Dr Markov CBIS Theory of ME/CFS - General Discussion

[MartinK]

Hi all, thanks for your opinions,
yes, I don't want to rush the BCG, but from what I've noticed so far, a few people have had really good reactions to it - and they're people who have a similar type of ME/CFS to me - which is why I'm hoping the autovaccines will help as well.
@Atlas - you are the first person who have bad reaction, what I know. Interesting...

I did Canephron before treatment for 4 weeks. Didnt notice anything to be honest.
I also have one biofilm breaker same as @Hip ...IHF peptide. But Im little bit scared from it and now I dont want to do any atbx as sepsis prevention. Mainly no atbx during Markov protocol...

Next week I will start second auto-vaccine plan!

 

[MartinK]

Hi all,
last week I started Enteroc-Proteus Urovacc, trying to do subc. in clockwise circle.
Last days I did injection to legs - I would like to compare it with you if you also developed a red swelling there, lasting about 2-3 days.
I hope this is a good response!
Apart from this swelling I don't see any immune reactions but it was only the third dose.

 

[Atlas]

I would like to compare it with you if you also developed a red swelling there, lasting about 2-3 days.

Yes, same as you, red swelling and painful to the touch for about that duration, for every vaccine which contained my autostrains. Size of the swelling varied and the very last injection which was the largest dose ended up having the smallest reaction with no redness at all.

This was one of the early ones, 24h post-injection.

 

[Seadragon]

Histamine rash maybe?

 

[MartinK]

Guys, have you also experienced that in a 0.4 ml autovaccine bottle there is actually 0.6 ml (for example?)
I aspirated all the liquid (I guess I was sorry to use only 0.4 ml), but maybe it was a bad idea?
The reaction, pain and swelling were quite severe yesterday - it must be doing something!

thx! ;-)

 

[Atlas]

I also did the same thing at first @MartinK and injected the full amount in the vial, because it was only 0.1 extra and I thought it possibly was diluted. When I asked the clinic about it I received conflicting messages, I think there must have been an internal miscommunication somewhere along the line.

After clarification, the correct answer was: inject the exact amount written on the vaccine instructions (which is the same as the amount written on the vial).

The vials have extra vaccine in them to allow for different syringe deadspace amounts and perhaps for ease of removing air bubbles without having to save every last drop. But the additional amount, as far as I could tell, is not precise. Dr. Markov's instructions were to inject the exact amount specified on the instructions (any additional amount to be expelled from the syringe).

The reaction, pain and swelling were quite severe yesterday - it must be doing something!

Do your local reactions also make a bruise afterwards for days? The red swellings did that for me, they would change to a yellow bruise and be sore to lie on

 

[MartinK]

Hey @Atlas thank a lot... now I do it correctly, all good!
But...100% same experience with bruises, sore to lie on and mainly - reactions...big inflammation in place of injecting!
I hope its a good sign ;-)

Tomorrow 7th injection...
@Hip you have same experience with autovax?

 

[Hip]

@Hip you have same experience with autovax?

My memory is hazy, but I don't think I got red local reactions with the autovaccine.

But I did get red local reactions about 5 cm in size with the Russian Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine (Prof Gottfries protocol).

Prof Gottfries says that if the local reaction with the Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine is larger than the size of "a child's hand palm" (a child's palm is around 6 cm across I think), then in his clinic, they would not increase the vaccine dose at the next injection the following week, but would keep at the same dose level for two weeks in a row.

But that of course is a different vaccine to the autovaccine.

 

[pattismith]

Urinary Tract Infections Impair Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis​

2022

Simple Summary​

Urinary tract infections are associated with features of cognitive decline and memory deficits, where the underlying correlation or mechanism is still not clear.
In this study, we investigate the effect of urinary tract infections on cognitive functions in rodents and whether it is associated with adult hippocampal neurogenesis, a process that is detrimental for memory formation.
We have shown that urinary tract infection affects the time spent exploring a novel arm in the Y-maze test.
This was accompanied with a decrease in the proliferation of neural stem cells at an early time point post infection and a persistent decrease in neurogenesis at a later time point (34 days).
We also detected decreased levels of neurotrophic factors important for neurogenesis and an elevated expression of interleukin 1β in the hippocampus.
Treatment with either anti-inflammatory drugs or anti-biotics does not recover proliferation of neural stem cells.
Here, we present hippocampal neurogenesis as a possible contributor to cognitive changes associated with urinary tract infections. Given the significant increase in urinary tract infection occurrence, it is important to address some of the detrimental effects that such an infection can have at the level of the brain.

https://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/11/6/891

Interestingly Piroxicam was shown to improve hippocampal function by increasing hippocampal serotonin level....
Piroxicam also has an effect on the bladder wall, I don't know exactely what kind of effect, but it is commonly use to fight Dog Bladder Transitionnal Carcinoma

 

[hb8847]

Been a few years since I was here... but I'm surprised to see this thread it still going! Are people doing Markov's treatment then? Are they having any luck??

