Carnivore Diet

[GreenEdge]

Salt
Another thing I've noticed is I'm using less and less salt, or none at all. Last night I used no salt, but towards the end of the meal, I thought* I wanted some, so I added a little. Yuk! It took away the flavors I was experiencing.

* I guess because I'd thought about it - an example of over thinking getting in the way of healing.

I'm finding the hardest thing to learn is to not think and just do what comes naturally. When you think about it, no other animal regularly adds salt to their meals. However, many land animals will seek it out occasionally (if their diet lacks salt) and they will walk great lengths to get it.

HUNGER FOR SALT FOUND TO BE POWERFUL INSTINCT
The human hunger for salt, that bane of modern nutritionists, is not just a quirk of habit or upbringing, wide- ranging studies show. Instead it appears to be a deep-seated biological drive as fundamental and almost as powerful as those of thirst, sex and maternal behavior...
''It is no accident that salt is one of the four primary elements of taste,'' said Dr. Derek Denton

I wonder if the push to make us consume less salt is a ploy by the food industry to make us eat more as they know (that when restricted) the drive to get it is strong. On the other had, most processed foods have added sugar, salt and vegetable oils. - the foods they want us to eat.

I think the biggest advantage of carnivore is the elimination of addictive food substances that fool your senses and control your behavior. You can't trust your senses until you eliminate them all.

Relearning to eat instinctively (like a toddler or small child) is challenging but will be worth the effort, as only then is good health sure to materialize.

 

[GreenEdge]

Manufactured Citric Acid
This appears to be extremely rare. A toxicity report in response to 4 reported cases. - Link in PubMed quote below.

I've was sick with diarrhea these last 4 days. I think I would have gotten over it much faster if I hadn't tried replacing lost electrolytes. 3 times I tried one Electrolyte tablet dissolved in half a glass of water and it really hurt my stomach and entire digestion tract causing muscle tightening. It happened every time and almost instantly, so I know it was the Electrolyte tablet. I was fine with plain water. I checked the ingredients of Electrolyte and the only thing that raised any suspicion was Citric Acid.

Google said no-one is allergic to citric acid, but then I found this:

Potential role of the common food additive manufactured citric acid in eliciting significant inflammatory reactions contributing to serious disease states: A series of four case reports
Manufactured citric acid (MCA) is a ubiquitous substance and one of the most common food additives in the world. Approximately 99% of the world production of MCA is through microbial processes using predominantly a mutant strain of the black mold Aspergillus niger [1]. This method has been the industry standard for production of MCA since 1919, long before the FDA’s involvement in evaluating food additives. When the FDA adopted the Food Additives Amendment in 1958, Congress excluded from the definition of Food Additive the common food ingredients in use before 1958, including MCA.

The molecular formula of the natural citric acid obtained from lemons and limes and that of MCA is the same, C6H8O7. However, the potential presence of impurities or fragments from the Aspergillus niger in MCA is a significant difference that may trigger deleterious effects when ingested.

I know I'm allergic to Penecilin, so I checked whether the black mound was related to Penecilin and found this "A number of Aspergillus species have been shown to produce penicillin."

Now, I've consumed those tablets before and I've eaten processed foods. So what has changed?

I've been almost following the ultimate elimination 'Lion' diet of beef, lamb and occasional bacon, eggs and home made coconut yogurt. What I have found lately is: now if I eat something my body doesn't like, it really lets me know.

At some point I'm going to have to retest Electrolyte, just in case the reaction was to food and not specifically an ingredient in Electrolyte. If it turns out to be true, then I'll have the tablets analysed to confirm my suspicions and if possible check for contaminants.

 

[Nord Wolf]

Years ago I started the keto diet. I was mostly eating eat and vegetables anyway, so the full transition was pretty easy. I hooked up with a blood type doctor around that time from the D'adamo institute. I was told the diet I was on was perfect for me and I should add organic almond butter daily. So every day I would pound meat and fat and vegetables. Eventually over time symptoms started in, slowly, but noticeably. I figured they must be from something other than my diet. The blood type docs said it was normal and would pass. It didn't.

I moved toward the Ray Peat diet and followed that for many years. At first I felt good on it, but eventually things started sliding downhill. I had testing done and my thyroid was crashing. My endocrinologist said that can happen on heavy protein and fat diets for some people. Eventually when symptoms continued to worsen I had the full gambit of digestive allergy testing done, and found out I was highly allergic to all red meat, almonds, eggs (which I used to eat like candy), and dairy. Red meat and almonds were what the blood type docs told me to eat most!

