Carnivore Diet

GreenEdge

Senior Member
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679
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Brisbane, Australia
I have fasted for 5 days, hunger has not yet returned, but I had a shower and found I look too skinny (like a greyhound). Concerned that my body may reduce muscle mass due to the metabolic load of maintaining muscle while being low on resources and sick (unable to hunt), I weighed myself and found I had lost 2.8 kg in 24 hours. More than I had lost in the 4 days prior. I had fasted for 1 day too long, so I ate today. I should have ended the fast yesterday when I found myself shivering and had to put on extra cloths.

One could argue that the stomach pain I had was hunger but I'm sure it wasn't. It had almost disappeared, but not entirely. Unfortunately, I still have fatigue.

I guess we don’t need to feel hungry to be driven to hunt for our next meal.

To simulate hunting, before I ate I went for a short walk and finished with a sprint, then resistance exercise. All that exercise should stimulate muscle growth.

Actually, when you think about it, hunger serves no purpose for hunting.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
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679
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Brisbane, Australia
I googled "raw feeling in stomach" and got this:
Gastritis is inflammation (irritation) of the stomach lining. This may be caused by many factors including infection, alcohol, particular medications and some allergic and immune conditions. Gastritis can be either acute (with severe attacks lasting a day or two) or chronic (with long-term appetite loss or nausea).
I saw a doctor and she got me to lay down and felt my intestinal area. Measured my weight and took my blood pressure whilst sitting and gain standing (no difference). She asked me to take several deep breaths whilst listening with her stethoscope. I guess she was checking for pneumonia (good idea) because I had stated that I had been unusually weak and unsteady on feet. And she suggested a blood test (results now pending) and would let me know if anything of concern is found.

She said for the stomach pain there was only one medication which may or may not help - it was a medication to help lower stomach acid; to which I responded "I won't be taking that" - knowing that a strong acid (low ph) is required to digest meat.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
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679
Location
Brisbane, Australia
The doctor asked me “Do you think the stomach pain might be caused by diet?”

I said “No, I think my diet has revealed something that has always been there. I've had this raw feeling several times over the last year. I think I only see it when I'm strictly adhering to an anti-inflammatory diet.”

If you're eating an inflammatory diet so you're always inflamed and that's what you're used to, you won't notice anythings wrong because that's normal to you. I'm eating an anti-inflammatory diet, so by taking away food as a cause of inflammation, I have discovered some other type of inflammation.

It's thought that all auto-immune conditions like ME/CFS begin as inflammation in our digestive tract. The exact cause is unknown. I hope that by taking away diet as a cause of inflammation, the body can then see the problem, fight it and restore our health.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
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679
Location
Brisbane, Australia
How did she know your stomach acid was the problem?
I don't know what she was thinking. The raw feeling is in my small intestines. (Enteritis)

There's no way I'm going to take a drug that alters the way the stomach works. The stomach is an acid bath. The muscles contract to circulate the fluid. Raising the pH effectively disables the stomach. What then happens downstream?

Do medical practitioners know what they are doing? Or are they just throwing darts?
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
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Great Lakes
When the stomach is empty for prolonged periods of time it can generate excess acid which can damage the lining.

In those cases, one either has to eat something or take something to reduce the acid at least a bit. You could try a small amount of baking soda in water perhaps or DGL powder esp if you don't want to take any PPIs.

You really only need the acid happening when your stomach has food it needs to digest. If that isn't happening because you are fasting, creating an alkaline ph in the stomach at least short term is fine though I agree with you about not wanting to do the PPIs. I tend to think their effect is too long lasting.

Edit: Something else that I've found works for times I have gastritis is salt cure sauerkraut or sauerkraut juice. It's high in lactic acid and I did not used to be able to tolerate that but now I do okay when eating it and as I said, it even helps with the gastritis.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
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679
Location
Brisbane, Australia
I think that "raw feeling in stomach" is healing. When I get it now (after fasting for 3 days), it changes to hunger within about 2 hours and I then break my fast.

