Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

[ahmo]

I am sorry I suppose the bacteria will eat it, no?

I've never heard of gluten cross-reactivity. Is there any science behind it? Or is it just a sort of dietary fashion?

I don't know whether the bacteria will eat it before it affects me. I can't answer whether it's a *fashion* Hip. I know that until I realized that my standard T3 thyroid replacement contained cornstarch, and quit, I continued having skin outbreaks at base of scalp. When I resumed compounded T3, no more outbreaks. I was also still using sesame tahini at the time, and had to discontinue that, too. My body rejects potatoes, also on the list. Removing gluten was the first thing that shifted my horrifically overactive nervous system. I seem to be one who suffers the full brunt of this gluten problem. I'm also intolerant to iodine, which causes the skin flares in many w/ Hashimoto's. I've got an excellent brand of Himalayan salt I use, but other brands, which include iodine, result in flares by the 2nd or 3rd day.


http://blog.primohealthcoach.com/blog/bid/79586/18-Gluten-Cross-Reactive-Foods

http://www.thepaleomom.com/2013/03/...re-eating-gluten-even-after-giving-it-up.html

 

[Hip]

@ahmo
This idea of gluten cross reacting foods does seem to have some scientific basis: the following paper I think was the origin of this idea: Cross-Reaction between Gliadin and Different Food and Tissue Antigens

However, are you sure that the small amounts of maize in the pills was really the source of your symptoms? Did you ever test to see if you are maize sensitive by eating some cornflour?

I used to be gluten intolerant myself, but never had a problem with anything on your list of gluten cross reacting foods. Interestingly enough, the symptoms of my gluten intolerance, which I had had for many years, disappeared after I developed ME/CFS.

 

[ahmo]

@Hip When I stopped the cornstarch, the outbreak and the feeling of high-pitched CNS stopped. I've given up testing for most things. My tests have pretty much been useless. Even my GP aknowledged that the last visit.

 

[adreno]

I am totally bummed out. My bottle of Miyarisan arrived, and now I see it contains cornstarch, which is gluten cross-reactive. Think I'll have to add this to my pile of things to sell on ebay, if I ever have the brain energy to set such a thing up.

How much do you want for it? I'm sure someone here can take it of your hands.

 

[Sasha]

I've been asked via PM for more info on where I got my Miyarisan that arrived yesterday (I'm in the UK).

I put two orders in - one via US Amazon.com via economy international delivery on 1 May from a seller called 'ILC' in Japan; and one via UK Ebay by expedited delivery on 8 May from 'Nippon-no-iimono'.

One of these arrived yesterday (14 May) from 'JapanOnlineStore.com'. After some detective work, it turns out to be the Ebay purchase.

Six days from Japan - not bad!

 

[wendyh]

I've been asked via PM for more info on where I got my Miyarisan that arrived yesterday (I'm in the UK).

I put two orders in - one via US Amazon.com via economy international delivery on 1 May from a seller called 'ILC' in Japan; and one via UK Ebay by expedited delivery on 8 May from 'Nippon-no-iimono'.

One of these arrived yesterday (14 May) from 'JapanOnlineStore.com'. After some detective work, it turns out to be the Ebay purchase.

Six days from Japan - not bad!

Thank you Sasha

 

[Sasha]

I am totally bummed out. My bottle of Miyarisan arrived, and now I see it contains cornstarch, which is gluten cross-reactive. Think I'll have to add this to my pile of things to sell on ebay, if I ever have the brain energy to set such a thing up.

Bummer.

It's fairly easy to do a 'sell one like this' thing on Ebay. Just find your product on Ebay from any seller, hit that 'sell one like this' button, upload a picture - you don't even have to photograph it yourself. Put 'Miyarisan' into Google, click on 'images' and copy one of them to your computer, then upload it to Ebay.

 

[Sidereal]

@Hip When I stopped the cornstarch, the outbreak and the feeling of high-pitched CNS stopped. I've given up testing for most things. My tests have pretty much been useless. Even my GP aknowledged that the last visit.

Do you get the same reaction to potato starch?

 

[bertiedog]

I have ordered some CB from Japan today through EBay. Look forward to trying it because I am struggling with constipation as I have needed to take some Oregano oil to kill off bad bacteria and yeasts.

If I don't take the Oregano I am not constipated but that doesn't deal with the gut issues which aren't too bad but I know I have too much bad bacteria and yeasts due to low stomach acid.

Thanks for all the info @adreno and everyone for sharing.

Pam

 

[ahmo]

How much do you want for it? I'm sure someone here can take it of your hands.

Australian postage is generally pretty steep. Probably enough to make it not worthwhile to anyone out of the country.

Do you get the same reaction to potato starch?

Every time I've tried potatoes, my body has said no more. I don't go beyond that. I've been very grateful to put some nuts and seeds back into diet, autoimmune items, now tolerable probably due to protiolytic enzyme regimen.

