Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

[adreno]

Not sure if I should drop to one tablet? Or stick it out at two?

Just stick with two. And get Netflix

 

[Gondwanaland]

I have a headache today, but it may be a coincidence

I had a migraine when I was bitten for the 2nd time in 2004. The rash showed up 48 hours later.

 

[Martial]

Yes, I put it in the freezer. I wouldn't know where to send it, though. Is there anywhere in Scandinavia?

There are a lot of labs you can send it in the United States, I would assume it would be fine to do that. If you choose to go that route. I don't know anywhere specific for Scandinavia but they have a few labs in Europe you can send it as well.

Here are some of them,

http://www.analyticalservices.com/contact-asi.html

http://www.bayarealyme.org/lyme-disease-prevention/tick-testing/ (links several labs, and has advice on storage.)

 

[adreno]

There are a lot of labs you can send it in the United States, I would assume it would be fine to do that. If you choose to go that route. I don't know anywhere specific for Scandinavia but they have a few labs in Europe you can send it as well.

I found some options in Europe, here:

https://ticktalkireland.wordpress.com/lyme-links/tick-testing/

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

http://www.thepaleomom.com/2013/03/...re-eating-gluten-even-after-giving-it-up.html
Essentially, when your body creates antibodies against gluten, those same antibodies also recognize proteins in other foods. When you eat those foods, even though they don’t contain gluten, your body reacts as though they do. You can do a fantastic job of remaining completely gluten-free but still suffer all of the symptoms of gluten consumption—because your body still thinks you are eating gluten....

Understanding that antibodies recognize short sequences of amino acids and not an entire protein is key to understanding the concept of cross-reactivity
So what happens in cross-reactivity? In this case the amino acid sequence that an antibody recognizes is also present in another protein from another food (in the case of molecular mimicry, that sequence is also present is a protein in the human body)

The take home message: depending on exactly what antibody or antibodies your body forms against gluten, it/they may or may not cross-react with other foods. So, not only are you sensitive to gluten, but your body now recognizes non-gluten containing foods as one and the same. Who needs to worry about this? Any of the estimated 20% of people who are gluten intolerant or have celiac disease, i.e., have formed antibodies against gluten.....

I've heard this before but always been a bit skeptical of it as an explaination. I don't doubt that the food intollerances occur (I have them myself) but I wonder if something else is going on rather than cross reactivity with gluten sequences.
@Jonathan Edwards - I wonder what you think?

Poor old paleomom has got her immunology a*** over t** I am afraid.
In gluten sensitivity there are no antibodies against gluten as far as I know. There are T cells reactive to gluten and antibodies to tissue transglutaminase. And tissue transglutaminase looks nothing like gluten, so there are no antibodies to any other food proteins or cross reactivities. Coeliac is actually the neatest demonstration of the redundancy of the mimicry theory. It shows you can get autoantibodies without any mimicry.
Antibodies do not recognise short peptide sequences, they recognise shaped patches on the outside of whole antigens - that may be partly formed by several parts of the protein or even more than one protein.
A lot of immunologists believe that there is cross reactivity amongst T cells recognising processed peptides but the embarrassing thing is that nobody ever found any as far as I know. But even if there was a case of cross reactivity I am afraid paleomom is talking through her tea cosy.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Yes, it has caused gout symptoms for some of us on the RS thread.

Sid, I know you will roll your eyes but would you please make a blog post with a list of what helped and what was detrimental? (under the perspective of improving gut being a gout sufferer)

I wonder if Boswellia helps with uric acid specifically?

I will have to keep my CB once weekly for now. Yesterday I took my 2nd tab on top of interminable mistakes in food choices Luckily I took a bicarb bath to close the day... This morning I woke up with so much (gouty) pain...

I am dosing magnesium now, being careful for not depleting my copper again...

@Asklipia I am finding the effects of CB very similar to K2-MK4, but milder.

The pain is a little bit different - with K2 I believe it was real painful and long lasting bone (?) pain, while CB is definetely urate crystals. The mood was excellent with K2, while with CB it is subtly improved.

It is interesting how low testosterone and low bone density are linked , and how K2 improves both testosterone and bone rebuilding. Perhaps the mechanism is via testosterone?

So my plans are to take my old probx (rhamnosus, reuterii, bifidum) every other day during the week and on Fri or Sat take the CB and suffer during the weekends

 

[Gondwanaland]

This is a good suggestion. I've been adding various probies to my 24-hr yogurt. This may be the way to introduce these critters. Thx.

Ahmo be careful, B2 raises uric acid and CB as well... I wonder if B6 would be a good antidote?

 

[ahmo]

Ahmo be careful, B2 raises uric acid and CB as well... I wonder if B6 would be a good antidote?

Are you referring to the FMN I'm taking? Are you saying B2 raises CB, that CB raise uric acid? Do we normally have some CB in our systems? I'd have to review the whole thread to try to answer this. Also, since starting the FMN (B2), my need for butyrate has decreased significantly.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Are you referring to the FMN I'm taking? Are you saying B2 raises CB, that CB raise uric acid? Do we normally have some CB in our systems? I'd have to review the whole thread to try to answer this.