After going through nasty detox from avoiding all foods I was allergic to, I started in on the all meat and fat diet again, but with white meats instead. I was still crashing and having many other symptoms. Finally I found a solid group of docs who helped me adjust my diet based upon up to date allergy testing. This included meats, fats, veggies, fruits, nuts, rice, and other quality carbs. In about 8 months all those symptoms disappeared, my digestive system started working again and my system cleared itself up.

I know the keto diet and carnivore diet works great for some, but for me it trashed my digestive system and almost flatlined my thyroid. Today I still eat a lot of organic locally raised meat and good quality fats, but I mix them with high quality grains, veggies and fruits as well. Diet is a tricky thing because it is so unique for everyone. I'm surprised any of us ever find a solid diet that fits us best... as we are always changing, and these miserable health complications all of us have here love to throw oddball wrenches into the works.

A new member, Tomluc states he follows a carnigenic diet and it does him wonders. He might be a good brain to pick on the subject.

 

[GreenEdge]

Since health is so important, I thought this might be of interest to many of us.

The US Dietary Guidelines that many countries have adopted including Australia are based on the Diet Heart Hypothesis that started the saturated fat demonizing that began with the release of the 1977 US Dietary Guidelines. An investigative journalist Nina Teicholz, after a decade of research published a book in 2002. Since then many high quality RCT scientific studies have retested old beliefs and they often show no association or disprove the current dogma. Since these studies don’t align with the current dogma, they are never included as the basis for our Dietary Guidelines. Instead our guidelines are 85% based on Epidemiology – an unreliable form of evidence that should only be used when higher levels of evidence don’t exist.

Here is a video presentation of her findings:
Big Fat Nutrition Policy | Nina Teicholz (1:20:18)

 

[GreenEdge]

Last night, I had a near death experience - I chose to live.

Everyday, I notice my brain is working better, like I get firmware updates every night.
Everyday, I notice I do or say something that's neurotypical (non-autistic), like my autism is disappearing.

I'd like to give a sincere apology to anyone I've inadvertently upset since I joined. It was without intention; accidental. With autism the brain is very slow socially, so I make mistakes too often to be excused.

Here's a joke that someone with autism might not get:

As I put my car in reverse, I thought to myself...
“This takes me back.”

 

[GreenEdge]

Last night, I had a near death experience - I chose to live.

Damn it!

I'm sorry you guys have to put up with me.
I guess the more savvy ones would have me blocked by now.
I'm so sorry I keep editing posts long after publishing.
My brain works so slow, I don't see what I have done until sometime later.
I'm sorry I don't notice "how shit my English language is" until sometime later.

 

[GreenEdge]

In this video Rick Rodriguez shares much wisdom gained from his unique life experience...

 

[GreenEdge]

What I've Learned
I feel best when eating One Meal A Day (OMAD) - I eat OMAD to maintain ketosis - I have no hunger, I eat everyday and I stay in ketosis.

After a heavy dose of exercise, I will want to eat more often, like 2-4 times a day. <- Exercise stimulates appetite. After exercise, over eating promotes growth. Some is good, since growth mode rebuilds muscle. Just be careful to remain in ketosis (monitor using Breathalyzer), because (if not ketogenic) overeating can become fat accumulation.

I might deliberately accumulate fat to prepare for a long water only fast - to give my leaky gut time to heal and to stimulate autophagy, a process that helps your body break down and recycle old parts of your cells (1, 2).

Try to mimic the nature of ancient humans by eating less often and drinking only water (and only between meals).

Most people starting a carnivore diet will within the first week, switch to eating twice a day (2MAD or TMAD). I would suggest sticking to 2MAD for at least a month, before moving those meals closer and closer together until they become one. At first (until I got used to it) I experienced hunger in the last few hours before my next meal each day. This stimulates production of stomach acid and prompts you to hunt for your next meal. <- mimicking nature.

 

[GreenEdge]

I tried carnivore for a while using just beef mince, butter and diet coke (for digestion) I believe. My gastroparesis was worse on this as expected but the diet itself was awful in the sense that I had to add ketchup after 1-2months and after 3-4 months I felt like throwing up at the smell of beef mince so I abandoned it.
I didn't notice anything symptoms wise that I wouldn't also get with just very low carb.

