Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

[snowathlete]

What butyric acid tastes like

It's the source of that unique taste you find in American chocolate which has butyric acid in it because of the way they produce their chocolate.

 

[snowathlete]

What an interesting experiment you did!

I can't have dairy but I'm glad it went down the hatch after some quinoa and chicken.

if you can tollerate coconut milk/cream then you should be able to use that. I did this in the past with mutaflor.

 

[Sasha]

if you can tollerate coconut milk/cream then you should be able to use that. I did this in the past with mutaflor.

I seem to be OK with the coconut water but made myself really ill with coconut meat last year for several months until I discovered what was giving me the problem. Coconut stuff should come with some warnings!

 

[Sasha]

My expectation of being cured by dinnertime hasn't been meet (well, 45 mins to go) so I'll be having a second tablet today.

So far, nothing good, nothing bad...

 

[JPV]

My expectation of being cured by dinnertime hasn't been meet (well, 45 mins to go) so I'll be having a second tablet today.

I've been taking it for almost a month now and have only seen minor, but clear, improvements in some symptoms. That's enough to keep me motivated to continue with it.

@adreno's been doing it for a few months now so it would be great to get some input about the rate at which things improved for him. I have a feeling, from some things he's mentioned, that he didn't see immediate results either.

I don't think it's realistic to expect this treatment to be some sort of panacea but I do think it's definitely an important part of the overall equation.

 

[adreno]

I did start to improve rather quickly, probably within the first week. Am I still improving? I think so, although at this point it very slow and subtle. Anyway, at three tabs a day, I'm still only on 1/6 the regular dose.

 

[JPV]

Anyway, at three tabs a day, I'm still only on 1/6 the regular dose.

As I mentioned before, since you're taking RS with the Miyarisan, the recommended dose may not really apply. I'm sure the RS is making it much more effective than it would be on it's own. Plus I think it's really marketed as an intervention for temporary stomach problems. The directions most likely reflect that usage scenario.

 

[Scarecrow]

It's the source of that unique taste you find in American chocolate which has butyric acid in it because of the way they produce their chocolate.

 

[South]

@snowathlete I'm a complete chocolate addict in that I let myself have small amounts of it daily, and have tried chocolate from all over the world, including ordinary american brands. None of them have any of the taste of butyric acid.

The capsules of actual butyric acid that I bought a few years ago had a very distinct, cheesy smell and taste.

The amount of butyric acid in some kinds of chocolate must be very tiny, unless they are masking the taste somehow?

 

[JPV]

Dark May Be King, but Milk Chocolate Makes a Move (The New York Times)

Everywhere but at home, American milk chocolate — specifically Hershey’s — is known for its tangy or sour flavor, produced by the use of milk that Mr. Landuyt refers to as “acidified.” Although Hershey’s process has never been made public (and a spokeswoman declined to comment on its techniques), experts speculate that Hershey’s puts its milk through controlled lipolysis, a process by which the fatty acids in the milk begin to break down.

This produces butyric acid, also found in Parmesan cheese and the spit-up of babies; other chocolate manufacturers now simply add butyric acid to their milk chocolates. It has a distinctive tang that Americans have grown accustomed to and now expect in chocolate. “I can’t think of any other reason why people would like it,” said Mr. Whinney, of Theo Chocolate.

 

[Sasha]

Must admit that when I went to the US donkey's years ago and had chocolate, I couldn't recognise it as chocolate. It was absolutely nothing like British chocolate.

 

[Gondwanaland]

made myself really ill with coconut meat last year for several months until I discovered what was giving me the problem. Coconut stuff should come with some warnings!

Me too

So my update:

Yesterday I took 1 tab in the late afternoon and had a sneeze attack. the thing evolved to a mild throat inflammation. I feel something like a cold sore on the right adenoid. I sprayed propolis, which didn't seem to help.

Also an old pressure/discomfort is back at my gum, where the upper right wisdom tooth was supposed to be. I never had the upper wisdom teeth, but when my lower ones came out I used to have the same sensation for my "ghost" upper ones.

When I went to bed and was almost asleep I had a weird, unusual startle from a hallucination which I can't remember what it was.

