Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

[JPV]

I'm pretty sure the corn starch would be eaten by the c. butyricum no matter what kind of corn starch it is,

My question was actually in reference to @ahmo, who has a negative reaction to consuming certain starches, not the bacteria.

 

[ahmo]

Are you are saying that you stopped all maize starch and maize food products, and your skin symptoms disappeared?

Correct. I'd dropped all corn some time before, but didn't know the ingredients in the cytomel. The outbreak stopped when I stopped it.

 

[ahmo]

My question was actually in reference to @ahmo, who has a negative reaction to consuming certain starches, not the bacteria.

My understanding is that once one of the substances that mimic gluten enter the system, my body starts up an inflammatory response. I'm using low dose naltrexone, so presumably I could take the risk, hoping my system can stayoout of the inflammatory zone. However, I'm more inclined to accept that Myarisan is not the product for me, just like other supps I've had to abandon. I'm now rotating 4 probiotics, have been able to add a spoonful of yogurt or sauerkraut a day, adding a few sprigs of parsley from the garden to my juice. I've never felt any significant change, neither in die-off, nor well-being, from probiotics.

http://www.thepaleomom.com/2013/03/...re-eating-gluten-even-after-giving-it-up.html
Essentially, when your body creates antibodies against gluten, those same antibodies also recognize proteins in other foods. When you eat those foods, even though they don’t contain gluten, your body reacts as though they do. You can do a fantastic job of remaining completely gluten-free but still suffer all of the symptoms of gluten consumption—because your body still thinks you are eating gluten....

Understanding that antibodies recognize short sequences of amino acids and not an entire protein is key to understanding the concept of cross-reactivity
So what happens in cross-reactivity? In this case the amino acid sequence that an antibody recognizes is also present in another protein from another food (in the case of molecular mimicry, that sequence is also present is a protein in the human body)

The take home message: depending on exactly what antibody or antibodies your body forms against gluten, it/they may or may not cross-react with other foods. So, not only are you sensitive to gluten, but your body now recognizes non-gluten containing foods as one and the same. Who needs to worry about this? Any of the estimated 20% of people who are gluten intolerant or have celiac disease, i.e., have formed antibodies against gluten.....

 

[ariel]

I've never felt any significant change, neither in die-off, nor well-being, from probiotics.

This is just my take, but I found that the probiotics that I needed the most where ones which produced the strongest reaction. Ones where there was no reaction, essentially did nothing, and didn't adjust the gut flora to a significant degree.
Can you crush the pill and grow it in some kind of milk? Then the amount of cornstarch will be minimal?

Also, again my take, but I wouldn't sell them. Ideally you want to be able to shift the population enough so that at some point you will be able to tolerate a far greater range of things that you are currently allergic to. So at some stage be able to take a little bit of the myirisan.
The difficult thing about this whole process is that when you start to change the gut flora there can be a great deal of discomfort and irritation. Old allergies will flare up as the lymph, liver and kidneys have to deal with lots of gunk being displaced. The key to all of this is managing all the inflammation. Especially as at first tiny amounts will cause huge reactions and you feel like you're taking a million steps backwards.
But again, this is just my experience and please do whatever you feel comfortable with!

 

[Martial]

Does anyone know the difference between the 90 capsules Miyarisen tablets, and the 630? One of them was marked for 12 or so dollars, the other for 16. I thought perhaps the 90 capsules was a mega dose version or something, due to the huge gap in tablets alloted and minimal pricing difference.

 

[ariel]

@ahmo, just my two cents: I developed reactions of the type you're describing to almost all foods including wheat and potatoes after long-term low carbing. The way I was able to get rid of this problem was by modifying the gut with RS and other things. I personally don't believe long-term food avoidance is a viable approach because the immune system just seems to get sensitised to more and more things and you're down to fewer and fewer foods you can eat without reactions.

Totes agree!
Said way more articulately than I can!

