Dr Markov CBIS Theory of ME/CFS - General Discussion

[Jyoti]

MODERATOR COMMENT: This thread is for discussing Dr Igor Markov's CBIS theory of ME/CFS, and his autovaccine treatment of ME/CFS.

Dr Markov's autovaccine treatment is claimed to fully and permanently cure 93% of ME/CFS patients.


You may like to read the SUMMARY POST of Dr Markov's CBIS theory and his autovaccine treatment of ME/CFS. It is a good idea to have a quick look at the summary post before reading this thread.


You can ask Dr Markov questions on Dr Markov's Question & Answer thread, but please do not engage in any side topic discussions on that Q&A thread, nor in any skeptical or critical debate. This is to ensure the Q&A thread remains clean and uncluttered.

For critical debate of the CBIS theory, or side topic discussion, please us this thread.

 

[bread.]

Bs

 

[Alvin2]

Would be nice if true.

They can publish a paper that is less rambling and actually peer reviewed and in a respectable journal.
With actual experimental data and a proposed treatment if available that is not a vague reference to something no one has heard of.

Then others can seek replication.

 

[Boba]

I would so much love to believe it

 

[Azayliah]

So more simply, Chronic Food Poisoning Syndrome in combination with the use of antibiotics? The word density and rambling of the abstract is a little hard for me to get through (though the empathy of the writers is apparent and appreciated), and when I run a search on "bacterial intoxication" the results are for food poisoning, so I'm just checking I didn't misunderstand.

There have been so many claims of having found the problem and cures over my 15+ years with this illness that I am very skeptical of anyone who makes a similar claim. What cure is being proposed in this case, and how expensive is it?

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

BTW: I can’t find a Markov Clinic or anyone of you in the National Medical University, Ukraine

 

[Hipsman]

I recommend people check out Hip's post on this.

 

[Lisa108]

BTW: I can’t find a Markov Clinic

I think it is this one: Link

! I'm just posting this for interest, NOT recommending it !

 

[andyguitar]

It is just an alternative path to the same goal -

But perhaps a better path?

 

[ljimbo423]

Their results are creditable, their treatment is creditable — their model may not be

This is my thought as well.

 

[ljimbo423]

But perhaps a better path?

That's possible. I'd like to see more info. on recovery rates, etc.

 

[andyguitar]

Use of such autovaccines to treat bacteria infection dates back to before the era of antibiotics, and autovaccines are still used to day to treat animal infections.

Indeed they have, and depending what sources you look at they might have been useful, but due to the difficulties in preparing the vaccine it's not suprising that when antibiotics became available (and easy to produce/administer) autovaccines got forgotten about. Not suprising that members are skeptical of course but my own personal opinion is that this is an interesting subject worth investigation.

 

[Alvin2]

I've done a review..
Their results are creditable, their treatment is creditable — their model may not be
It is just an alternative path to the same goal -- changing the bacteria in the body that is causing ME/CFS. They found the bacteria include combinations of ( enterococci, enterobacteria-Escherichia coli, Klebsiella, Proteus, Enterobacteriaceae, Morganella, Acinetobacteria, Hafnia, Seratia, Staphylococcus and Streptococcus ). Instead of using antibiotics, they use vaccines (phages are still a third option).

https://cfsremission.com/2021/06/01/is-me-cfs-a-case-of-cbis/

I'm not buying it. Its barely plausible, never mind credible.
Of course they can convince me with third party replication and treatment in a double blind placebo controlled trial at a legitimate institution.

 

[Hip]

I've done a review..

Quoting @Lassesen blog article review:

A vaccine against a kidney bacteria will also have direct impact on the same bacteria in the gut microbiome. On the flip side, appropriate antibiotics would also impact the same bacteria in the Jadin’s protocol using antibiotics will also impact kidney infections.

Yes, those were my thoughts also: an autovaccine designed to target a urinary tract / kidney infection would also have effects on the same bacteria located on other mucous membranes, such as a SIBO infection in the small intestine, or a bacterial infection in the nasal cavity or sinuses.

One study found 77% of ME/CFS patients have SIBO, and found treatment of the SIBO led to improvements in ME/CFS symptoms. Which makes sense, because just on its own, SIBO can cause a lot of fatigue, and if you have both ME/CFS and SIBO, the SIBO is going to compound the ME/CFS fatigue.

 

[Alvin2]

One study found 77% of ME/CFS patients have SIBO, and found treatment of the SIBO led to improvements in ME/CFS symptoms. Which makes sense, because just on its own, SIBO can cause a lot of fatigue, and if you have both ME/CFS and SIBO, the SIBO is going to compound the ME/CFS fatigue.

Interesting. I wonder if the colonoscopy cleansing solution would give any relief or act as a diagnostic, as a few forum members have said they felt better on it.

 

[Hip]

Interesting webpage about how autovaccines are prepared.

The process looks relatively straightforward: you get a sample of the bacteria from the patient or animal; you culture the bacteria for several weeks in a petri dish; then you heat-kill the bacteria, and prepare a sterile vaccine for injection from it.

 

[Hip]

I wonder if the colonoscopy cleansing solution would give any relief or act as a diagnostic, as a few forum members have said they felt better on it.

Diagnosis of SIBO is usually performed with a hydrogen/methane breath test, which detects the gases that SIBO bacteria release. Although the specificity of current SIBO breath tests are low: 55%, so you can get false negatives.

 

[Hufsamor]

I don’t understand how they get samples from the bacteria?

 

[Alvin2]

Diagnosis of SIBO is usually performed with a hydrogen/methane breath test, which detects the gases that SIBO bacteria release. Although the specificity of current SIBO breath tests are low: 55%, so you can get false negatives.

55% is not very good.
What i meant is that the colonoscopy prep solution cleans out the GI tract, you end up with clear or yellow liquid with likely very little bacteria in it. This seems to give some people noticeable improvement until the bacteria repopulate (or sometimes longer as someone on PR mentioned).

 

[Hip]

What i meant is that the colonoscopy prep solution cleans out the GI tract, you end up with clear or yellow liquid with likely very little bacteria in it.

Yes, I have seen a report of the colonoscopy laxative preparation solution temporarily greatly improving ME/CFS.