Sorry, I meant "and CB does it as well", both raise UA

Also, since starting the FMN (B2), my need for butyrate has decreased significantly.

Well, CB will give you more butyrate.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Do you guys want an easy laugh?

The list of restricted foods included the following:

• Beer and other alcoholic beverages
• Organ meats, such as liver, kidney, heart and gizzard
• Poultry, especially goose
• Red meat
• Seafood
• Sweetbread, a food made from animal glands
• Wild game
• Asparagus
• Cauliflower
• Dried beans and lentils
• Green peas
• Mushrooms
• Spinach

From these 13 foods I had 7 yesterday + 1 tab Miyarisan

 

[Martial]

Poor old paleomom has got her immunology a*** over t** I am afraid.
In gluten sensitivity there are no antibodies against gluten as far as I know. There are T cells reactive to gluten and antibodies to tissue transglutaminase. And tissue transglutaminase looks nothing like gluten, so there are no antibodies to any other food proteins or cross reactivities. Coeliac is actually the neatest demonstration of the redundancy of the mimicry theory. It shows you can get autoantibodies without any mimicry.
Antibodies do not recognise short peptide sequences, they recognise shaped patches on the outside of whole antigens - that may be partly formed by several parts of the protein or even more than one protein.
A lot of immunologists believe that there is cross reactivity amongst T cells recognising processed peptides but the embarrassing thing is that nobody ever found any as far as I know. But even if there was a case of cross reactivity I am afraid paleomom is talking through her tea cosy.

Yes, it is poor science in the OP site link. However it is pretty well known that some small amount of Celiac patients do react to certain types of oats, and corn, when taken in higher doses of total dietary intake for some reason or other.

 

[Asklipia]

@Asklipia I am finding the effects of CB very similar to K2-MK4, but milder.

So my plans are to take my old probx (rhamnosus, reuterii, bifidum) every other day during the week and on Fri or Sat take the CB and suffer during the weekends

I had also noticed that CB has the same effects as vit K, and I suppose it is producing vit K in the gut! I suppose this is what butyrate is about.
As to suffering during the week-ends, speak to me… I'll keep you company with my Exmykehl.

 

[anne_likes_red]

I'm pretty sure the corn starch would be eaten by the c. butyricum no matter what kind of corn starch it is, because I read a study that c. butyricum uses any starch as its carbon source. (can't find study right now)

Fermented maize (like 'Kenkey' in Ghana) fermented in the traditional manner (no innoculant or starter) has C Butyricum occuring naturally in it. Corn starch seems to be a well planned additive.

FWIW I get indigestion from most corn products (eg: corn chips) but I've had no issues like that with the Miyarisan.

 

[Asklipia]

FWIW I get indigestion from most corn products (eg: corn chips) but I've had no issues like that with the Miyarisan.

In the beginning we had reactions to arepas, and now we have them once a week, either dipped in guacamole (mashed avocados + lots of garlic + one green chilli + some real sheep yogurt + lemon juice + salt + white pepper + a dash of olive oil) or spread with fresh butter mixed with garlic and coriander leaves + salt (crush with a fork when butter is soft then leave a day in the fridge so that all flavours are mixed and the garlic can do its work).

Followed by a handful of Miyarisan.
Enjoy!

 

[Sasha]

Urgh... Day 3 today and only took one tablet instead of two... still feel like

Not sure if it's coincidence but I'm getting the impression it's easy for some of us to overdo it on this stuff.

 

[adreno]

Not sure if it's coincidence but I'm getting the impression it's easy for some of us to overdo it on this stuff.

Yeah, this stuff Is more powerful than you'd think.

 

[Sushi]

Waiting.....

 

[Sidereal]

Sid, I know you will roll your eyes but would you please make a blog post with a list of what helped and what was detrimental? (under the perspective of improving gut being a gout sufferer)

I wonder if Boswellia helps with uric acid specifically?

Boswellia is an anti-inflammatory. I don't think it lowers uric acid, not sure. Grape seed extract seems to help gout but like any COX inhibitor it shreds my stomach. The joint pain thing from prebiotics is a huge roadblock to successful treatment. If brown algae, phytoplankton, XOS and glucomannan didn't cause extreme joint pain and herpes reactivations I don't think I would have ME/CFS any longer since they seem to target every symptom I have, even symptoms I didn't think were related to ME like tartar on teeth or female hormonal issues. I haven't figured out how to get rid of the joint issue and I doubt I ever will as it's simply beyond my analytical capacity. It's like trying to solve an equation with a thousand unknown variables.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Boswellia is an anti-inflammatory

With what kind of inflammation does it help?

Grape seed extract seems to help gout

I don't tolerate it well. It is a bit like citrate, gives me tinnitus. BTW whenever there is too much uric acid there is tinnitus for me. I have been taking grape juice today to cure my uric acid hangover Although when I tried Grape Seed Extract I was titrating down my SSRI, so I might try it again now.

Yesterday it took another bicarb bath (2 evenings in a row) with extra bicarb and took a capsule of my regular probx but with increased reuterii and woke up 80% better today

BTW how do you react to copper?

 

[Martial]

Waiting.....
View attachment 11122

Haha me too, it says delivery will be between June 17-and July 15. :O