 

[Sidereal]

This is just my take, but I found that the probiotics that I needed the most where ones which produced the strongest reaction. Ones where there was no reaction, essentially did nothing, and didn't adjust the gut flora to a significant degree.
Can you crush the pill and grow it in some kind of milk? Then the amount of cornstarch will be minimal?

Also, again my take, but I wouldn't sell them. Ideally you want to be able to shift the population enough so that at some point you will be able to tolerate a far greater range of things that you are currently allergic to. So at some stage be able to take a little bit of the myirisan.
The difficult thing about this whole process is that when you start to change the gut flora there can be a great deal of discomfort and irritation. Old allergies will flare up as the lymph, liver and kidneys have to deal with lots of gunk being displaced. The key to all of this is managing all the inflammation. Especially as at first tiny amounts will cause huge reactions and you feel like you're taking a million steps backwards.
But again, this is just my experience and please do whatever you feel comfortable with!

Agreed. For me it's gone like this with gut modification: no pain no gain. And by pain I mean vicious herx-like reactions.

 

[ahmo]

Can you crush the pill and grow it in some kind of milk? Then the amount of cornstarch will be minimal?

This is a good suggestion. I've been adding various probies to my 24-hr yogurt. This may be the way to introduce these critters. Thx.

Agreed. For me it's gone like this with gut modification: no pain no gain. And by pain I mean vicious herx-like reactions.

Herx-like I can deal with, coffee enemas. It's the gluten irritability I'm very reluctant to introduce into my nervous system.

 

[Gondwanaland]

It's the gluten irritability I'm very reluctant to introduce into my nervous system.

You might be past it already, who knows...

 

[snowathlete]

My understanding is that once one of the substances that mimic gluten enter the system, my body starts up an inflammatory response. I'm using low dose naltrexone, so presumably I could take the risk, hoping my system can stayoout of the inflammatory zone. However, I'm more inclined to accept that Myarisan is not the product for me, just like other supps I've had to abandon. I'm now rotating 4 probiotics, have been able to add a spoonful of yogurt or sauerkraut a day, adding a few sprigs of parsley from the garden to my juice. I've never felt any significant change, neither in die-off, nor well-being, from probiotics.

http://www.thepaleomom.com/2013/03/...re-eating-gluten-even-after-giving-it-up.html
Essentially, when your body creates antibodies against gluten, those same antibodies also recognize proteins in other foods. When you eat those foods, even though they don’t contain gluten, your body reacts as though they do. You can do a fantastic job of remaining completely gluten-free but still suffer all of the symptoms of gluten consumption—because your body still thinks you are eating gluten....

Understanding that antibodies recognize short sequences of amino acids and not an entire protein is key to understanding the concept of cross-reactivity
So what happens in cross-reactivity? In this case the amino acid sequence that an antibody recognizes is also present in another protein from another food (in the case of molecular mimicry, that sequence is also present is a protein in the human body)

The take home message: depending on exactly what antibody or antibodies your body forms against gluten, it/they may or may not cross-react with other foods. So, not only are you sensitive to gluten, but your body now recognizes non-gluten containing foods as one and the same. Who needs to worry about this? Any of the estimated 20% of people who are gluten intolerant or have celiac disease, i.e., have formed antibodies against gluten.....

I've heard this before but always been a bit skeptical of it as an explaination. I don't doubt that the food intollerances occur (I have them myself) but I wonder if something else is going on rather than cross reactivity with gluten sequences.
@Jonathan Edwards - I wonder what you think?

 

[JPV]

Does anyone know the difference between the 90 capsules Miyarisen tablets, and the 630?

The 90 dose package has higher potency tablets. I couldn't tell you exactly how much more potent they are.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I've heard this before but always been a bit skeptical of it as an explaination. I don't doubt that the food intollerances occur (I have them myself) but I wonder if something else is going on rather than cross reactivity with gluten sequences.

I suspect that for me the foods in the cross-reactive list antagonize testosterone.

 

[Asklipia]

The 90 dose package has higher potency tablets. I couldn't tell you exactly how much more potent they are.

