hi Civicko -
you will need to enable conversations invites in your profile
are you undergoing the Markov Treatment at the moment ?
Dr Markov CBIS Theory of ME/CFS - General Discussion
- Thread starter Jyoti
- Start date
you will need to enable conversations invites in your profile
are you undergoing the Markov Treatment at the moment ?
What about now?
No, not yet, but I'm inclined to think that I have a streptococous overgrowth so it might be worth trying.
Atlas
"And the last enemy to be destroyed is death."
- Messages
- 142
- Location
- New Zealand
I began the fourth and final 10 injection course within the second 6mo cycle of treatment last week.
The first intradermal gave me a reasonable red inflammatory reaction, but unlike last cycle, the subcuts of this polyvalent vaccine are so far no longer giving me a large red swelling. There is only a barely noticeable invisible swelling and bruise.
Last time this lack of visible reaction only happened on the very last injection (the largest dose). So this progression suggests to me that my body is getting quicker at clearing the antigens. It could also be that it's getting better at ignoring them haha, but one would hope not.
The first intradermal gave me a reasonable red inflammatory reaction, but unlike last cycle, the subcuts of this polyvalent vaccine are so far no longer giving me a large red swelling. There is only a barely noticeable invisible swelling and bruise.
Last time this lack of visible reaction only happened on the very last injection (the largest dose). So this progression suggests to me that my body is getting quicker at clearing the antigens. It could also be that it's getting better at ignoring them haha, but one would hope not.
Last edited:
Dear ME/CFS-patients on PhoenixRising,
Markov clinic, Kiyv, Ukraine, and Dr.-med.Igor Markov inform you that despite the current known events in Ukraine, the remote (per Email/messengers/etc.) ME/CFS-for-CBIS (Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome) full diagnostics and treatment with anti-ME/CFS-CBIS autovaccines, individually for a patient prepared from autostrains of bacteria, isolated&idendified in urine cultured on dip slides, and delivered to a patient,
have been continuing as before.
Please welcome Markov clinic:
www.vitacell.com.ua
admin@vitacell.com.ua
Markov clinic, Kiyv, Ukraine, and Dr.-med.Igor Markov inform you that despite the current known events in Ukraine, the remote (per Email/messengers/etc.) ME/CFS-for-CBIS (Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome) full diagnostics and treatment with anti-ME/CFS-CBIS autovaccines, individually for a patient prepared from autostrains of bacteria, isolated&idendified in urine cultured on dip slides, and delivered to a patient,
have been continuing as before.
Please welcome Markov clinic:
www.vitacell.com.ua
admin@vitacell.com.ua
- Messages
- 44
How are people doing on this treatment? Have we got any concrete results yet?
kewia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 244
Would interest me likewise.
Is there already an overview, who has improved to what extent?
Is there already an overview, who has improved to what extent?
Chronic bacterial intoxication is a posibility I kinda suspect being prevalent in me aswell. So this is kinda interesting.
If its as easy as getting a urine culture and doing an autovaccine From that is doubtful however. What if the bacteria sits Not in the urigential tract?
If its as easy as getting a urine culture and doing an autovaccine From that is doubtful however. What if the bacteria sits Not in the urigential tract?
MonkeyMan
Senior Member
- Messages
- 425
Bumping up this thread here - How are things looking for those who have tried the Markov protocol? Any updates from people who have tried it would be welcome!
Atlas
"And the last enemy to be destroyed is death."
- Messages
- 142
- Location
- New Zealand
@MonkeyMan as far as I know I am the only forum member still actively trying the treatment. Some other members have done a single 6-month cycle but stopped due to various reasons. At least 2 of those had temporary symptom improvements, but no full remissions. However, since the full treatment protocol is usually 4-6 cycles over 2-3 years, I'm hopeful that we just need more people to try for longer.
If there are others who expressed interest in trying the treatment and went ahead but have not posted, I am also interested to hear from them. (Please!
)
...
Here's my update from August which I wrote in the private thread:
Since then I have started the 3rd cycle. No big changes but I did seem to get a decent energy boost for a few days after the most recent injection group. E.g. I found myself able to work on my tax returns for a lot longer than usual, without hitting a brain fog wall. The energy boost has subsided somewhat now after I overdid it :/
If there are others who expressed interest in trying the treatment and went ahead but have not posted, I am also interested to hear from them. (Please!
)...
Here's my update from August which I wrote in the private thread:
Since then I have started the 3rd cycle. No big changes but I did seem to get a decent energy boost for a few days after the most recent injection group. E.g. I found myself able to work on my tax returns for a lot longer than usual, without hitting a brain fog wall. The energy boost has subsided somewhat now after I overdid it :/
Atlas
"And the last enemy to be destroyed is death."
- Messages
- 142
- Location
- New Zealand
(Second part of the update from August)
These are some of the reasons I know the vaccines are acting in a positive way against ME/CFS however:
1. After the 8th polyvalent vaccine in last cycle, I woke in the night and it seemed like all my life memories had come back and I could remember things much more easily. Then I couldn't sleep and the next morning woke up head "hungover" feeling crashed again as usual. Prior to this experience, the same evening, I had experienced diarrhoea and a sense of stomach burning/stomach ache (on the day after that vaccine. The same thing happened last cycle). This ease of memory recall did not return again.
