Dr Markov CBIS Theory of ME/CFS - General Discussion

[bensmith]

Yes.

 

[hapl808]

To be clear, you're saying out of 4000 people that were treated with an injected medication, you had ZERO serious side effects or bad reactions? I'm guessing you didn't have a control group if this is just tracking patient outcomes, but that is quite remarkable seeing as placebos have a higher incidence of serious adverse events.

Do you have any theories why there are bad reviews about your practice? it seems like with 90%-95% success rates, we would see many people posting positive things about it everywhere. And the same rich people and celebrities who spend tens of thousands to travel for stem cell treatments from countries with more liberal rules than the USA would surely visit you?

I'm just surprised that there are quite a number of well known people in the CFS community - so if I were you, I would reach out and offer to pay for some of their treatments. If the moderators here or elsewhere were perfectly 'cured', I'm sure you would have no trouble getting more publicity for your protocol and possibly more research funding.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Guess why there is no study and will never be…

 

[hb8847]

Obviously some sort of official study would be ideal but given this is unlikely to be forthcoming perhaps it's worth doing some investigating, just in case there is any validity to any of this.

I wonder if there is a CFS community in Ukraine that we could contact and try to find out whether these claims have any validity? Is there any chance of getting in touch with the people who've left reviews on the site?

Perhaps @ME/CFS - Mystery No More! Under ME/CFS hides CBIS you could put out a request to your 2000 cured patients to see if any of them would be willing to share their results? I do not buy the claim that people cured from CFS wouldn't want to discuss their prior illness, particularly if it helps those still in need.

Without a proper study I fail to see another way of progressing with this.

 

[Aidan Walsh]

Obviously some sort of official study would be ideal but given this is unlikely to be forthcoming perhaps it's worth doing some investigating, just in case there is any validity to any of this.

I wonder if there is a CFS community in Ukraine that we could contact and try to find out whether these claims have any validity? Is there any chance of getting in touch with the people who've left reviews on the site?

Perhaps @ME/CFS - Mystery No More! Under ME/CFS hides CBIS you could put out a request to your 2000 cured patients to see if any of them would be willing to share their results? I do not buy the claim that people cured from CFS wouldn't want to discuss their prior illness, particularly if it helps those still in need.

Without a proper study I fail to see another way of progressing with this.

I wonder also why stool samples are not being used now, I looked up in the UK for one test e-coli they also do stool sampling, toxins & treatments also push to clear liquids no colas clear colas are ok, no coffee, alcohol, low-fat foods the list is long they even mention blood transfusion & dialysis in some.

 

[Boba]

Honestly, I think these guys don’t make any sense. It’s just about cashing in.

 

[hb8847]

I wonder also why stool samples are not being used now, I looked up in the UK for one test e-coli they also do stool sampling, toxins & treatments also push to clear liquids no colas clear colas are ok, no coffee, alcohol, low-fat foods the list is long they even mention blood transfusion & dialysis in some.

I've done a few stool tests in the UK. Isn't the idea though that these bacteria reside in the kidneys and so presumably wouldn't show up on a stool test?

 

[Aidan Walsh]

Honestly, I think these guys don’t make any sense. It’s just about cashing in.

I have heard 20 causes over the years

 

[lenora]

According to the Markov Clinic’s experience in the diagnostics and treatment of CBIS (CFS/ME) in 4500 children and adults, CBIS is diagnosed in 90-95% of all primary cases of CFS/ME, so diagnosed outside/before the Markov Clinic, and in 95-100% of direct visits to the Markov Clinic with symptoms of CFS/ME. Successful treatment of CBIS (CFS/ME) with 95-97%-efficiency and with full recovery was achieved in all patients diagnosed with CFS/ME.

The treatment sounds logical in many ways, but 95-97% efficiency and full recovery in all patients?

Well, Husamor, I join you in your ?? of "all patients." I'd like to read 4,500 stories and get their take on what recovery means. I hope you're doing OK. Yours, Lenora.

 

[Aidan Walsh]

I've done a few stool tests in the UK. Isn't the idea though that these bacteria reside in the kidneys and so presumably wouldn't show up on a stool test?

Maybe they have something, I was thinking about this as well as far as stool testing & wondered why urine samples over 3 days. I am not knocking their findings I do not want to go to my GP with things that do not add up & look like an idiot...

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Maybe they have something, I was thinking about this as well as far as stool testing & wondered why urine samples over 3 days. I am not knocking their findings I do not want to go to my GP with things that do not add up & look like an idiot...

With this “”””paper”””” you will

 

[hb8847]

I've done a review..
Their results are creditable, their treatment is creditable — their model may not be
It is just an alternative path to the same goal -- changing the bacteria in the body that is causing ME/CFS. They found the bacteria include combinations of ( enterococci, enterobacteria-Escherichia coli, Klebsiella, Proteus, Enterobacteriaceae, Morganella, Acinetobacteria, Hafnia, Seratia, Staphylococcus and Streptococcus ). Instead of using antibiotics, they use vaccines (phages are still a third option).

https://cfsremission.com/2021/06/01/is-me-cfs-a-case-of-cbis/

@Lassesen , could you possibly expand a bit more on this? You say their results are creditable, what does that mean?

