Gondwanaland
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I am starting this thread in the methylation subforum because the reaction I got from an anti-glycation supplement was similar to taking MB12. The following reflects personal observations.
Carcinine is a synthetic version of Carnosine modified to avoid quick degradation in the body. Carnosine on its turn is composed of Beta-Alanine + Histidine. Since they are DAO blockers, they upregulate other B6 pathways. I started histamine-degrading probiotics 2 weeks before to avoid problems with blocked DAO.
Carcinine is usually prescribed as an anti-wrinkle supplement in dosages 100 – 300 mg. I took 10mg (ten) daily for 2 weeks with the following results:
Down sides:
After a while I started experiencing early awakening/overstimulation, which is a symptom of hyperthyroid so I decided to stop it. I also experienced a wobbly joint at the left hip ( @Konflict ) so I suspect it might have increased the need for glycine ? (which I can’t take since my body readily turns it into uric acid). Electrolyte balance became pretty fragile (towards increased need for calcium ?). I got more white hair.
Lab results: tanked estrogen and vit D3, raised TSH
It favored T4 production and accelerated estrogen breakdown. It also improved transsulfuration thus burning vit D3 (?).
3 weeks after interrupting it I went to a birthday party and drank wine, then all the hell broke loose:
The sleep disruption returned (waking up in the middle of the night, falling asleep again at 7 AM with chills. I experienced a sudden decline with MCS especially triggered by poor food choices due to overconfidence from being completely allergy-free (dried fruits). A minimal exposure to mild allergens triggered a severe rhinitis (flu like symptoms). I must avoid shampoos and soaps due to sulfites/glycerin and am back to the sodium bicarbonate scrub that helped me so much when I interrupted methylation.
A huge difference between anti-glycation and MB12/Mfolate for me has been zero fatigue from anti-glycation. When I tried methylation, I wasn’t aware about sulfite issues and was consuming a huge amount of high sulfite foods (esp. coconut products).
My husband took 400mg Beta-Alanine 1x with no benefits at all and since then has increased back and tendon (esp. forearms) pain and his joints are getting stiffer and stiffer. I wonder if he should take glycine? Chondroitin sulfate? Magnesium? Vit C? (I had cravings for high vit C non-citrus fruits while on carcinine).
I read that anti-glycation supps inhibit collagen cross-linking, but will have to research what this means in practical terms.
DH also has a swollen mucosa inside the mouth with blisters and skin blisters as a result of spiking and tanking transsulfuration/sulfation (?).
I haven’t read the research re DAO enzymes, but I suppose that being +/+DAO makes for inefficient enzymes which consume much of the circulating B6 thus hindering its performance in other pathways. Both DH and I are +/+ DAO & +/+ for some SNPs for mold allergy.
Interestingly, a couple of years ago I noticed the following upon consumption of coconut oil: even though I was completely infection/allergy-free while consuming it, my lymphocyte count dropped from ~1,800 to below 500 (I obeserved this relationship more than 1x). I am still to find a reasonable explanation to why it happens. I suppose the sulfites divert vit B6 from lymphocyte maturation to the transsulfuration pathway. Or cause B5 deficiency.
Now I could finally put together a lot of symptoms that have puzzled me for a large part of my life. Poor fingernail cuticles, sleep disruption, tightening/swelling/drilling pain in the right trapezius, sun and heat intolerance, squinty eyes seem to be connected by poor transsulfuration/sulfation. I still have to learn about sulfites and phenols.
Interesting compendium about sulfites - I haven’t read it in full yet, but it explains what nutrients help the pathways:
Report #11 - The Detoxification System Part III: Sulfoxidation and Sulfation
@picante @Asklipia @xena @Sidereal @Violeta @prioris @Lolinda @ahmo @Mary @Paralee @aaron_c @dannybex
It would be interesting to have the input from others who have used anti-glycation supplements and comments about sulfite, phenol and salicylate issues. The key vitamins are B5 and B6 - more detalis in the document linked above.
EDIT -- had I been wise enough from everything I already experienced, I should have taken the carcinine 1 - 2x weekly rather than daily, but the energy is addictive
EDIT 2 -- Here is a warning to people on HRT:
Stay away from Carcinine, because it speeds up hormone breakdown (all of them) and messes up with replacement therapy!
Carcinine is a synthetic version of Carnosine modified to avoid quick degradation in the body. Carnosine on its turn is composed of Beta-Alanine + Histidine. Since they are DAO blockers, they upregulate other B6 pathways. I started histamine-degrading probiotics 2 weeks before to avoid problems with blocked DAO.
Carcinine is usually prescribed as an anti-wrinkle supplement in dosages 100 – 300 mg. I took 10mg (ten) daily for 2 weeks with the following results:
- increased physical and mental energy (procrastination gone! Easy decision making! I could clean and organize stuff again!)
