using too by staying on sublinguals in stead of oil or injections.

Do you mean he sometimes recommends people don't take the full dose of his oil? I'm a bit confused because I believe he's said you cannot replete B12 by oral B12 supplements.

 

[Bluebluesky]

Do you mean he sometimes recommends people don't take the full dose of his oil? I'm a bit confused because I believe he's said you cannot replete B12 by oral B12 supplements.

Ah, someone wrote that he recommended to take less further up in the thread. Sorry, I thought that was you.

Nevertheless I think that may be a solution for you to slow things down a bit. Sublinguals may not get you all the way, but in my experience they've worked well enough to do the job at first. Also you could take the oil less frequently.

I'm switching to oil now (just ordered) because by now I can't cover my need with the sublinguals.

 

[Jadzhia]

Do you mean he sometimes recommends people don't take the full dose of his oil? I'm a bit confused because I believe he's said you cannot replete B12 by oral B12 supplements.

Yes he does, especially at the start of taking B12 oil. This is due to some folks having reactions, so he recommends as little as a pin head of oil to start with if that's what it takes, then gradually build up to the full dose. I imagine that would take some time! Fortunately I was able to start on about half the dose and didn't have too many issues. However some folks definitely do have to go low and slow.

 

[jason30]

Taking T3 fixed my brain fog. I am hypothyroid so it's for a good reason, not just randomly taking it, which I don't recommend. Thyroxine (T4) didn't do anything for me so I tried T3 and that has worked really well. Fatigue is another thing, though.

Do you take T3 as a supplement? Or medication through the doc?

 

[Jadzhia]

Do you take T3 as a supplement? Or medication through the doc?

Strictly, neither. I have hypothyroidism so was put on Levothyroxine (T4) by my GP, but it didn't do much for me. I discovered that some folks took T3, but in the UK it's really hard to get it prescribed and my GP said I wouldn't get it, so I bought some from an online pharmacy to try, and felt a lot better mentally. My GP knows I take it, but it's not prescribed. I've had to figure out for myself how much to take and how to take it (in 2 daily doses).

 

[jason30]

Strictly, neither. I have hypothyroidism so was put on Levothyroxine (T4) by my GP, but it didn't do much for me. I discovered that some folks took T3, but in the UK it's really hard to get it prescribed and my GP said I wouldn't get it, so I bought some from an online pharmacy to try, and felt a lot better mentally. My GP knows I take it, but it's not prescribed. I've had to figure out for myself how much to take and how to take it (in 2 daily doses).

Thanks, the same goes for me (I have hashimoto). My GP don't describe it for me so I am looking for alternatives. Did you bought it from an online pharmacy in the UK?

 

[Jadzhia]

Thanks, the same goes for me (I have hashimoto). My GP don't describe it for me so I am looking for alternatives. Did you bought it from an online pharmacy in the UK?

No, have to get it from overseas suppliers. Always a bit of a worry, my most used one has changed payment methods so that none work for me now, and I am scratching around finding other suppliers. Not fun.

 

[Bluebluesky]

Taking T3 fixed my brain fog. I am hypothyroid so it's for a good reason, not just randomly taking it, which I don't recommend. Thyroxine (T4) didn't do anything for me so I tried T3 and that has worked really well. Fatigue is another thing, though.

Would you think that T3 fixes your brain fog for the same reason that iodine or iodide fixes mine? (Well, at least it makes it considerably better...) Seems that it is all related to thyroid metabolism, but I have very little insight in that. I just know that iodine helps for brain fog for quite some people.

 

[Jadzhia]

Would you think that T3 fixes your brain fog for the same reason that iodine or iodide fixes mine? (Well, at least it makes it considerably better...) Seems that it is all related to thyroid metabolism, but I have very little insight in that. I just know that iodine helps for brain fog for quite some people.

Good question. I had to think about that for quite awhile. Quite possibly that's true. I also take a small amount of Iodine but wasn't taking any when I originally started T3. From the very first 5 mcg I took, I felt the change in my brain. That never happened taking T4. On T4 I stopped dreaming. T3 brought back dreams vividly. It's odd because T3 clearly gets to my brain but the rest of my hypo symptoms are stubbornly still there.