With mince, the fat and water leaches out while cooking. Some fat and moisture is necessary to ensure that meat is enjoyed when eaten, so there's a fine line between not cooked properly and over cooked. I press it into a burger patty and fry on low heat (simmer) so that it cooks through without burning it. If you must eat mince, serving it with a garnish of butter or cheese will help add fat and flavor. However, cheese is a problem for most people because it's too tempting leading to other foods containing carbs and before you know it you're no longer in ketosis.

Fat is very important: Too little - I will get constipated. Too much - I will get overly soft stools.
I find just buying the fattier cuts of meat gives me the right amount to stay regular - constipation is now solved. My stools are skinny and easily passed, but if I'm a bit stressed, I will need to push extra hard. If I haven't been in a while it's because I'm dehydrated, and is easily solved by sipping hot water.

I have learnt from experience that too much liquid fat will go through me too quickly (before bile has time to break it down) causing diarrhea. I recently tried eating butter as a snack, it tastes good but I had a slight upset stomach afterwards - maybe too much liquid fat? Sometime in the future, I'll try it as a garnish on salmon or mince.

 

[GreenEdge]

I think the best advice is eat according to taste (eg. add salt according to taste).

However, before you can trust your senses, first you need to end food cravings.
Many processed foods are designed to be addictive, so you will consume more.
If you eat sweet flavors you will desire sweet flavors and make unhealthy choices.

Coke is loaded with a sweetener. Yet it doesn't taste sweet, so without that sweetener it must be bitter?

If bitter - that's my body telling me not to eat it.
If sweet - that's my body telling me it's good.
If it doesn't taste good anymore - that's my body telling me it doesn't want anymore.

 

[GreenEdge]

I think the diet would be much better for me to give a proper run if I had access to cheap meat that was soft and easy to digest. Beef mince is difficult.

The Spider (aka Oyster) Steak is an incredibly prized steak taken from the inside hip, so there are only two per cow. It gets its name from the web of intramuscular fat. Being a lesser known steak it's usually as cheap as chuck or rump. I only buy the cheaper cuts and always cook on low heat.

To maintain tenderness, I aim for rare, or medium-rare.

Behavioral Characteristics and Self-Reported Health Status among 2029 Adults Consuming a “Carnivore Diet”
Generally, more participants reported choosing cuts of meat with high (61%) or moderate (37%) fat content as opposed to lean cuts (2%). Seventy-six percent reported a preference for consuming meat at raw, rare, or medium-rare doneness.

I find the easiest meal to digest is bacon and eggs. This could be due to the fat content or because I only ever have it as a snack (1 slice of streaky bacon and 2 eggs).

 

[sb4]

I see. I get pretty much all my food from Aldi or Asda, so not sure about getting spider steak, does sound nice though.

On another previous attempt at carnivore I bought an air fryer and tried cooking fatty beef steaks at various speeds and temperatures however I could never get it to be soft and easy to digest. Always sits in my stomach. I found pork is slightly better. There was a good 1/2 year period where I used the air fryer at least once per day for steak yet couldn't get it right. That was when steak was affordable, now with the food price increases I must look else where.

I tried steak rare at a pub about half a year ago and it didn't work out too well. I ended up being stuck for ages chewing a massive bolus of food that just wouldn't break up. In the end I had to spit it out. Seems eating rare you need to swallow large chunks but this will be a problem for my slow emptying stomach.

Another issue I have which is quite unique to me is that I have developed an aversion to salt along with this illness. It's usually the opposite in POTS patients but something else is going on with me. This is an issue cause I used to eat salami at work and this would seem to be perfect for carnivore with the fat content being greater than the protein but I can't do that no more. Same with bacon.

The issue with coke and other fizzy drinks is that they help my digestion wheras water does the opposite. I think it's the acidity.

I have occasionally eaten beef at restaraunts where it is super soft and tasty and crumbles in your mouth. This kind of thing I would have no issue with eating daily but I don't know what meat to use and how to cook it. I have messed around with slow cookers a lot too trying to get it to work but never happens for me.

How big are your improvements from the carnivore diet? @GreenEdge

 

[GreenEdge]

I see. I get pretty much all my food from Aldi or Asda, so not sure about getting spider steak, does sound nice though.

On another previous attempt at carnivore I bought an air fryer and tried cooking fatty beef steaks at various speeds and temperatures however I could never get it to be soft and easy to digest. Always sits in my stomach. I found pork is slightly better. There was a good 1/2 year period where I used the air fryer at least once per day for steak yet couldn't get it right. That was when steak was affordable, now with the food price increases I must look else where.