Thanks to carnivore diet, I'm now off all medications and I won't ever need to visit my GP ever again, because animals that eat their natural diet do not get sick. I've been eating carnivore/lion OMAD + fasting.

A month ago I increased my animal fat intake and my brain has been healing faster with brain fog lifting (establishing a new normal). I have no idea how much more brain fog I have, but the improvements have been accelerating (now almost daily).

I now rarely get PEM, but when I do, it feels very bad so I'm become bed bound, but it only lasts half a day, whereas before it would last weeks or months.
 
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GreenEdge

Senior Member
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679
Location
Brisbane, Australia
I now include fasting for 3 days, every 2 weeks. When autophagy begins on 2nd day I get all sorts of nerve healing pains. Late on 3rd day I get a raw stomach feeling and soon after it turns into hunger and I then break my fast. Maybe the raw feeling is a signal to go hunt for next meal? but I think it's healing of the gut lining. I'm convinced ME/CFS is a auto-immune disorder and all such disorders begin due to a leaky gut lining allowing foreign stuff to enter circulation.

Before I break my fasts, I do a workout to simulate a successful hunt and to stimulate muscle growth. When I fast my mind clarity, mood, exercise tolerance, strength and eyesight all improve. If we didn't get stronger while fasting we would not have survived as a species.

I have been doing lion/carnivore now for 1½ years. I would not recommend including fasting until you have been doing keto/carnivore for at least 2 years. Earlier fasts did not give me a clear signal of when to end them and I ended up loosing muscle.
 

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
197
Location
France
I did strict carnivore for 3 months then started incl stuff (very little else though). Been on carnivore for a good 5 months: eggs for lunch, beef with butter for dinner, occasional bacon or lard. Unrefined salt. Poultry and fish sometimes. Yogurts.

The loosest I've been is: I'll add the odd avocado one week, I do eat dark chocolate (a square or two) every day and I'll have the occasional low sugar fruit (raspberries or half a grapefruit). Also olive oil.

I do feel worse when I try to have something sweet like a fig.

Overall I would say the benefits have been subtle. Less heart palpitations, no intestinal pains, possible athletic improvement. Has not changed the main problem for me which is brain fog + general flu-like feeling. But no mere diet on its own will ever change that.
 

HABS93

Senior Member
Messages
485
Been about a year on Carnivore. I sometimes shoot my self in the foot with Coffee which sometimes results in a stomach ache but extended fasts to up my ketones which make me feel a lot better.

Overall, my energy levels are even keel thankfully. I even been working out. I think with CFS you need 2-5 years on Carnivore with scheduled pro-longed fasts and some Ozone Sauna to reverse CFS. A lot of people think that you should becured in like 3 months and its like mannnn thats wrong.

The body can take years to heal. Yes Carnivore is properly fueling the body but the body has to slowly go through a healing crisis. And that can take a very long time.
 

HABS93

Senior Member
Messages
485
I did strict carnivore for 3 months then started incl stuff (very little else though). Been on carnivore for a good 5 months: eggs for lunch, beef with butter for dinner, occasional bacon or lard. Unrefined salt. Poultry and fish sometimes. Yogurts.

The loosest I've been is: I'll add the odd avocado one week, I do eat dark chocolate (a square or two) every day and I'll have the occasional low sugar fruit (raspberries or half a grapefruit). Also olive oil.

I do feel worse when I try to have something sweet like a fig.

Overall I would say the benefits have been subtle. Less heart palpitations, no intestinal pains, possible athletic improvement. Has not changed the main problem for me which is brain fog + general flu-like feeling. But no mere diet on its own will ever change that.
Don't worry keep pushing. It's subtle at first but remember we are going to have to go through major time on this diet and fasting to eventually get rid of the main issues. Maybe incorporate some Ozone Sauna in there to perfectly oxygenate the cells.

Make sure you grab Dr.Bergs Organic Electrolytes. I cannot stress how amazing this product is. I finally got off Weed thanks to it and about to say good bye to coffee. Installed a Chin up bar with dip bars as well. Even if you can only do 10m of exercise. Do it. I found the excuse of CFS i cannot exercise to actually be worse for your body. Your body doesn't expand the energy envelope without embarrassing The Suck.