It's fairly easy to do a 'sell one like this' thing on Ebay. Just find your product on Ebay from any seller, hit that 'sell one like this' button, upload a picture - you don't even have to photograph it yourself. Put 'Miyarisan' into Google, click on 'images' and copy one of them to your computer, then upload it to Ebay.

OMG you've just given me an entry point into ebay. This is so great. Managing new technical fields is really an edge for me, makes my brain hurt. This is so.

 

[Sidereal]

@ahmo, just my two cents: I developed reactions of the type you're describing to almost all foods including wheat and potatoes after long-term low carbing. The way I was able to get rid of this problem was by modifying the gut with RS and other things. I personally don't believe long-term food avoidance is a viable approach because the immune system just seems to get sensitised to more and more things and you're down to fewer and fewer foods you can eat without reactions.

 

[mariovitali]

@adreno


This keeps getting better and better :

High amylose resistant starch diet ameliorates oxidative stress, inflammation, and progression of chronic kidney disease.


Inflammation is a major mediator of CKD progression and is partly driven by altered gut microbiome and intestinal barrier disruption, events which are caused by: urea influx in the intestine resulting in dominance of urease-possessing bacteria; disruption of epithelial barrier by urea-derived ammonia leading to endotoxemia and bacterial translocation; and restriction of potassium-rich fruits and vegetables which are common sources of fermentable fiber. Restriction of these foods leads to depletion of bacteria that convert indigestible carbohydrates to short chain fatty acids which are important nutrients for colonocytes and regulatory T lymphocytes. We hypothesized that a high resistant starch diet attenuates CKD progression. Male Sprague Dawley rats were fed a chow containing 0.7% adenine for 2 weeks to induce CKD. Rats were then fed diets supplemented with amylopectin (low-fiber control) or high fermentable fiber (amylose maize resistant starch, HAM-RS2) for 3 weeks. CKD rats consuming low fiber diet exhibited reduced creatinine clearance, interstitial fibrosis, inflammation, tubular damage, activation of NFkB, upregulation of pro-inflammatory, pro-oxidant, and pro-fibrotic molecules; impaired Nrf2 activity, down-regulation of antioxidant enzymes, and disruption of colonic epithelial tight junction. The high resistant starch diet significantly attenuated these abnormalities. Thus high resistant starch diet retards CKD progression and attenuates oxidative stress and inflammation in rats. Future studies are needed to explore the impact of HAM-RS2 in CKD patients.

OTOH I read that RS raises Uric Acid, wouldn't that be a problem?

 

[Sidereal]

OTOH I read that RS raises Uric Acid, wouldn't that be a problem?

Yes, it has caused gout symptoms for some of us on the RS thread.

 

[adreno]

OTOH I read that RS raises Uric Acid, wouldn't that be a problem?

Many with ME seem to have low uric acid levels. If you have tendency towards high levels, you probably shouldn't supplement large doses of RS. But I am not worried that eating a healthy diet, including food items with RS, is a bad thing.

 

[Gondwanaland]

OTOH I read that RS raises Uric Acid, wouldn't that be a problem?

But most people benefit from its anti-oxidant properties. Perhaps I never get sick from having it high.

 

[mariovitali]

Yes, it has caused gout symptoms for some of us on the RS thread.

So it appears to me that the Vehicle with which you raise butyrate (starch) in this case is the one to blame whereas the product of the Vehicle (Butyrate) is beneficial. Very Interesting.

 

[Gondwanaland]

OTOH I read that RS raises Uric Acid,

Do we have any published study for that?

 

[snowathlete]

@snowathlete I'm a complete chocolate addict in that I let myself have small amounts of it daily, and have tried chocolate from all over the world, including ordinary american brands. None of them have any of the taste of butyric acid.

The capsules of actual butyric acid that I bought a few years ago had a very distinct, cheesy smell and taste.

The amount of butyric acid in some kinds of chocolate must be very tiny, unless they are masking the taste somehow?

I think I heard it on a tv program in the last few weeks about how chocolate is made, in the UK.

 

[Hip]

@Hip When I stopped the cornstarch, the outbreak and the feeling of high-pitched CNS stopped. I've given up testing for most things. My tests have pretty much been useless. Even my GP aknowledged that the last visit.

Are you are saying that you stopped all maize starch and maize food products, and your skin symptoms disappeared?

(It's often a good idea to refer to it as maize starch, rather than cornstarch, since corn can be ambiguous; corn can mean the most important cereal of a country or region; for example, in Scotland corn actually means oats).

Do you only have food intolerances to items on your list of gluten cross reactive foods, or do you have other food intolerances as well?

 

[South]

what type of corn starch is it

I'm pretty sure the corn starch would be eaten by the c. butyricum no matter what kind of corn starch it is, because I read a study that c. butyricum uses any starch as its carbon source. (can't find study right now)