It seems my sleep pattern of sad adrenals was unaltered, and when I slept again this morning at 7AM I had a very uncomfortable dream that the ceiling of my bedroom was swollen with humidity and mold (it is not and will never be, since it faces West).

Ever since I took a lot of magnesium last year I can remember my dreams, and they are neither bad or good, but interesting and entertaining. So this dream is very unusual for me. Perhaps CB affects the dreams like LDN (like anti-inflammatories?)

I am not sure if I should take CB daily at this moment or if I should take it like I usually take probx, every other day. Also not sure what's the best time of the day to take it - it seems that after dinner it will cause me more uncomfortable dreams. If anyone has an opinion about it, I would love to hear it.

No changes in the bowel front (still constipated).

 

[ahmo]

@Gondwanaland Thanks for the image!

 

[Gondwanaland]

I also wonder if I should alternate it with another probx I took once last week which made me sleep deeply:
L. rhamnosus , B. bifidum , L. reuterii
Do you guys see any benefit from alternating them?

 

[ahmo]

I am totally bummed out. My bottle of Miyarisan arrived, and now I see it contains cornstarch, which is gluten cross-reactive. Think I'll have to add this to my pile of things to sell on ebay, if I ever have the brain energy to set such a thing up.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I am totally bummed out. My bottle of Miyarisan arrived, and now I see it contains cornstarch, which is gluten cross-reactive. Think I'll have to add this to my pile of things to sell on ebay, if I ever have the brain energy to set such a thing up.

I am sorry I suppose the bacteria will eat it, no?

 

[JPV]

Do you guys see any benefit from alternate them?

Bear in mind that I'm no expert in this field, but If you tolerate those strains I don't see anything wrong with alternating them with CB. There seems to be some contradictory information but, from what I gather, a certain amount of gut bacteria diversity is generally seen as beneficial.

Ultimately, it's really hard to say for sure. There's so little solid information on any of this. We're kinda on the cutting edge here, brought about by desperation and lack of effective alternatives, so most of us are just stuck doing N=1 experiments and sharing results with others.

I'm willing to take a certain amount of risk for myself but I always worry about making recommendations for others. There are so many variables and there are clearly sub groups that often have negative responses to treatments that benefit others.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Thanks, @JPV
I will skip probx today. I feel inflammation increasing and tomorrow I have a full day, so I don't want to worsen my throat infection just today.

 

[JPV]

I am sorry I suppose the bacteria will eat it, no?

Yeah, I'm assuming that it's there as a prebiotic. I guess the question is, what type of corn starch is it? Different forms seem to have different RS qualities. Sounds like regular corn starch is mostly RS, as long as you don't cook it, but there's a small amount of it that's digestible, even uncooked...

Is corn starch a resistant starch?

Yes. High amylose corn starches are resistant starches that are not digested.

Let me clarify. Most corn starch comes from dent corn and is highly digestible. Cornstarch is nothing more than chains of glucose. Long, linear chains are called amylose and highly branched, tree-like chains are called amylopectin. Regular corn has about 70-75% amylopectin and 25-30% amylose. Raw, uncooked regular cornstarch contains a lot of resistant starch, but once you cook it, it becomes highly digested.

In contrast, some corn is naturally rich in amylose and contains about 70-75% amylose and only 25-30% amylopectin. The gelatinization temperature of high amylose corn is higher than most baking - so it retains its resistant starch content through baking. It is possible to blast apart high amylose cornstarch through cereal manufacturing or retort processing.

Natural, high amylose resistant cornstarch has been available for many years (Hi-maize brand name) and researchers have been investigating its health properties. To date, more than 70 published human clinical trials have been published in the peer-reviewed scientific literature showing that high amylose resistant corn starch increases satiety so that you can eat less food without feeling hungry, improves insulin sensitivity, shifts your metabolism to burning more fat instead of carbohydrates as energy, and promotes a healthy digestive system.

High amylose resistant corn starch is a specialty starch. The vast majority of cornstarch is NOT resistant starch. You have to look for the specialty hybrid to get the resistant starch benefits.

 

[Hip]

it contains cornstarch, which is gluten cross-reactive

I've never heard of gluten cross-reactivity. Is there any science behind it? Or is it just a sort of dietary fashion?