A report about anti-glycation supps Carnosine Beta-Alanine (=methylation?)

[NotThisGuy]

I dont have elevated homocysteine.

The Folate was MTHF, Metafolin

 

[Asklipia]

The Folate was MTHF, Metafolin

Well, maybe these fake folates are not a good idea together with B1.
This is what happened to me recently.
There is a whole thread about folates and thiamine.

 

[NotThisGuy]

metafolin is also fake folate?
I thought folic acid is the fake one?
today is again a really really dark day for me I hope I find a solution very soon....

 

[Asklipia]

metafolin is also fake folate?
I thought folic acid is the fake one?

Take a look at this post.

 

[Gondwanaland]

This thread reached prominence!
- I just wanted to buy a carcinine supplement, googled, and on the 5th place in the google hits, there we are...:

It shows up in your search because google knows you have visited it before

My best guess so far was vitamin B1

We already know by guessing that one of carcinine actions is to optimize B1 metabolism (=anti-glycation)

 

[Gondwanaland]

today is again a really really dark day for me I hope I find a solution very soon....

I had to take a break from glycoxil, but am experimenting with beta-alanine (which also caused mastocytosis in my husband). I have 1,000mg tablets which I cruush and take just small cruumbs (1/50 - 1/20) of it. The 1st day I had a mood boost and listened to music loudly

For better effect on mood what helped me was:

• Niacin (can't take it due to high uric acid)
• Inositol (can't take it due to high uric acid)
• Benfotiamine (can't take it due to thyroid problems)
• Beta-Alanine (taking it and watching it)
• Glycoxil made me feel the happiest, perhaps I can take it if combined with glycine (glycine raises uric acid)
• L. rhamnosus

I must stay away from anything methylated

You could open a capsule of glycoxil carefully and take just a few grains (try to make it 1/100)
I have empty capsules at home to divide doses (you will want to label empty containers for storing them), but in the end I got so used with opening capsules and taking just a few grains over a glass with water or a small bowl that I barely need empty capsules anymore.

 

[Gondwanaland]

we found out that these days fish was not enough

I have always had this with fish, then recently I found out that I need 2x the portion that is generally given to one person

baked the Irish way, no yeast no sourdough, just a bit of soda,

I had never heard of it, just googled it, interesting

avoid any colour in the crust (acrylamides)

Thanks for drawing my attention to it

sausage made from pigs intestines only.

Does it have a name? Here we have something that is between sausage and paté and is called "pork cheese" and is a chunky paste of the less noble pig parts (ears, snout, tail etc) - I never ate it though... I had anaphylaxis from eating fried pork skin once which is a very popular treat as well around here. I think the lack of B6 favors the glycine breakdown into oxalate by B3

homemade green curry

Do you use fenugreek in it? I am curious about the recipe

I have easy access to any pork part, chicken hearts from any supermarket, but unfortunately only limited access to a small variety of fresh seafood.

heads and shells pounded with garlic. This is supposed to be hard on the liver so a spoonful per person will be enough. (Glycine + allithiamine + carcinine + MK4

carcinine is made from the insides (head) of crabs.
So in the same place the carcinine and the MK4.

I had no idea Hence the name I thought it was synthesized in lab

See also this in 1987 : http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-4159.1987.tb05663.x/abstract

Carcinine biosynthesis was induced in vitro from its two components, β-alanine and histamine. The reaction was catalyzed by muscle, heart, and CNS extracts from Carcinus maenas. The specific activity of the enzyme, carcinine synthetase, was 15 times higher in CNS than in other organs. Only CNS extracts induced biosynthesis of carcinine from histidine, and only in the presence of pyridoxal-5′-phosphate. Hence the seat of carcinine biosynthesis seems to be the CNS. It is highly probable that in the CNS, histidine is transformed into histamine, which is then catabolized into carcinine. The latter would then be transported and accumulated in the cardiac tissue. Thus histamine—the metabolism of which takes place totally within the CNS—would be implicated as a participant in the neuronal activity of Carcinus maenas. Carcinine synthetase is a soluble enzyme that requires the presence of ATP, β-alanine, and histamine. Mg2+ and dithiothreitol are also essential for activity. Optimum pH is ∼7.6. Carcinine synthetase differs from carnosine synthetase and γ-glutamylhistamine synthetase in that it does not catalyze synthesis of β-alanylhistidine or γ-glutamylhistamine.

Something to do with the crustaceans ability to regrow lost limbs? And the current of injury of "The Body Electric"?

But which concrete product do you recommend? And carnosine or carcinine? I was surprised that for example selfhacked does not discuss carcinine at all but discusses carnosine only... Also I read here that carnosine and carcinine need to be stabilised.
(- Sorry if this has been discussed already....)