Even if its 2 chin ups from dead hang. Thats your baseline. Find your baseline, the electrolytes even on CFS will make sure you recovery properly. Ketosis will supply energy , you'll feel weak still but you won't crash that bad. My crashes started to even out when i connected all of this together. The ozone sauna will over ride the CFS for recovery + what i just said before = you will recover.

No its not easy. Even after a year im still struggling but my body is okay with intense exercise. First 5 years of CFS for me I would crash almost instantly due to my very bad diet, smoking a shit load of weed, and exposure to dangerous chemicals at an oil refinery. My CFS was actually Sarcoidosis and my diagnosis was my lymph nodes were the size of tumors in my lungs. I was just backed up and extremely unfit.

Now, i can drink coffee and no shakey weak feeling. Ozone sauna once a week. Organic electrolytes + Carnivore and sometimes im laughing. Don't give up you got this!
 

HABS93

Senior Member
Messages
485
I think that "raw feeling in stomach" is healing. When I get it now (after fasting for 3 days), it changes to hunger within about 2 hours and I then break my fast.

Thanks to carnivore diet, I'm now off all medications and I won't ever need to visit my GP ever again, because animals that eat their natural diet do not get sick. I've been eating carnivore/lion OMAD + fasting.

A month ago I increased my animal fat intake and my brain has been healing faster with brain fog lifting (establishing a new normal). I have no idea how much more brain fog I have, but the improvements have been accelerating (now almost daily).

I now rarely get PEM, but when I do, it feels very bad so I'm become bed bound, but it only lasts half a day, whereas before it would last weeks or months.
Correct that's a healing effect. The acidity issue kind of faded away from me. Now If you add in Dr.Bergs organic electrolytes 1 hour after eating your stomach pain will disappear. Or fast with it.

Now its just too much coffee that can cause my stomach to ache ahah but then i have some of those beautiful electrolyes and im singing and dancing again!

Keep going , I know CFS cases that took 5 years on Carnivore to reverse.
 

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
197
Location
France
Don't worry keep pushing. It's subtle at first but remember we are going to have to go through major time on this diet and fasting to eventually get rid of the main issues. Maybe incorporate some Ozone Sauna in there to perfectly oxygenate the cells.

Make sure you grab Dr.Bergs Organic Electrolytes. I cannot stress how amazing this product is. I finally got off Weed thanks to it and about to say good bye to coffee. Installed a Chin up bar with dip bars as well. Even if you can only do 10m of exercise. Do it. I found the excuse of CFS i cannot exercise to actually be worse for your body. Your body doesn't expand the energy envelope without embarrassing The Suck.

Even if its 2 chin ups from dead hang. Thats your baseline. Find your baseline, the electrolytes even on CFS will make sure you recovery properly. Ketosis will supply energy , you'll feel weak still but you won't crash that bad. My crashes started to even out when i connected all of this together. The ozone sauna will over ride the CFS for recovery + what i just said before = you will recover.

No its not easy. Even after a year im still struggling but my body is okay with intense exercise. First 5 years of CFS for me I would crash almost instantly due to my very bad diet, smoking a shit load of weed, and exposure to dangerous chemicals at an oil refinery. My CFS was actually Sarcoidosis and my diagnosis was my lymph nodes were the size of tumors in my lungs. I was just backed up and extremely unfit.

