A report about anti-glycation supps Carnosine Beta-Alanine (=methylation?)

[NotThisGuy]

No, my magnesium levels are even too high.

 

[Gondwanaland]

However my thirst and polyuria increased even more.

In my personal case these symptoms have been helped by the right form of magnesium which is personal & B2. I must add that I am intolerant to magnesium right now.
Polyuria could also be due to low Phosphorus - I suppose FMN/R5P has enough P (?)

I now have glycoxil here, just dont know ifits a good idea to start it ...

In case you decide to try it, take a very low dose and do not take it daily. Its effects last for a few days in the body. A few weeks ago when my husband had a severe cough triggered by sulfites (or mold) I gave him 5mg (five milligrams) of glycoxil. The cough disappeared but a couple of days later he had a bout of mastocytosis - the scalp above his neck became all red and itchy. Again a few days later he had the same in his left foot.

Additionally I don't think it is safe to take while on a crash. I would save it for when you have improved.

There is another sign of this : today we have cleaned cupboards, thrown away all stuff. We are not living like hoarders, everything in the house is clean and accounted for, but we went even further in that regard. I think hoarders build a shell of stuff because their aura is weak and they build a protection.
They must be thiamine deficient.

I am not at all sure of how carcinine fits in all of this.

I can't organize or throw stuff away. I have no mental energy for it. Additionally I think there is something blocking my body against such activities due to the mites (acari) and mold it might involve (I am +/+ for such allergies). It definetely involves B1 deficiency. In the past years the only times I could organize and throw stuff away was when I took 1) benfothiamine 2) glycoxil.

I think glycoxil "un-blocks" B1 metabolism - it optimizes the use of sulfur (incl B1 and Biotin) and the use of histamine for body and mind energy.

Due to glycoxil side effects I am trialling Beta-Alanine right now.

I think the side effects are related with low glycine because I get worsening in my thinning inguinal ligaments and accelerated tooth decay. In this regard if glycoxil also improves K2 activity (it seems to use up fat soluble vitamins) perhaps glycine is a missing link there for better joint and dental health.

BTW I interpreted my craving for oxalates with craving for high vit C food sources

 

[NotThisGuy]

Im beginning to have severe mastocytosis symptoms. Sometimes my throat becomes itchy and a little swollen. Still can breath but there was a resistance...

Are u planning to do the experiment with your husband again and give him additionally B1 ?

B1 made everything so much better until it stopped working... If carcinine is the missing link it might be save... but if not I guess I will have full blown anaphylaxis.

Phosphorus wasn't it neither for the polyuria and thirst. Im pretty sure it is fanconi syndrome.
My uric acid is low as well so it kind of fits in.

I've found studies claiming NADH isn't converted to NAD+ in fanconi syndrome.
For conversion iron and FMN is needed.

Iron indeed made my thirst go away (I have low free iron and ferritin but high intracellular iron) and my complete electrolyte intolerance got better.
Iron made also a few other symptoms worse, so no way I can supplement it easily.

If I wasnt so depressed I would try FMN... well I guess there is no way arround in trying some FMN and NAD+ to see if fanconi gets better.

 

[Asklipia]

I think glycoxil "un-blocks" B1 metabolism - it optimizes the use of sulfur (incl B1 and Biotin) and the use of histamine for body and mind energy.
Due to glycoxil side effects I am trialling Beta-Alanine right now.
I think the side effects are related with low glycine because I get worsening in my thinning inguinal ligaments and accelerated tooth decay. In this regard if glycoxil also improves K2 activity (it seems to use up fat soluble vitamins) perhaps glycine is a missing link there for better joint and dental health.

You are right about the cravings for glycine. In fact we have stopped eating meat as steaks or mince and have favoured for the last weeks stewed whole chickens, tripe, pig colon sausage, paste of duck wings etc. This is obviously glycine oriented in a big way.
The K2 effect is felt, so glycoxil must also improve K2 activity.

Looking for glycine supplements (pigs ears are incredibly hard to find where I am) I found that Country Life make a supplement of 500 mg Glycine with 10 mg B6 added 'for better absorption' of the glycine. So this glycine deficiency of yours could be driven by lack of B6?

I had these glycine cravings before, used the pigs ears and chicken wings to ride over folate-induced crashes.
Thanks for the lights!

 

[Gondwanaland]

Im beginning to have severe mastocytosis symptoms. Sometimes my throat becomes itchy and a little swollen. Still can breath but there was a resistance...