 

[datadragon]

Urinary Tract Infections Impair Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis​

2022

NLRP3 inflammasome activation from UTI - The inflammasome-associated proteins caspase-1, caspase-4 and NLRP3 are essential in the host cell response during urinary tract infection (UTI) by regulating IL-1β release. IL-1β was recently shown to be important for the outcome of UTI.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-06052-7
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2019.02020/full
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-78651-1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5890162/

We found that LPS-injected mice displayed long-term depression-like behaviors and recognition memory deficit; elevated expression of NLRP3, ASC, and caspase-1 p10; increased levels of IL-1β, IL-18, and TNFα; decreased levels of IL-10; and increased microglial activation. These effects were blocked by the NLRP3 inflammasome inhibitor Ac-Tyr-Val-Ala-Asp-chloromethylketone. The results demonstrate proof of concept that NLRP3 inflammasome activation contributes to long-term behavioral alterations in LPS-exposed mice, probably through enhanced inflammation, and that NLRP3 inflammasome inhibition might alleviate peripheral and brain inflammation and thereby ameliorate long-term behavioral alterations in LPS-exposed mice. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27923741/

Both insufficient and excessive levels of IL-1β (which is increased after NLRP3 activation) impair the formation of memory indicating that IL-1β is important for normal learning and memory formation and would explain mixed results. The involvement of IL-1 in hippocampal-dependent memory follows an inverted U-shaped pattern, i.e., a slight increase in brain IL-1 levels can improve memory, whereas any deviation from the physiological range, either by further excess elevation in IL-1 levels or by blockade of IL-1 signaling, results in impaired memory https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17976923/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5560336/pdf/12264_2010_Article_6023.pdf

But ME/CFS is usually triggered by a viral infection. So if bacterial dysbiosis and the toxins these bacteria release are the main drivers of ME/CFS, you would need to explain how a virus can cause that dysbiosis.

That can be explained mainly as normal downstream effects of inflammation/infection. The gene Shank3 regulates intestinal barrier function (the gut barrier), and also zinc uptake in the gut. NLRP3 overactivation lowers Shank3 levels. The protein encoded by the SHANK3 gene also turns out is regulated by zinc according to the research.

 

[Wayne]

Urinary Tract Infections Impair Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis​

There's a very good article at EarthClinic entitled The Surprising Health Benefits of Methylene Blue. It has over 200 comments, many by people who've used MB. This LINK will take you to the comments following that article that got the most "loves", or likes as they're usually called. Below is one of those testimonials about UTIs, which I thought it was pretty amazing.

Chronic Bladder Infections
Posted by MHO (Provo, UT) on 03/18/2022

I am an intermittent catheter user, therefore, I have chronic bladder infections. Ever since I began using Methylene Blue I have stopped getting UTIs. I use Methylene Blue 1% solution. The normal dose is 10 drops in water morning and night. I only need 2 drops morning and night. I use a straw to drink it so my teeth won't turn blue. It has the added benefit of stopping my candida symptoms.

Having said this, I am also very careful about what I eat: no sugar or fruit of any kind. I don't use any artificial sweeteners. I avoid wheat and other grains. I eat canned beans, eggs, fish, chicken, vegetables, and brown rice. I have to avoid nuts.