Now, i can drink coffee and no shakey weak feeling. Ozone sauna once a week. Organic electrolytes + Carnivore and sometimes im laughing. Don't give up you got this!
Thanks for your positivity. I've gone off carnivore a bit since I haven't seen major benefits despite a few months straight of strict discipline. But I wanted to ask: are Berg's electrolytes that efficient ? I've never had any improvement with separate electrolytes before so I'd be skeptical but I can see how they'd help some. What benefits do you feel exactly ? I agree the "CFS makes me too tired for exercise" is complete BS. Unless you're bedbound, you can exercise.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
679
Location
Brisbane, Australia
An epidemic of western diseases is taking over the world and this phenomena is accelerating. It took off in the late 70's with the introduction of the US dietary guidelines recommending a high carbohydrate low fat diet.
Obesity-NHANES.jpg

Human health has been degenerating for well over a 150 years:
  • Dr. James Salisbury (1823 – 1905) was an American physician, a germ theory pioneer, and inventor of the Salisbury steak to combat illness among Civil War troops.
  • Dr. Weston A. Price (1870-1948), a Cleveland dentist, has been called the “Isaac Newton of Nutrition.” In his search for the causes of dental decay and physical degeneration he traveled the world over in order to study isolated non-industrialized people who still had fine teeth.

Even today, wherever sugar and processed foods infiltrate isolated populations, dental and physical health declines and this creates the need for healthcare practitioners.

The human genome is not flawed. No animal eating it's natural diet gets obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc. All animals (except humans and their pets) know instinctively what they can and can't eat. So how can we know what is our natural diet?

In order to allow our sensors to tell us what's good and what's not, first we need to remove the highly addictive "sugar" and "artificial sweeteners" that keep us addicted to processed foods and increases our consumption beyond normal hunger.

Normal hunger is felt in the stomach and can easily be ignored. It merely tells us it's time to hunt or gather our next meal.

What the carbohydrate consumer experiences a few hours after each meal is not hunger, it's desire, it's in the mind and can't be ignored. As soon as you have room for more, you want more. It's an addiction and calorie restriction or fasting is near impossible.

When people adopt a ketogenic/carnivore lifestyle, it enables access to their fat stores and they become a fat burner. After restoring nutrient deficiencies, fasting becomes easy and doing so activates the therapeutic potential of autophagy (clearing waste from cells).

Over time, consuming animal fat or liver will restore poor health caused by restricting red meat. How else can we meet our requirement for fat soluble vitamins? Vegetable oils only provide enough vitamin E.
Adding bone broth provides connective tissue nutrients to support bone and joint health. Adding a bite size piece of liver each day will help restore the nutrients stored in your liver. These include vitamins A, B12, D, E, K and minerals such as iron and copper. But too much liver will raise carbohydrate intake pushing you out of ketosis (fat burning).

If you want to discover what is the proper human diet, look to toddlers. Allow discovery of what's editable and what's not (no matter how bad it looks) whilst keeping processed foods out of reach. Remember processed foods are designed to be as irresistible as possible to maximize sales. Given a wide choice of only whole natural foods, you will find children have a preference for dairy foods and red meat, especially beef and liver.

No, red meat does not cause bowel cancer. You can't blame an ancient food for a modern disease. Processed foods and healthcare have both become huge and very profitable. Meat is the enemy of the processed food industry.

Our digestive system is carnivore. Our (highly acidic) stomach turns meat into liquid that is then absorbed in our (double length) small intestines. What exits into our (half length) large intestine is mostly water which is absorbed to leaving very little waste - a stool the size of a finger.

IMHO: The real cause of bowel cancer is indigestible material that irritates the colon like nuts and whole grains that pass through our stomach and small intestines undigested.

We are carnivores: Humans were apex predators for two million years, study finds
 
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sb4

Senior Member
Messages
1,765
Location
United Kingdom
Gastroparesis issues make carnivore very difficult. Tried it again recently for a couple of days. Eating like 1500 kcals per day of corned beef, beef tallow, and a little coconut water. Was up all night with the food in my stomach threatening to come back up. I figured corned beef would be easier on digestion as its already broken up but not easy enough apparently.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
679
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Gastroparesis issues make carnivore very difficult. Tried it again recently for a couple of days. Eating like 1500 kcals per day of corned beef, beef tallow, and a little coconut water. Was up all night with the food in my stomach threatening to come back up. I figured corned beef would be easier on digestion as its already broken up but not easy enough apparently.
I hope this helps,
YouTube: What made my GASTROPARESIS better?!
 
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