Allergic reactions mean an increased need for B2 and esp. B6 (B1 increases the need for B6 to process the sulfur). B2 works with magnesium and B6 works with copper (not that you must supplement with it, but just be aware and try to get some from food).

Are u planning to do the experiment with your husband again and give him additionally B1 ?

No. My husband has extremely high, above range RBC count. Glycoxil extends the life of the RBCs and he gets symptoms of polycythemia (headaches, pain in joints etc). Also with his blood profile he is not supposed to take B vitamins either.

B1 made everything so much better until it stopped working... If carcinine is the missing link it might be save... but if not I guess I will have full blown anaphylaxis.

In the past Biotin (also a sulfur-containing vitamin) caused me anaphylaxis which I promptly reversed with 3mg (three milligrams) of P5P. I suppose Carcinine improves B6 metabolism, but you must have enough B6 in the 1st place. It sounds like you have depleted it.

Phosphorus wasn't it neither for the polyuria and thirst. Im pretty sure it is fanconi syndrome.

I recently read about a supplemnt causing Fanconi, but now I forget which one... Lysine? I think Lysine metabolism needs B2, B6 and Biotin.

My uric acid is low as well so it kind of fits in.

There are a number of supplements that can raise uric acid (Inositol, B3 etc). I have high uric acid and carcinine improved my symptoms (I haven't measured in blood). B5 lowers uric acid.

I've found studies claiming NADH isn't converted to NAD+ in fanconi syndrome.
For conversion iron and FMN is needed.

And Niacin obviously.

Iron indeed made my thirst go away (I have low free iron and ferritin but high intracellular iron) and my complete electrolyte intolerance got better.
Iron made also a few other symptoms worse, so no way I can supplement it easily.

I know nothing about intracellular iron, but B vitamins esp. B1 and B2 can lead to iron deficiency if one has low iron/ferritin.

I had an interesting experience with iron supplementation: when my hip bursitis was at its worst I took iron and the pain completely disappeared that day. The following day the pain was back and I took iron again and it only worsened the pain. Then just recently I found out that iron is used in glycine metabolism and this is probably why it helped the 1st day but stopped helping since I probably have issues of low glycine - which is a likely explanation for the underlying cause for my bursitis after all. Additionally, let's not forget that troubles in glycine metabolism is a cause for endogenous oxalate production and raised homocysteine. Do you have high homocysteine?

If I wasnt so depressed I would try FMN..

Yes, any amount of B2 causes severe depression for my husband. The balance with B6 is crucial. B6 creates serotonin and B2 degrades it.

Personally I find I need to watch my Tryptophan intake closely to get it enough from food. I always have to add at least small amounts of parsley and mustard grains to my meals, also tiny amounts of tahini and dark chocolate every now and then (all hi ox foods).

Were you taking B1 on its own? How about a supporting B complex as advised by dr Lonsdale?

stopped eating meat as steaks or mince and have favoured for the last weeks stewed whole chickens, tripe, pig colon sausage, paste of duck wings etc. This is obviously glycine oriented in a big way.

Yes I blame my joint issues on a high protein intake which depleted me of glycine big time.

So this glycine deficiency of yours could be driven by lack of B6?

I definetly have poor activation of B6 + increased need for B6 = +/+ MAOA +/+ DAO +/+ MTHFR A1298C.
+/+ MAOA = increased need for and poor use of B2 (this SNP seems to lower the available B2 that could be used to activate B6)
+/+ DAO = increased need for and poor use of B6 (this SNP seems to lower the available B6 that could be used in other pathways)
+/+ MTHFR A1298C causes increased allergies, slows down methylation and increases the use of Transsulfuration (B6) pathway to lower homocysteine.

Glycoxil definetly increases endogenous glycine production (optimizes glycine pathway via improvement of B6 metabolism) which with my salicylate intolerance isn't enough so I need lots of exogenous glycine.

I read on those papers about Carnosine that carnosine blocks DAO, leaving more B6 available for other pathways, so this also explains my husband's mastocytosis (he is also +/+ DAO). At the time I started glycoxil I was taking histamine degrading probiotics, so I think they helped. But since the Bb strains I was taking are methanogenic I lost tolerance and don't take them anymore.

BTW high glycine foods cause me anaphylaxis (low activated B6).

 

[Asklipia]

Thank you @Gondwanaland for this very interesting post! Wishing you the best!