 

[Hipsman]

I've done a few stool tests in the UK. Isn't the idea though that these bacteria reside in the kidneys and so presumably wouldn't show up on a stool test?

Markov says he successfully treated 92.7% of 4288 of his ME/CFS-CBIS patients, but the only ME/CFS patient report that can be found online talks about successfully using his autovaccines for chronic sinus infection.

After curing this chronic sinus infection the ME/CFS patient went into remission (2018-present, most likely the patient would report back if relapse). I posted this report here (page 3 of this thread).

 

[Aidan Walsh]

I've done a review..
Their results are creditable, their treatment is creditable — their model may not be
It is just an alternative path to the same goal -- changing the bacteria in the body that is causing ME/CFS. They found the bacteria include combinations of ( enterococci, enterobacteria-Escherichia coli, Klebsiella, Proteus, Enterobacteriaceae, Morganella, Acinetobacteria, Hafnia, Seratia, Staphylococcus and Streptococcus ). Instead of using antibiotics, they use vaccines (phages are still a third option).

https://cfsremission.com/2021/06/01/is-me-cfs-a-case-of-cbis/

Dr. Charles Stratton found bacteria in the body he told me personally it is treatment-resistant now C. pneumonaie

 

[Aidan Walsh]

Dr. Charles Stratton found bacteria in the body he told me personally it is treatment-resistant now C. pneumonaie

There is also a Team of ENT Doctors in Japan that say ME/CFS is chronic severe naso epipharyngitis & is treatable they also presented their findings in London, UK there was somewhere Youtube Videos on these findings

 

[Hip]

There is also a Team of ENT Doctors in Japan that say ME/CFS is chronic severe naso epipharyngitis & is treatable they also presented their findings in London, UK there was somewhere Youtube Videos on these findings

Yes, that's Dr Osamu Hotta's theory, which is detailed in this PR thread.

Dr Hotta says the ME/CFS-like illness that can (very rarely) appear after HPV vaccination can involve chronic nasopharynx inflammation (inflammation that he believes the vaccination can trigger). This illness is more ME/CFS-like than true ME/CFS though.

I am not sure if there is any infection in the nasopharynx in these patients, or whether it is just inflammation (like autoimmune inflammation, without an infectious case). Dr Hotta treats the inflammation with topical zinc chloride applied to the inflamed area, and in some case has obtained dramatic remissions.

Dr Hotta said he has also found a few cases of true ME/CFS triggered by vaccination involved chronic nasopharynx inflammation and responded to his treatment. Though I was in contact with one mother whose daughter developed an ME/CFS-like illness after their HPV vaccination, and there was no sign of nasopharynx inflammation in this patient. So this theory may apply to some patients, but not others.

 

[Aidan Walsh]

I have not read all the responses so apologies in advance if I'm repeating someone else --- I think the potential fallacy here is the number of cases of CFS/ME that come about after a VIRAL infection, rather than a bacterial infection. It would seem odd how many people get a viral infection and don't ever recover. What would that have to do with bacteria?

Viral infections were presumed, not causal, as soon as someone sees high titers to a virus they assume it is their cause, it has been like this for years within the ME/CFS community now, how many ME/CFS patients have been

told it is Lyme disease. For decades we have heard Lyme, EBV, coxsackie, HHV6-7, enterovirus. etc., I had one top Microbiologist for years he always said you will take the antibodies to your grave it does not mean an

infection exists it means the immune system is over-activated when they get high they are past antibodies. Also, a PCR test is also not a diagnostic tool, it never has been either & this is a quote from the developer RIP of the PCR test. I hope this is the Cause with this team here mentioned. Assume has 3 words 'Ass out of U & Me'

 

[Aidan Walsh]

Yes, that's Dr Osamu Hotta's theory, which is detailed in this PR thread.

Dr Hotta says the ME/CFS-like illness that can (very rarely) appear after HPV vaccination can involve chronic nasopharynx inflammation (inflammation that he believes the vaccination can trigger). This illness is more ME/CFS-like than true ME/CFS though.

I am not sure if there is any infection in the nasopharynx in these patients, or whether it is just inflammation (like autoimmune inflammation, without an infectious case). Dr Hotta treats the inflammation with topical zinc chloride applied to the inflamed area, and in some case has obtained dramatic remissions.

Dr Hotta said he has also found a few cases of true ME/CFS triggered by vaccination involved chronic nasopharynx inflammation and responded to his treatment. Though I was in contact with one mother whose daughter developed an ME/CFS-like illness after their HPV vaccination, and there was no sign of nasopharynx inflammation in this patient. So this theory may apply to some patients, but not others.

Yes, that was him thanks

 

[hapl808]

Is there any further information / research / treatment evaluations from Dr Hotta?

 

[Alvin2]

There is also a Team of ENT Doctors in Japan that say ME/CFS is chronic severe naso epipharyngitis & is treatable they also presented their findings in London, UK there was somewhere Youtube Videos on these findings

Theories are a dime a dozen.
The nice thing about these simplistic ones is that they are low tech and easy to prove/disprove.