 

[datadragon]

I have chronic bladder infections. Ever since I began using Methylene Blue I have stopped getting UTIs. I use Methylene Blue 1% solution

Thats great Wayne. Methylene blue inhibits the NLRP3 inflammasome activation. By reversing the inflammation you can potentially prevent all the downstream effects. See my last post above about NLRP3 n relation to UTIs. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-12635-6 I had mentioned here https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/me-cfs-and-methylene-blue.90423/post-2438687

 

[datadragon]

Also @Wayne Fructose activates the nucleotide-binding domain-like receptor protein 3 (NLRP3) inflammasome. Sucrose (Table Sugar) is made up of glucose and fructose. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...s-chronic-fatigue-syndrome.90582/post-2442005

High glucose treatment, but not the osmotic control mannitol, induces csGRP78 expression through an ER stress–dependent mechanism (which increases WASF3 levels). There are many 'roads' to increase NLRP3 and/or ER Stress. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6514638/ GRP78 levels were positively correlated with HbA1c and AGEs. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34591271/

Glucose deprivation strongly inhibited IFN-gamma gene expression (increased by ifn-a, heavy exercise), optimal induction of IFN-gamma transcription is a glucose-dependent process. IFN-γ rapidly increases protein synthesis and causes the unfolded protein response (UPR), as evidenced by the increased expression of glucose-regulated protein 78 (GRP78). IFN-y is also upregulated from intensive exercise.
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...s-chronic-fatigue-syndrome.90582/post-2443910

 

[Atlas]

My cycle 2 dipslide bacteria finally arrived after travelling for 61 days, they were still alive.

I think one might have died because they identified an extra Staph one in the photos which didn't show up in the bacteriology. But the main ones are fine and I'm having a separate Staph vacc anyway.

The two main species were the same but had different antibiotic resistance this time. This time, across the 6 dipslides I sent, the same strain of E. Faecalis appeared on every dipslide. (A different strain than last time). Samples were from 5 separate days.

 

[Atlas]

Also, I received new information (I think?) about what happens if you choose to go with vaccines made from prebanked strains according to photos of your dipslides. (For anyone for who shipping the dipslides is too troublesome).

iiuc, they make the corresponding vaccines according to a large variety of banked pathogenic strains known to be problematic, strains from the same species identified in the photos. (Since from the photos it is not possible to know exact strains).

 

[Scotty]

Hello All,
I found out about Dr. Markov through this thread, and after a long wait for dip slides, I managed to to send photos of the bacteria growth to his office yesterday and had a reply by this morning. It seems I have Staphylococcus aureus/haemolyticum and Enterobacteria. I know many are skeptical about this protocol, but I’ve been sick for at least 20 years, and been housebound for the last 4. During that time I’ve tried just about anything that I’ve read about that has helped other ME folks…..some quite dubious…and am ready to jump into this treatment even if it is questionable.
Question: is the Markov tracking spreadsheet still up and running? If so, I would appreciate a link so I can add my info. I’ve scoured the threads trying to relocate the spreadsheet, but have not been successful. I’m very excited and optimistic, and hope to hear how others taking this route to forge a better life for themselves are fairing.

 

[Hip]

Question: is the Markov tracking spreadsheet still up and running?

@Garz is maintaining the spreadsheet.

 

[Garz]

Hello All,
I found out about Dr. Markov through this thread, and after a long wait for dip slides, I managed to to send photos of the bacteria growth to his office yesterday and had a reply by this morning. It seems I have Staphylococcus aureus/haemolyticum and Enterobacteria. I know many are skeptical about this protocol, but I’ve been sick for at least 20 years, and been housebound for the last 4. During that time I’ve tried just about anything that I’ve read about that has helped other ME folks…..some quite dubious…and am ready to jump into this treatment even if it is questionable.
Question: is the Markov tracking spreadsheet still up and running? If so, I would appreciate a link so I can add my info. I’ve scoured the threads trying to relocate the spreadsheet, but have not been successful. I’m very excited and optimistic, and hope to hear how others taking this route to forge a better life for themselves are fairing.

hi Scotty - welcome to the Markov topic

I set up the tracking sheet and continue to support it - will happily add you - the more the merrier !

the members using it decided they would rather have the tracker and any detailed discussion around it as private - or at least members only - so we took that discussion on to a separate thread for those directly involved.
the intention was to update this public thread periodically - i don't think we have done that formally but to be honest there hasn't been very much to update with.
the trial is only has a few members and there have been delays due to war, COVID etc

i will add you to that discussion now - and you will find the live link to the active tracker in the first post. just give me a minute to add a line for you in the tracker sheet itself

if there are any other readers who would like to join please do get in touch ( either just post here in this thread - or drop me or any of the other members a message )

 

[Garz]

I'm having trouble finding how to add a participant to an existing conversation thread ...

i have added people before - but i cant seem to see how now - can someone help me out