 

[NotThisGuy]

I recently read about a supplemnt causing Fanconi, but now I forget which one... Lysine? I think Lysine metabolism needs B2, B6 and Biotin.

Dont know what it was causing it. Only thing I changed was adding a b-complex with all b vitamins including PABA and Q10 (oxidized form). Since than it is severe. It all started when I took MeB12 a few months before Q10 etc..
Pretty sure it was the Q10 that made it severe since it takes the electrones of complex I and II. Those two complexes seem to be impaired with fanconi.

Allergic reactions mean an increased need for B2 and esp. B6 (B1 increases the need for B6 to process the sulfur). B2 works with magnesium and B6 works with copper (not that you must supplement with it, but just be aware and try to get some from food).

I only took P5P in the past. Then I had to drop it because it lowered my blood pressure too much with it.
Later I could take some P5P again with B1. But then P5P started to give me hives and suicidal thoughts. Maybe due low BH4. I dont know. I ordered some plain pyrodixine and hope that I tolerate it better than P5P.

Were you taking B1 on its own? How about a supporting B complex as advised by dr Lonsdale?

After my crash that left me intolerant to supplements B1 was the single one that lifted the problem. I soon started to take all kind of Vitamins again, also a B-complex. Now I'm again completely intolerant to supplements

 

[Gondwanaland]

But then P5P started to give me hives and suicidal thoughts. Maybe due low BH4.

I think hives could be due to low B2 (?)

with all b vitamins including PABA

It could have been PABA that I read to cause Fanconi...

B6/P5P is very tricky.

When I 1st tried B vitamins B6 at any amount would only cause me symptoms of B6 deficiency. Then I took P5P and finally the deficiency cleared, but in 2 week I got P5P build up and had to counter it with B2.

It used to help me a lot with food intolerances, but not anymore, I think perhaps due to glycine deficiency (which is needed to clear salicylates). Also B6 affects negatively my hormones (excessive estrogen breakdown which I also get with glycoxil).

So it is really hard to figure out what gets depleted/unbalanced from supplementation with B vitamins - it could be minerals, aminoacids, other vitamins, hormones, neurotransmitters...

For instance there must be a balance between B5+Calcium and B6+Magnesium.
B5 and Biotin compete for receptors/transporters
And so on.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Now I'm again completely intolerant to supplements

Reading this kind of info helped me a lot when I couldn't take supplements. You will find lots of helpful info at this site.
https://selfhacked.com/blog/why-you-may-be-reacting-to-supplements/
Other helpful posts are:
https://selfhacked.com/blog/interleukin-6/
https://selfhacked.com/blog/cox2-natural-cox2-inhibitors/
etc

 

[Gondwanaland]

More on glycine. I am impressed by the close relationship it has with tetrahydrofolate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycine#Biosynthesis
Biosynthesis
Glycine is not essential to the human diet, as it is biosynthesized in the body from the amino acid serine, which is in turn derived from 3-phosphoglycerate, but the metabolic capacity for glycine biosynthesis does not satisfy the need for collagen synthesis.[15] In most organisms, the enzyme serine hydroxymethyltransferase catalyses this transformation via the cofactor pyridoxal phosphate:[16]

serine + tetrahydrofolate → glycine + N5,N10-Methylene tetrahydrofolate + H2O

In the liver of vertebrates, glycine synthesis is catalyzed by glycine synthase (also called glycine cleavage enzyme). This conversion is readily reversible:[16]

CO2 + NH+ 4 + N5,N10-Methylene tetrahydrofolate + NADH + H+ → Glycine + tetrahydrofolate + NAD+

Glycine is coded by codons GGU, GGC, GGA and GGG. Most proteins incorporate only small quantities of glycine. A notable exception is collagen, which contains about 35% glycine.[16][17]

Degradation
Glycine is degraded via three pathways. The predominant pathway in animals and plants involves the glycine cleavage enzyme:[16]

Glycine + tetrahydrofolate + NAD+ → CO2 + NH+ 4 + N5,N10-Methylene tetrahydrofolate + NADH + H+

In the second pathway, glycine is degraded in two steps. The first step is the reverse of glycine biosynthesis from serine with serine hydroxymethyl transferase. Serine is then converted to pyruvate by serine dehydratase.[16]

In the third pathway of glycine degradation, glycine is converted to glyoxylate by D-amino acid oxidase. Glyoxylate is then oxidized by hepatic lactate dehydrogenase to oxalate in an NAD+-dependent reaction.[16]

The half-life of glycine and its elimination from the body varies significantly based on dose. In one study, the half-life was between 0.5 and 4.0 hours. [18]

Physiological function
The principal function of glycine is as a precursor to proteins, such as its periodically repeated role in the formation of the collagen helix in conjunction with hydroxyproline. It is also a building block for numerous natural products.