- accessing childhood memories
- reduced pain in joint/muscles esp trapezius
- good mood and high spirits
- eyebrow regrowth
- reversal of "turkey neck" in just a couple of days
- excellent tolerance to heat and sun (I could walk outside at a temperature above 35°C with no issues!)
- improved transsulfuration (could chop onions without tears)
- zero allergies/intolerances
- easy and frequent BMs (it increased the benefits I was already having from probx)
- the cuticles of my fingernails became exceptionally healthy
- the skin at the sides of my fingernails became very hard, just like when I take B5
Down sides:
After a while I started experiencing early awakening/overstimulation, which is a symptom of hyperthyroid so I decided to stop it. I also experienced a wobbly joint at the left hip ( @Konflict ) so I suspect it might have increased the need for glycine ? (which I can’t take since my body readily turns it into uric acid). Electrolyte balance became pretty fragile (towards increased need for calcium ?). I got more white hair.
Lab results: tanked estrogen and vit D3, raised TSH
It favored T4 production and accelerated estrogen breakdown. It also improved transsulfuration thus burning vit D3 (?).
3 weeks after interrupting it I went to a birthday party and drank wine, then all the hell broke loose:
- Profuse vomiting with onset of several intolerances and vit B1 deficiency
- Sleeping with arms above the head (impaired breathing from sulfites)
- Burning eyes
- Sunlight sensitivity
- (Slight) neck and (severe) trapezius pain esp. right after meals and under the sun
- Rhinitis/sinusitis, MCS (all of a sudden my nose noticed that the cat litter we buy at the supermarket is moldy)
- Disrupted sleep/cyrcadian rhythm
The sleep disruption returned (waking up in the middle of the night, falling asleep again at 7 AM with chills. I experienced a sudden decline with MCS especially triggered by poor food choices due to overconfidence from being completely allergy-free (dried fruits). A minimal exposure to mild allergens triggered a severe rhinitis (flu like symptoms). I must avoid shampoos and soaps due to sulfites/glycerin and am back to the sodium bicarbonate scrub that helped me so much when I interrupted methylation.
A huge difference between anti-glycation and MB12/Mfolate for me has been zero fatigue from anti-glycation. When I tried methylation, I wasn’t aware about sulfite issues and was consuming a huge amount of high sulfite foods (esp. coconut products).
My husband took 400mg Beta-Alanine 1x with no benefits at all and since then has increased back and tendon (esp. forearms) pain and his joints are getting stiffer and stiffer. I wonder if he should take glycine? Chondroitin sulfate? Magnesium? Vit C? (I had cravings for high vit C non-citrus fruits while on carcinine).
I read that anti-glycation supps inhibit collagen cross-linking, but will have to research what this means in practical terms.
DH also has a swollen mucosa inside the mouth with blisters and skin blisters as a result of spiking and tanking transsulfuration/sulfation (?).
I haven’t read the research re DAO enzymes, but I suppose that being +/+DAO makes for inefficient enzymes which consume much of the circulating B6 thus hindering its performance in other pathways. Both DH and I are +/+ DAO & +/+ for some SNPs for mold allergy.
Interestingly, a couple of years ago I noticed the following upon consumption of coconut oil: even though I was completely infection/allergy-free while consuming it, my lymphocyte count dropped from ~1,800 to below 500 (I obeserved this relationship more than 1x). I am still to find a reasonable explanation to why it happens. I suppose the sulfites divert vit B6 from lymphocyte maturation to the transsulfuration pathway. Or cause B5 deficiency.
Now I could finally put together a lot of symptoms that have puzzled me for a large part of my life. Poor fingernail cuticles, sleep disruption, tightening/swelling/drilling pain in the right trapezius, sun and heat intolerance, squinty eyes seem to be connected by poor transsulfuration/sulfation. I still have to learn about sulfites and phenols.
Interesting compendium about sulfites - I haven’t read it in full yet, but it explains what nutrients help the pathways:
Report #11 - The Detoxification System Part III: Sulfoxidation and Sulfation
@picante @Asklipia @xena @Sidereal @Violeta @prioris @Lolinda @ahmo @Mary @Paralee @aaron_c @dannybex
It would be interesting to have the input from others who have used anti-glycation supplements and comments about sulfite, phenol and salicylate issues. The key vitamins are B5 and B6 - more detalis in the document linked above.
EDIT -- had I been wise enough from everything I already experienced, I should have taken the carcinine 1 - 2x weekly rather than daily, but the energy is addictive
EDIT 2 -- Here is a warning to people on HRT:
Stay away from Carcinine, because it speeds up hormone breakdown (all of them) and messes up with replacement therapy!
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