 

[jason30]

No, have to get it from overseas suppliers. Always a bit of a worry, my most used one has changed payment methods so that none work for me now, and I am scratching around finding other suppliers. Not fun.

Thanks, may I receive the overseas supplier by PM? And the supplier which changed payments? It's hard to find a reliable source of T3.

 

[popolary]

Hi Hip! Great write-up, as usual. How long were you taking the co factors before you added the b12oils?

There are 2 FB groups Understanding b12 deficiency and Understanding b2/12 OAT Markers that are under the direction/closely monitored by Dr. Greg. Lots of good information being collected to share. Available in their files. Knowing your journey and your achievements you could be an asset to the group. Happy healing.

I cannot find either of the FB groups you've mentioned through a search. How can I locate them?

 

[Artemisia]

I cannot find either of the FB groups you've mentioned through a search. How can I locate them?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/946944078825502

Wait till Wed to open that link and join. Group's only open Wed am thru Fri pm

 

[popolary]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/946944078825502

Wait till Wed to open that link and join. Group's only open Wed am thru Fri pm

Thank you. I am wanting to learn more about B12. My practitioner wants me to take methylated B vitamins as I'm low on B12 and she says if low in that, likely low in the other B vitamins. She wants me to start on pills and if that doesn't work go to shots. Have rec'd conflicting info on taking methylated version though so looking to learn more. I appreciate this link.

 

[maddie521]

I am not sure if intramuscular injections are slow release. Anyway I was injecting my hydroxocobalamin subcutaneously.


In any case, the B12 doses you get from a vial of injectable B12 are typically in the 500 to 1000 mcg range (and are only one form of B12). Whereas one shot of the B12 oils provides around 2000 mcg of systemically available B12 (and provides two forms of B12 in the same shot: methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin).

It's probably a good idea to also take the cofactors recommended by Greg (which are all to be found in this supplement that he suggests: Life Extension's Two-Per-Day Multivitamin and Mineral).

And I found the shot of the B12 oil would often cause a temporary wave of tiredness a few hours after rubbing it onto my skin, this tiredness lasting for about 4 hours. But the tiredness is prevented if I take around 400 mg or more of oral potassium with the B12. I believe the potassium helps prevent the hypokalemia that B12 can cause. So consider potassium if you experience this temporary increased tiredness. You get about 400 mg of potassium in a banana.

I’m surprised to read that people with ME/CFS are doing B12 injections in the 500 mcg to 1000 mcg range. That dosage did not help me at all. Going up to 5000 mcg was life-altering, even with cyanocobalamin.

I had always heard that higher doses were recommended (5000 to 10,000 mcg). Why have people been using these lower doses? If that is common, I’m not surprised that so many people say B12 injections did not help them.

 

[Hip]

I had always heard that higher doses were recommended (5000 to 10,000 mcg). Why have people been using these lower doses? If that is common, I’m not surprised that so many people say B12 injections did not help them.

Interesting, would you have any references for this?

With Dr Greg Russell-Jones's transdermal B12 oils, he estimates about 2000 mcg enters the bloodstream from a single transdermal application. So this is like a strong B12 injection, but more economical, and easier to apply.

But in my own experiments, I found a once weekly administration of these doses was just as effective as once daily (once daily would be the equivalent of a 2000 mcg injection daily). So in my case, I did not find increasing the dose was more effective.

Though some patients have told me that it is only the rapid flood dose of B12 that you get from an injection that works for them, not the slower absorption process through the skin that you get with B12 oils, which trickles in the B12 over a few hours.


Unfortunately since catching COVID two years ago, and developing long COVID ME/CFS on top of my pre-existing enterovirus ME/CFS, I found B12 stopped working for me.

 

[Bluebluesky]

I’m surprised to read that people with ME/CFS are doing B12 injections in the 500 mcg to 1000 mcg range. That dosage did not help me at all. Going up to 5000 mcg was life-altering, even with cyanocobalamin.

I had always heard that higher doses were recommended (5000 to 10,000 mcg). Why have people been using these lower doses? If that is common, I’m not surprised that so many people say B12 injections did not help them.

Great to hear that b12 might work for some at higher doses than the standard dose of 1000 mcg a day.

Another aspect of this is that it is quite common to get serious hypokalemia when you get b12 after a deficiency. So some of us need to go low and very, very slow.