As a biosynthetic intermediate
In higher eukaryotes, δ-aminolevulinic acid, the key precursor to porphyrins, is biosynthesized from glycine and succinyl-CoA by the enzyme ALA synthase. Glycine provides the central C2N subunit of all purines.[16]

As a neurotransmitter
Glycine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the central nervous system, especially in the spinal cord, brainstem, and retina. When glycine receptors are activated, chloride enters the neuron via ionotropic receptors, causing an Inhibitory postsynaptic potential (IPSP).
....

A 2014 review on sleep aids noted that glycine can improve sleep quality, citing a study in which 3 grams of glycine before bedtime improved sleep quality in humans.[21][22] Glycine has also been positively tested as an add-on treatment for schizophrenia.[23]

ETA

Chemical feedstock
Glycine is an intermediate in the synthesis of a variety of chemical products. It is used in the manufacture of the herbicide glyphosate.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Asklipia do you crave Copper and Manganese foods/spices/teas?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Carnosine May Mimic Rapamycin
… and provide some of the same benefits of the mTOR inhibitor

 

[Gondwanaland]

Looking for glycine supplements (pigs ears are incredibly hard to find where I am) I found that Country Life make a supplement of 500 mg Glycine with 10 mg B6

You might be interested in reading the following regarding glycine supplements (not that I want to complicate matters...)
https://selfhacked.com/blog/glycine-little-protein/ (read the comments first)
https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/08/12/living-with-mthfr/ search for Marine Collagen

 

[Asklipia]

@Asklipia do you crave Copper and Manganese foods/spices/teas?

We do not have 'cravings' anymore, but I suppose the ideas for the menus are just that. There is a big difference with the craving feeling though.
Here is a list of what we ate during the last week. We only eat a good lunch, no breakfast, except on the days when we eat fish, because we found out that these days fish was not enough, and on those days we have eaten a couple of eggs fried in butter + home made bread, at the moment half barley flour, half white spelt flour, plus a good spoonful of potato starch to make it more fluffy and stick together. Bread is baked the Irish way, no yeast no sourdough, just a bit of soda, and baked slowly so as to avoid any colour in the crust (acrylamides). There is no kneading involved, thus less gluten and less work. At night a couple of apples, if that. Except for the fish days, when if hungry some paste of duck wings on bread saved from the morning bake (for the eggs), or a few slices of sausage made from pigs intestines only. This last one can make one crazy : real craving there.

- duck breasts in the pan with goose fat + mashed boiled potatoes + dandelion salad
- whole chicken curry Thai style in homemade green curry + boiled rice
- boiled lobster + sauce of lemon juice and melted butter, boiled potatoes
- monkfish in fresh tomato sauce (includes a good fistful of crushed whole very small shrimps more shell than meat, the same that go in the green curry + glass of white wine or shot of whisky) + boiled rice
- fresh pasta (wheat and eggs) in sauce of cream + mushrooms + onion + fresh pork belly + yolks
- avocado + tomatoes + lobster (tail from above which was huge 2 kgs) + greens + cold rice + melted butter and lemon juice
- red cabbage with fresh pork belly (includes rind) + apple + a lot of garlic + honey + cinnamon + a couple of potatoes

We only drink water, San Pellegrino or from the tap. We have one cup of coffee upon waking around 4 a.m., hand roasted at home, expresso-style but we add in the mix a teaspoon of Ganoderma powder for two cups.
No snacking ever. There is no need. If there is a lot of stress (guests or problems), B2 + B6 sublingual.

There is a strange thing : we do not like pepper anymore. I threw away my nice vietnamese white pepper thinking it smelled bad, bought a couple of times other peppers but we both find pepper smells funny and not nice. No problem we use chillies anyway.

Does it help?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Does it help?

Thanks for the delicious menu

There is a strange thing : we do not like pepper anymore. I threw away my nice vietnamese white pepper thinking it smelled bad, bought a couple of times other peppers but we both find pepper smells funny and not nice. No problem we use chillies anyway.