Strong Miyarisan has 270 mg of their bacterial mixture for 9 tablets.
Normal Miyarisan has 180 mg of their bacterial mixture for 18 tablets.
1 strong Miyarisan tablet = 3 small Miyarisan tablets.

1 package of 630 small Miyarisan tablets = 2.33 packages of strong Miyarisan tablets.

 

[Asklipia]

I want to report that in the beginning Miyarisan gave me vague stomach feelings once or twice a day, with belching. DH had stomach pains.
This lasted from september 2014 when we started until the end of April 2015. All the time we had been taking 6 small tablets a day, recently 12.
Maybe the move to 12 tablets was decisive?
Maybe the length of time we have been taking it was decisive?
Anyway all is well now!
Good luck to all!

 

[Hip]

This lasted from september 2014 when we started until the end of April 2015. All the time we had been taking 6 small tablets a day, recently 12.

Didn't you say that you started taking Miyarisan in Feb of this year?

 

[Asklipia]

Didn't you say that you started taking Miyarisan in Feb of this year?

We started Sanum end February 2015. see here
We started Miyarisan in September 2014. see here.
Doing a search I realized you had asked me this before and I answered it wrong Sorry!
The correct information is this.

 

[adreno]

Yesterday I found a tick on my arm. At first I thought it was just some dirt sticking to the hairs on my arm, and scratched at it for a while, and tried to pull it off while reading on the computer. After it wouldn't come off I went in the bathroom and saw it was a tick. I removed it with tweezers. The mouth broke off, but I think I got it all out.

We do have Lyme here, so of course I am concerned. I have a headache today, but it may be a coincidence. The bite area is a little red and sore. I'll be on the watchout for any rashes or flu-like symptoms. I think it probably will be a good idea if I don't do any experimenting for a while, as I don't want to confuse some herx reaction with Lyme.

 

[Martial]

Yesterday I found a tick on my arm. At first I thought it was just some dirt sticking to the hairs on my arm, and scratched at it for a while, and tried to pull it off while reading on the computer. After it wouldn't come off I went in the bathroom and saw it was a tick. I removed it with tweezers. The mouth broke off, but I think I got it all out.

We do have Lyme here, so of course I am concerned. I have a headache today, but it may be a coincidence. The bite area is a little red and sore. I'll be on the watchout for any rashes or flu-like symptoms. I think it probably will be a good idea if I don't do any experimenting for a while, as I don't want to confuse some herx reaction with Lyme.

@adreno Kind of a farshot question, but do you still have the tick? If so you can just send it to a lab to be tested. However if you suspect lyme and catch it early, very easy to treat. A couple months of Doxy along with some herbal anti microbials would be sufficient. The herbal anti microbials are for added activity against any possible co infection transmitted. It is only when it goes undiagnosed and goes deep into the system that things get very complicated, and treatment much more prolonged. A bullseye rash would come on a few days later, only in about 50-60% percent of cases though. Acute symptoms from the bite usually happen around two weeks later though.

 

[Sasha]

Hope you'll be OK, @adreno!

I've been taking Miyarisan at 2 tabs/day for the past two days and had thought it wasn't doing anything, but looking at my daily records, for the past two days I've felt too tired to wash/shower either at all or until last thing at night (when I always have an uptick in energy) and for the past two nights I've remembered my dreams, which I never do.

Because I've been extra-tired I've mostly been lying on the sofa watching endless reruns of Police Interceptors and last night I dreamed that I recognised some wanted criminals going into my local Co-op supermarket and dialled 999 for the police, who turned up and carried them out horizontally in leg-cuffs - most satisfying!

Not sure if I should drop to one tablet? Or stick it out at two?

 

[adreno]

@adreno Kind of a farshot question, but do you still have the tick? If so you can just send it to a lab to be tested.

Yes, I put it in the freezer. I wouldn't know where to send it, though. Is there anywhere in Scandinavia?