This YouTuber has published many videos on cooking using an air fryer.

I tried steak rare at a pub about half a year ago and it didn't work out too well. I ended up being stuck for ages chewing a massive bolus of food that just wouldn't break up. In the end I had to spit it out. Seems eating rare you need to swallow large chunks but this will be a problem for my slow emptying stomach.

I have been cooking rare for last 2 weeks and I'm finding exactly that.

Another issue I have which is quite unique to me is that I have developed an aversion to salt along with this illness.

I rarely add salt now, but when I do, I use iodized salt to make sure I'm getting enough iodine.

The issue with coke and other fizzy drinks is that they help my digestion whereas water does the opposite. I think it's the acidity.

I try to consume all my water mostly between meals because drinking at meal time dilutes the acidity of my stomach, slowing digestion.

 

[sb4]

Interesting watching the steak cooked from frozen in the air fryer. Wouldn't mind trying it if my air fryer still worked.

I could do with losing some weight. I wonder if the improved brain health is just the same as ketosis?

 

[GreenEdge]

I wonder if the improved brain health is just the same as ketosis?

I did keto for about 5 years before going carnivore. Yes, keto did help and carnivore has taken it to another level.

 

[GreenEdge]

Our skin is a good indicator of overall health. Our digestive tract is skin. Skin protects us from external threats.

Taking the supplement Hyaluronic Acid improves skin health and signs of aging.
See: Hyaluronic Acid Reversed Skin Aging in New Study!

 

[GreenEdge]

There are many examples of ketovore (= carnivore + keto diet) curing cancer, ms and mental health:

(5:39)

 

[GreenEdge]

GreenEdge, curious if you think this diet is supposed to be good for people with CFS?

Why aren't there more cases of it curing ME/CFS? After all, there are 25 million of us worldwide.
I could only find 3 ME/CFS cases on YouTube:

1. Mikhaila Peterson | TEDx Wouldn't Post This...
   • Joe Rogan - Mikhaila Peterson's Carnivore Diet Fixed Her Arthritis
   • Joe Rogan - Jordan Peterson's Carnivore Diet Cured His Depression?
2. Ribeye Rach | Why I Started The Carnivore Diet | Lyme Disease, POTS, Chiari, Intracranial Hypertension
   • Ribeye Rach | Carnivore Diet 8 MONTH Update | Healing from severe chronic illness
3. MUNASKIPS | 14 Days on CARNIVORE DIET Changed My Life | Fat Loss, Chronic Fatigue, Lyme Disease

Maybe there are just many people trialing the keto/carnivore life style.
To be able to do it successfully, one must learn to:

1. Get used to a low carbohydrate diet and continue reducing carbs until you can't reduce them anymore.
2. Get into ketosis and experience it for the first time.
3. Get used to being lightheaded until your body normalizes blood pressure.
4. Remove any remaining plant based foods except coffee.

Not many would have started yet completed the above!

Because my recovery is taking so long, there must be additional factors (which I'm trying to solve):

1. Poor nutritional status, see: correcting nutritional deficiencies.
2. Like in ms (above post), it takes time to reverse the damage caused by the long progression of the illness.
3. Believe you can and will heal yourself; and through self improvement retrain brain and body.

 

[GreenEdge]

How to carnivore:
I like this video: The REAL reason I started the Carnivore Diet | Lillie Kane is a certified Health & Nutrition Life coach, as well as a certified Keto Nutrition Health coach. Lillie says about 98% of people who try this way of eating, focus on the negative and see it as a jail or a prison or very restrictive and don't continue even after a few months. Lillie says people should change their mindset from "I have to eat this way" to:

1. I get to eat the world tastiest foods: Bacon, eggs, steak, burger patties, chicken, shrimp, lamb, etc.
2. I get to save my time and energy: The simplicity of shopping and preparing meals.
3. Be okay with not being perfect: You don't have to be super strict carnivore - find what works for you.

 

[cheeseater]

Nord Wolf-
The trashing of your digestive system you noted from your similar diet is the main problem that I know would happen if I tried this diet. One of the main reason people who go "ovo-lacto" vegetarian (they still eat eggs and cheese) is exactly becaue of that same reason. I am not talking about people that go vegetarian or vegan for social and political reasons.

Of course everyone is different. GreenEdge obviously thinks it is a good choice for them.