Apparently Carnosine doesn't have any effect on some people. Glycoxil seems to work. I don't think selfhacked knows about it. He seems to get no effect from Carnosine.

 

[Lolinda]

In MY family, no way would we eat the lobster/shrimps without some of the heads and shells pounded with garlic.

The specific activity of the enzyme, carcinine synthetase, was 15 times higher in CNS than in other organs

Paleo rocks!!
I guess in earlier times, when food did not come from the supermarket, no one would have wasted the head of any animal. The industrial process of producing shrimp tails feeds the valuable parts to the pigs and the less nutritious parts to the humans

Next I add shrimps to my beloved whole mini-sardines
Does one need to take out any organ of a small shrimp or can it be eaten whole, from head to tail? And what happens with the shell when pounding the head with garlic? Isnt it an inedible foil that noone would want to have between the teeth?

PS: My favourite story about how far people got from nature:
There was a time when peasants close to New York painted "COW" on their cows in large letters. The reason: People who lived all their life in the city took guns and went for hunting what they believed to be wild buffallos

 

[Gondwanaland]

Very interesting series of articles on AGEs (free download)
I found these ones especially interesting:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3109/10715762.2013.792926
Free Radic Res. 2013 Aug;47 Suppl 1:93-137. doi: 10.3109/10715762.2013.792926. Epub 2013 May 7.
Molecular strategies to prevent, inhibit, and degrade advanced glycoxidation and advanced lipoxidation end products.
Aldini G1, Vistoli G, Stefek M, Chondrogianni N, Grune T, Sereikaite J, Sadowska-Bartosz I, Bartosz G.
Author information

Abstract
The advanced glycoxidation end products (AGEs) and lipoxidation end products (ALEs) contribute to the development of diabetic complications and of other pathologies. The review discusses the possibilities of counteracting the formation and stimulating the degradation of these species by pharmaceuticals and natural compounds. The review discusses inhibitors of ALE and AGE formation, cross-link breakers, ALE/AGE elimination by enzymes and proteolytic systems, receptors for advanced glycation end products (RAGEs) and blockade of the ligand-RAGE axis.

Page 102
D-carnosine and its lipophilic prodrugs showed a quenching activity almost superimposable on that of L-carnosine being totally stable in human plasma [199]. Due to its promising bioactivity, D-carnosine underwent in vivo studies revealing that it is highly eff ective in attenuating experimental atherosclerosis and renal disease by reducing carbonyl stress and inflammation and that it may represent a promising therapeutic strategy in humans [200].
....
A second heterocycle-based natural compound is represented by thiamine (vitamin B 1 ; Figure 5) whose antiglycation activity can have a dual mechanism. Thiamin is converted in the cell to thiamin pyrophosphate (TPP), the coenzyme for transketolase (TK), a rate-limiting step of the pentose phosphate pathway [202]. TK activation could decrease the accumulation of glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate and fructose-6-phosphate during glycolysis, thus preventing AGE formation [203]. Moreover, thiamine can directly quench reactive carbonyls [204] due to the unique reactivity of its thiazolium nucleus [205] with a mechanism similar to that exerted by thiamine in the enzymatic catalysis [206]. A similar activity is offered by benfotiamine (Figure 5), a soluble analogue of vitamin B 1 [207], which additionally prevents the lipopolysaccharide-induced activation of cPLA2 thus exerting a protective effect by modulating the arachidonic acid pathways [208]. Both benfothiamine and thiamine were reported to be beneficial in experimental models of diabetic nephropathy [209,210]. Benfothiamine improved nerve conduction velocity in diabetic patients [211,212] and prevented vascular endothelial dysfunction after a high-AGE meal [213]. Nevertheless, recent clinical studies on patients suffering from diabetes (types 1 and 2), diabetic nephropathy, and peripheral nerve inflammation showed that benfotiamine does not result in significant reductions in plasma or urinary AGEs or plasma markers of endothelial dysfunction and nerve inflammation compared to placebo [214,215].

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3109/10715762.2013.806798
Free Radic Res. 2013 Aug;47 Suppl 1:28-38. doi: 10.3109/10715762.2013.806798.
Molecular effects of advanced glycation end products on cell signalling pathways, ageing and pathophysiology.
Nedić O1, Rattan SI, Grune T, Trougakos IP.
Author information

Abstract
Advanced glycation end-products (AGEs) are a heterogeneous group of compounds formed by the Maillard chemical process of non- enzymatic glycation of free amino groups of proteins, lipids and nucleic acids. This chemical modification of biomolecules is triggered by endogeneous hyperglycaemic or oxidative stress-related processes. Additionally, AGEs can derive from exogenous, mostly diet-related, sources. Considering that AGE accumulation in tissues correlates with ageing and is a hallmark in several age-related diseases it is not surprising that the role of AGEs in ageing and pathology has become increasingly evident. The receptor for AGEs (RAGE) is a single transmembrane protein being expressed in a wide variety of human cells. RAGE binds a broad repertoire of extracellular ligands and mediates responses to stress conditions by activating multiple signal transduction pathways being mostly responsible for acute and/or chronic inflammation. RAGE activation has been implicated in ageing as well as in a number of age-related diseases, including atherosclerosis, neurodegeneration, arthritis, stoke, diabetes and cancer. Here we present a synopsis of findings that relate to AGEs-reported implication in cell signalling pathways and ageing, as well as in pathology. Potential implications and opportunities for translational research and the development of new therapies are also discussed.

 

[NotThisGuy]

carcinine is made from the insides (head) of crabs.
So in the same place the carcinine and the MK4.

So how safe is carcinine for people with allergies to seafood?

 

[Gondwanaland]

So how safe is carcinine for people with allergies to seafood?

Probably not safe
I guess this could explain my husband's bouts of mastocytosis, even though we are not aware of him having seafood allergy

 

[Asklipia]

Does it have a name? Here we have something that is between sausage and paté and is called "pork cheese" and is a chunky paste of the less noble pig parts (ears, snout, tail etc) - I never ate it though... I had anaphylaxis from eating fried pork skin once which is a very popular treat as well around here. I think the lack of B6 favors the glycine breakdown into oxalate by B3

Yes it has a name, but I am keeping my secrets secret! To remain anonymous as much as possible.
That "pork cheese" is fabulous! As long as they have not put some MSG in it which of course would have turned it into some kind of Trojan horse bringing Fake Folate. Fried pork skin is poison because of the acrylamides, which is why it is popular. Acrylamides bring AGE but not only. Acrylamides are addictive, just like folates, it all goes to feed the excitement to keep the masses in the right direction in our consumer society. "Greed brings Death" say the Hindus, which means that if your body remains in the sympathetic mode of Pingala, you will wear it out and die.
Christianity points out that all the sins are sins of the sympathetic mode! Christ was a Saviour, a term that in Greek means "doctor", and the promise of following Him is eternal life of the body.

Do you use fenugreek in it? I am curious about the recipe

No.
Chicken in Thai green curry. This is medicinal. Not entirely traditional, my adaptation with the original ingredients to make it harmless. Careful no canned or preserved coconut, all fresh or substitute with some coconut oil + grated dessicated.

Prepare a paste in a blender of
the outer skin of a whole Thai makrut lime, 2 handfuls of raw whole shrimps, one big thumb of peeled galangal root, 3 big shallots, 10 big garlic cloves, 6 sticks of lemon grass already cut in small pieces, 1 big green chilli, 1 small green chilli, a bunch of Thai or Chinese basil (stalks removed), and, after having roasted them in a small pan together 1 teaspoon each of peppercorns, coriander seeds, cumin seeds. Add coconut water to be able to blend, ot just water if you have none.
You can make it double and freeze for next time but in that case omit the basil because it looses its effectiveness when frozen, you will have to add fresh basil next time. Normal basil does not work, the taste and a good part of the medicinal effect comes from this Chinese or Thai basil.

In the pan, add the chicken in pieces with bones, a big spoonful of coconut oil, 2 makrut leaves (you can freeze them forever if you find a pack, dry are no good), a chinese bowl of fresh coconut cream, 2 big cloves of garlic and 4 shallots shredded, the above paste, add water to make sure the chicken is drowned but not one drop more, and cook on a slow fire for about 40 mns, then add 5 small apple eggplants in quarters, 3 handfuls of pea aubergines, a dash of nuoc mam (if you cannot find a brand without MSG, add more salt instead, This brand is OK).
Serve when the chicken comes off the bone. With rice. Better even, with steamed glutinous rice.
Enjoy!

 

[Asklipia]

Does one need to take out any organ of a small shrimp or can it be eaten whole, from head to tail?

No problem with any part. Must chew thoroughly.

And what happens with the shell when pounding the head with garlic? Isnt it an inedible foil that noone would want to have between the teeth?

You add some salt to get better abrasion, when pounded it becomes a paste.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I am ready to report my experience with Beta-Alanine.

In a time span of 2 years I have now tried it for the 3rd and longest round: a whole week of dosages of ~20-30mg and today I took about 50-60mg.

Every time I had the same outcome, although this last round milder but today the worst.

Dizziness, nausea and a bit of a air lump in the throat in a mix of histamine and blood sugar issues (not measured).

Incredibly for the 1st time this year today my husband invited me to go to a restaurant to eat fish with crab+shrimp sauce (obviously I haven't mentioned anything about the recipe I read here)

I couldn't decline his invitation, this is a restaurant we use to go 3-4x per year and this year was the 1st time. I brought a crumb of P5P in my purse but it wasn't needed

After the lunch though I felt extreme tiredness, weak back muscles and heavy eyelids and limbs ( @Mary @Lolinda )

I now need to understand the difference between 1) Histamine the go-getter neurotransmitter (as @Asklipia reported from Glycoxil) and 2) Histamine the tiring toxin...

 

[Lolinda]

After the lunch though I felt extreme tiredness

Selfhacked has a good list of variousest causes of postprandial fatigue.
Though, the one I find most convincing isnt listed there. It is that the vagus nerve has a role of listening to inflammation allover the body and relaying that information to the brain, which translates it into sickness behaviour (I have a paper on that somewhere, let me know if of interest)

I feel that such postprandial issues are important as they may be heralding further trouble.
you may be interested in research on postprandial dysmetabolism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17719342
Epidemiologic data indicate that a postprandial state characterized by abnormally increased levels of glucose and lipids (also referred to as postprandial dysmetabolism) is an independent predictor of future cardiovascular events, even in nondiabetic subjects. The cardiovascular toxicity of postprandial dysmetabolism is mediated by oxidant stress, which is directly proportional to the increase in glucose after a meal. This transient increase in free radicals acutely triggers inflammation, endothelial dysfunction, hypercoagulability, sympathetic hyperactivity, and a cascade of other atherogenic changes. The postprandial dysmetabolism hypothesis has been bolstered by interventional studies that have demonstrated that blunting the postprandial spikes in glucose and lipids improves inflammation and endothelial function immediately. Early randomized controlled trials indicate that reducing postprandial dysmetabolism appears to significantly slow atherosclerotic progression and may improve cardiovascular prognosis. In conclusion, postprandial dysmetabolism appears to be an important proximate cause of adverse cardiovascular events. Addressing this fundamental and largely unrecognized condition will require specific screening and treatment strategies. Diet, exercise, and various pharmacologic agents can improve postprandial dysmetabolism. Using these strategies may help improve the prognosis for patients with diabetes mellitus and/or coronary heart disease

 

[Gondwanaland]

The cardiovascular toxicity of postprandial dysmetabolism is mediated by oxidant stress, which is directly proportional to the increase in glucose after a meal.

This is all brilliant, and the cure fix for it is glycoxil, I am just trying to troubleshoot all the unwanted side effects I get due to poor thyroid function and no endogenous estrogen production

 

[Lolinda]

Carnosine May Mimic Rapamycin
… and provide some of the same benefits of the mTOR inhibitor

For me, this was the single most important message, which made me order carcinine.

• Lowering mtor has a chance to help with autoimmunity
• But mtor is also needed for normal immunity
• Conclusion: It may be wise to cycle Carcinine: a few days take it, lower mtor, but then stop it to increase mtor, so my body does not accumulate any bugs. - selfhacked says for a variety of other reasons: mTOR is one of those things that’s good to have cycled.

troubleshoot all the unwanted side effects I get

- I guess you have already tried cycling it...or?

 

[Gondwanaland]

- I guess you have already tried cycling it...or?

I was first trying to find out what nutrients it depletes (glycine was the missing key I guess), and then, as I already posted before, I plan to take it in very small doses a couple of days only per week. ATP is also needed for proper immune function, and Carcinine helps a lot with it.

 

[JasonUT]

Interesting thread...

Just for the hell of it, I tried my wife's tasteless and odorless hydolized collagen protein powder the last few days. Interestingly, the supposedly tasteless powder tastes very good to me. Another interesting note, it's high in glycine and alanine.

 

[Gondwanaland]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22338794
Anthropol Anz. 2012;69(1):57-69.
How much chicken is food? Questioning the definition of food by analyzing amino acid composition of modern convenience products.

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Substantial differences exist between traditionally cooked and chemically designed ready-to-serve products and raise questions about the general principles and requirements of current food law.

METHODS:
Differences in amino acid patterns were analyzed in four examples of chicken preparations (boiled chicken meat, traditionally prepared broth from whole chicken, and two commercial chicken broths), and four examples of vegetable broth (traditionally prepared, two commercial products one of which was claimed a BIO-product, and the classic German bouillon cube).

RESULTS:
Chicken meat contained 284 mg of free amino acids in 100 ml of the boiled meat homogenate, with physiological peaks of glutamate (14.5 mg/100 ml), glutamine (8.5 mg/100 ml), anserine (88 mg/100 ml) and carnosine (55 mg/100 ml). The patterns significantly differ in industrially designed chicken soups with elevated peaks of glutamate, and missing anserine or carnosine. Similar results were obtained in vegetable broths. In the classic German bouillon cube, glutamate accounts for 96% of all free amino acids.

CONCLUSIONS:
The amino acid composition of modern ready-to-serve chicken soups and vegetable broths are far from being similar to any natural composition. We need to question current legal definitions of food, and consider its impact on eating habits, appetite regulation and obesity.