2. The feeling of being able to "see in 3d" the world again returned again for some mornings after the end of treatment, but then went back to how it was before. (To be precise it is not that my eyes changed, I can see in 3d, but brain is sluggish so usually feels derealized). In other words, derealization temporarily improved noticeably. [This happened again in October around the same time I got the "energy boost"]
3. My sense of smell which returned after the previous treatment cycle is still good. My nose is definitely clearer on average than it was before.
These are some of the reasons I know the vaccines are acting in a positive way against ME/CFS however:
1. After the 8th polyvalent vaccine in last cycle, I woke in the night and it seemed like all my life memories had come back and I could remember things much more easily. Then I couldn't sleep and the next morning woke up head "hungover" feeling crashed again as usual. Prior to this experience, the same evening, I had experienced diarrhoea and a sense of stomach burning/stomach ache (on the day after that vaccine. The same thing happened last cycle). This ease of memory recall did not return again.
2. The feeling of being able to "see in 3d" the world again returned again for some mornings after the end of treatment, but then went back to how it was before. (To be precise it is not that my eyes changed, I can see in 3d, but brain is sluggish so usually feels derealized). In other words, derealization temporarily improved noticeably. [This happened again in October around the same time I got the "energy boost"]
3. My sense of smell which returned after the previous treatment cycle is still good. My nose is definitely clearer on average than it was before.
MonkeyMan
Senior Member
- Messages
- 425
Thanks Atlas.
Unfortunately, my conclusion is: Markov's approach is virtually useless, at least for most patients.
Unfortunately, my conclusion is: Markov's approach is virtually useless, at least for most patients.
- Messages
- 82
- Location
- Amsterdam, NL
Maybe it’s just a simple that the auto vaccines create a feverish immune reaction,
That can shortly reverse the low hypometabolic state our mitochondria and immune system are in.
- just like many patients have experienced improvements after a strong immune reaction (high fever) to an infection (Covid, bacteria) or Sometimes the Covid-vaccine
That can shortly reverse the low hypometabolic state our mitochondria and immune system are in.
- just like many patients have experienced improvements after a strong immune reaction (high fever) to an infection (Covid, bacteria) or Sometimes the Covid-vaccine
Last edited:
Atlas
"And the last enemy to be destroyed is death."
- Messages
- 142
- Location
- New Zealand
I have completed the 3rd vaccine cycle in early January. I am now cultivating new cultures both from urine and then from nose/throat.
Here is my update:
The 3rd cycle gave me energy boosts during the vaccination period where I felt considerably more energy than usual, although I was still severe, in bed most of the day, I found:
- more energy to talk — I could now often have 15min-30min and sometimes even longer conversations with my Mum or others without serious deterioration afterwards.
- Felt my voice naturally had energy to speak louder. I.e. I naturally without realising started projecting my voice again in conversations instead of the usual whisper talk that I do
- I found I had energy to sing
- more energy for going to get lunches. I usually roll on a stool to get my lunch now. I just naturally feel hungry to go get my own lunch, and feel enough energy to do it, instead of before always waiting for it to be brought. I even made dinner once, partly standing up (although this caused after effects, but not as severe as I would normally expect).
- I find I have energy to shower sitting down now most days. Showers do not usually make me wiped out for the rest of the day any more.
- Brain fog/cognitive stamina for some time, was considerably improved
Now, these effects started a little during each vaccine course, but most noticeably occurred and the highest energy boost I received was shortly after the nasal bacterial autovaccine (the last one, Staphylococcus haemolyticus 1 from the nose and 2 from urine).
Over time, these benefits declined as I did significantly more than usual and probably overdid it a little, and post-exertional effects declined me, to the point my brain fog was worse again, but when I rest for a day or two it improves and it is still not worse than before I started the last cycle.
My physical (not cognitive) energy is still more on average. (~3 months later)
All this to say, I found a more noticeable positive effect this time, and am hoping to continue treatment soon. Particularly I think the autostrains from nose/urine in the last vaccine seemed particularly noticeable in effect.
(This cycle I took nose/throat swabs to send to the clinic and the autovaccine which included bacteria from my nose seemed to give me the biggest boost)
I would say for 2 months after treatment ended I went up a half level according to the Phoenix Rising severity scale. Presently I'm in a crash and have declined back down about a quarter level.
I say a half level because on the scale I consider 1 to be where I go outside, and on a few of the better days I went outside to rest in the sun. That is not trivial at my level because requires going down and up a few steps and walking around the side of the house, and it did not cause a crash afterwards during those 2 months.
Here is my update:
The 3rd cycle gave me energy boosts during the vaccination period where I felt considerably more energy than usual, although I was still severe, in bed most of the day, I found:
- more energy to talk — I could now often have 15min-30min and sometimes even longer conversations with my Mum or others without serious deterioration afterwards.