I always have that with white pepper, but black pepper usually smells nice, but I rarely want it. I generally prefer chilies which I can use to eat roasted chicken (the glycine from chicken skin allows me to eat it with no reactions) + cayenne in the strogonoff (the full fat cream I use also seems to neutralize the salicylates).

Interestingly during my 1st round with glycoxil I madly craved boron (dried fruit), also copper, but no amount of copper I ate seemed to be enough for SOD/catalase since my hair got so white (high H2O2 from increased thyroid hormone production?)

ETA - As I said before, while on glycoxil I had no food intolerances whatsoever, so I could eat and craved unresticted fruit (didn't try avocados which have been banned from my menu for years).

 

[Asklipia]

About an association of K2 and carcinine :
You may have noticed that we actually prefer the head and legs of lobsters to the tail. Also we always eat the shrimps whole. This is because when we were supplementing K2 in a big way a Vietnamese friend had told us that no way in his family would they be eating the tails of the shrimps without the head, that the head was the really good part. I had found out at the time that the head of lobster/shrimps is where the MK4 is.
In MY family, no way would we eat the lobster/shrimps without some of the heads and shells pounded with garlic. This is supposed to be hard on the liver so a spoonful per person will be enough. (Glycine + allithiamine + carcinine + MK4 )
So now I never use big shrimps because eating the head is not easy, I prefer to buy the very small ones alive, rinse them and flash frieze them, then add them to be pounded in my recipes.

Now where it becomes interesting is that our carcinine is made from the insides (head) of crabs.
So in the same place the carcinine and the MK4.
Carcinine, as much as I could find out, was discovered in 1975 by a French researcher from Nancy university called Jean-Marie Arnould. His did his PhD thesis on it, in French. He found that the heart of crabs released carcinine.
See also this in 1987 : http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-4159.1987.tb05663.x/abstract
If you read French, his PhD thesis might be interesting, I am sure it is in some Russian archive.
Be well

 

[Asklipia]

Something to do with the crustaceans ability to regrow lost limbs? And the current of injury of "The Body Electric"?

 

[Lolinda]

This thread reached prominence!
- I just wanted to buy a carcinine supplement, googled, and on the 5th place in the google hits, there we are...:

But which concrete product do you recommend? And carnosine or carcinine? I was surprised that for example selfhacked does not discuss carcinine at all but discusses carnosine only... Also I read here that carnosine and carcinine need to be stabilised.
(- Sorry if this has been discussed already....)
Thanks.

carcinine is made from the insides (head) of crabs.

I am not any knowledgeable about carcinine. Could there be carcinine also in heads of sardines? Since months, I eat mini-sardines grilled whole. (The sardines are 10cm small and this small one can eat them as they are and btw they are much much more tasty whole!!). Now, the second paper in the above list elaborates on skin-rejuvenating effects. Guess what, my skin in my face got so much younger during the last months, that the difference could compete with any photoshopped before-after commercial . Also more round, filled, without being any fat. Happy ... as you can imagine My best guess so far was vitamin B1 (which I take since months, equally. It has effects on skin, for example

softer skin would be consequence of healthy B1 metabolism

My second guess was so far the uridine that comes with the nutritional yeast via which I take the B1.
The time frame fits better the yeast. But I doubt B1 / yeast because too many people take it and such a change would be known.
So.. maybe via the whole sardines I already loaded up on carcinine w/o knowing it?

 

[Asklipia]

@Lolinda Congratulations on your nice cheeks!
I think there is no carcinine in the heads of sardines, BUT there is a lot of glycine in the scales! And in the bones!
Whole sardines is how we feed the dogs when they are growing, so that their paws don't get distorted when they play too much at a tender age. Better than tying them up. They get a beautiful shiny coat from whole sardines.
There is K2 in the heads of sardines I think, which will give you soft skin. And vitamin D from their little livers!!
Do take it very slow with the carcinine! Better separate the doses, especially if you buy Supersmart, which has a dosage of 150 mg Glycoxil at a time. I would make 4 doses out of one for a start.
Supersmart Carcinine is Glycoxil, which is 10% carcinine. For the moment, it is the only place to buy Glycoxil except from Brazil, as far as I know.
I DONT RECOMMEND ANYTHING!!!! I am just an individual relating my experiences.
Good luck!

 

[Asklipia]

Dont know what it was causing it. Only thing I changed was adding a b-complex with all b vitamins including PABA and Q10 (oxidized form). Since than it is severe. It all started when I took MeB12 a few months before Q10 etc..

What kind of folate in that b-complex?