- Felt my voice naturally had energy to speak louder. I.e. I naturally without realising started projecting my voice again in conversations instead of the usual whisper talk that I do
- I found I had energy to sing
- more energy for going to get lunches. I usually roll on a stool to get my lunch now. I just naturally feel hungry to go get my own lunch, and feel enough energy to do it, instead of before always waiting for it to be brought. I even made dinner once, partly standing up (although this caused after effects, but not as severe as I would normally expect).
- I find I have energy to shower sitting down now most days. Showers do not usually make me wiped out for the rest of the day any more.
- Brain fog/cognitive stamina for some time, was considerably improved
Now, these effects started a little during each vaccine course, but most noticeably occurred and the highest energy boost I received was shortly after the nasal bacterial autovaccine (the last one, Staphylococcus haemolyticus 1 from the nose and 2 from urine).
Over time, these benefits declined as I did significantly more than usual and probably overdid it a little, and post-exertional effects declined me, to the point my brain fog was worse again, but when I rest for a day or two it improves and it is still not worse than before I started the last cycle.
My physical (not cognitive) energy is still more on average. (~3 months later)
All this to say, I found a more noticeable positive effect this time, and am hoping to continue treatment soon. Particularly I think the autostrains from nose/urine in the last vaccine seemed particularly noticeable in effect.
(This cycle I took nose/throat swabs to send to the clinic and the autovaccine which included bacteria from my nose seemed to give me the biggest boost)
I would say for 2 months after treatment ended I went up a half level according to the Phoenix Rising severity scale. Presently I'm in a crash and have declined back down about a quarter level.
I say a half level because on the scale I consider 1 to be where I go outside, and on a few of the better days I went outside to rest in the sun. That is not trivial at my level because requires going down and up a few steps and walking around the side of the house, and it did not cause a crash afterwards during those 2 months.
Atlas
"And the last enemy to be destroyed is death."
- Messages
- 142
- Location
- New Zealand
I received some new info related to my current prescription and these vaccines in general if anyone is interested:
...
I had sent my latest samples to the Markov clinic and this time they only found Enterococcus Faecalis from urine samples and Staph Aureus in the nose.
Every prior time they found E. Coli in the urine samples, but not this time. They also found Streptococcus last time, but not this time.
1. Despite not finding these two bacteria any longer, Dr. Igor has still prescribed bivalent vaccines containing prebanked pathogenic strains of these bacteria species which were previously identified.
I asked if this was because he suspects these may still be present in the body even though they were not identified in this round of cultures. He confirmed this to be the suspicion.
He says that E. Coli frequently tends to hide "behind" the others, presumably in the biofilm. (I.e. even when not detected it is often identified later once the "front row" of other bacteria are killed off). If I understand correctly he suggests that Streptococci often do the same thing when in the nose. That's why my prescription is to continue to take vaccines made from those bacteria in addition to the autostrains identified.
2. I asked if people have recovered when treated using only their identified autostrains, and he said yes, they did that starting 25 years ago, but about 10 years ago they found it sped up the process significantly when they started adding to the vaccines prebanked strains of the most pathogenic bacteria which had been previously identified (presumably in previous patients).
Since the vaccines consist of antigens from the bacteria, not the whole bacteria, they find that adding the banked strains to the process increases the immunogenicity of the vaccine.
3. I also asked about the two Staphylococcus vaccines that I'm taking and if the Staph component is different in each of them.
The two vaccines are Staphylo-Primavac,
And a Staph-Strep bivalent which also contains my autostrains.
Dr. Markov's reply:
...
I had sent my latest samples to the Markov clinic and this time they only found Enterococcus Faecalis from urine samples and Staph Aureus in the nose.
Every prior time they found E. Coli in the urine samples, but not this time. They also found Streptococcus last time, but not this time.
1. Despite not finding these two bacteria any longer, Dr. Igor has still prescribed bivalent vaccines containing prebanked pathogenic strains of these bacteria species which were previously identified.
I asked if this was because he suspects these may still be present in the body even though they were not identified in this round of cultures. He confirmed this to be the suspicion.
He says that E. Coli frequently tends to hide "behind" the others, presumably in the biofilm. (I.e. even when not detected it is often identified later once the "front row" of other bacteria are killed off). If I understand correctly he suggests that Streptococci often do the same thing when in the nose. That's why my prescription is to continue to take vaccines made from those bacteria in addition to the autostrains identified.
2. I asked if people have recovered when treated using only their identified autostrains, and he said yes, they did that starting 25 years ago, but about 10 years ago they found it sped up the process significantly when they started adding to the vaccines prebanked strains of the most pathogenic bacteria which had been previously identified (presumably in previous patients).
Since the vaccines consist of antigens from the bacteria, not the whole bacteria, they find that adding the banked strains to the process increases the immunogenicity of the vaccine.
3. I also asked about the two Staphylococcus vaccines that I'm taking and if the Staph component is different in each of them.
The two vaccines are Staphylo-Primavac,
And a Staph-Strep bivalent which also contains my autostrains.
Dr. Markov's reply:
Last edited: