Struggling bad about getting Covid Vaccine

[TiredBill]

Yes there is a lot of it about! But I wonder if it makes much difference now. Over here in the UK the vast majority have been fully vaccinated so the mad stuff on the web has'nt had much effect. How is it in the USA?

Depends where one lives. Here is California (where I live) vaccination rates are relatively high (but lower than where they ought to be) and people have been good about masking. As a consequence our hospitals are not packed beyond capacity.

In contrast, much of the South--places like Florida, Louisiana, etc--are absolute catastrophes due to low vaccination rates and terrible public health policies. In Texas the farm stores have had a run out of dewormers due to the misinformation being spread that taking ivermectin is a good idea. It is a very sad state of affair and people are dying and suffering as a result of the ongoing disinformation campaigns.

Mad stuff has had a very profound and negative effect here. It is embarrassing.

Bill

 

[TiredBill]

Well I hope you dont get it as badly as we did. Delta is very bad news.

Large parts of the USA are getting clobbered. This is a Delta pandemic now. I think many people do not understand this is a whole different animal with regard to contagion that the first wave of Covid. Those who don't vaccinate can expect to get sick, unless they are really lucky.

I can't imagine having a bad case of Covid on top of ME/CFS. Why would anyone risk that when there are safe and effective vaccines???

Bill

 

[andyguitar]

Large parts of the USA are getting clobbered. This is a Delta pandemic now.

Yes that's what happened here, it became the dominant strain very quickly. But we were lucky as our vaccination rate at that point was quite high so mass casualties were avoided. Good luck to you all.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I can't imagine having a bad case of Covid on top of ME/CFS. Why would anyone risk that when there are safe and effective vaccines???

Yes, well Delta concluded my vaccine hesitancy. With my husband only having J and J, and he goes out on errands, it got just too risky for me to "wait" further. (I stayed away from people).

My husband then got almost a flu over the weekend (we had a rather panicky feeling) ...but its his version of his run down stuff. We hope.

I live in an small town So Cal, but LA comes up every weekend, lots of younger folks- the type who are more invincible..... I like Tuesdays much better!

 

[hapl808]

I can't imagine having a bad case of Covid on top of ME/CFS. Why would anyone risk that when there are safe and effective vaccines???

I think the issue is they are safe and effective - for almost everyone. But sadly people with ME/CFS are often in that small remainder. I think the vast majority recovered quickly even here, but there are more than a few who are dealing with long term crashes from it, so not sure why the concern would be surprising? For many, anything can crash us whether it's a mild allergic reaction or a day with too much sun.

It would be nice if our patient cohort was included in more trials and studies so we knew the likely effects and how they might differ from the healthy population. Instead we have to rely on anecdotal evidence and our own experience in how our bodies react differently. A difficult path to navigate.

 

[TiredBill]

I think the issue is they are safe and effective - for almost everyone. But sadly people with ME/CFS are often in that small remainder. I think the vast majority recovered quickly even here, but there are more than a few who are dealing with long term crashes from it, so not sure why the concern would be surprising? For many, anything can crash us whether it's a mild allergic reaction or a day with too much sun.

It would be nice if our patient cohort was included in more trials and studies so we knew the likely effects and how they might differ from the healthy population. Instead we have to rely on anecdotal evidence and our own experience in how our bodies react differently. A difficult path to navigate.

I've seen no evidence that vaccines are not safe and effective for people with ME/CFS. Covid can kill us dead.

And compounding our illness with one (that should we survive it) has the proven capacity to provoke a disease (Long Covid) that so strongly resembles our own, is very scary to me. i would not want to carry that sort of health burden.

Between Covid and safe and effective vaccines, I'm personally not finding the best path remotely difficult to navigate.

Bill

 

[TiredBill]

Yes, well Delta concluded my vaccine hesitancy. With my husband only having J and J, and he goes out on errands, it got just too risky for me to "wait" further. (I stayed away from people).

My husband then got almost a flu over the weekend (we had a rather panicky feeling) ...but its his version of his run down stuff. We hope.

I live in an small town So Cal, but LA comes up every weekend, lots of younger folks- the type who are more invincible..... I like Tuesdays much better!

I'm glad to hear it. Moderna seems like the top choice for protection if you can get it (I'd try). Moderna is what I had. Other family members had Pfister--which seemed ever so slightly better than Moderna against the first wave, but Delta has changed the situation. Significant advantage to Moderna.

I had the typical sore arm after the first shot and a thrashed night's sleep and half a day of tiredness after the second (also typical). No other change (positive or negative) afterwards.

And it was quite a boost to know I had protection against Covid.

Bill

ETA: You might also speak with your husband's physician. For what I understand the smartest play for people with J&J to enhance their protection is to get a Moderna booster.

 

[Woof!]

I am still struggling with the decision to get the vaccine too. I don't want to lose any hard-fought gains with my ME. Besides, I am alone much of the time right now. But, depending on what happens with covid and vaccine mandates, I'm trying to decide which might be the "best"/least harmful to take...
Given that I have autoimmune diseases and even gluten cross-reactivity to most grains/dairy/eggs/etc., I wonder about my immune system creating some sort of reaction against the saponins. Which would be bad as they are in many different types of plant foods and food additives. @nerd any thoughts on this?

I struggled, too, and I waited to get vaccinated because I didn't want to make my ME worse and because I, too, live alone and have autoimmune issues (Sjogrens). Plus I react very badly to starches and all grains (except, for some reason oatmeal) and less badly to dairy. (I'm okay with eggs, fortunately.) Also, because I just don't see many people indoors - I'm not a social butterfly.

When the delta version of COVID hit the county next to me badly, I saw I needed to revisit the idea of getting vaccinated. So I had my first Moderna vax a week and a half ago. Other than a sore upper arm that gradually got better over two days, not only did I not feel any negative effects, I actually (and oddly) felt energized like crazy for a few days. It has to be psychological - I guess the stress of not being vaccinated was weighing me down more than I realized.

I'll report back on how I feel after the second vaccine...

 

[Woof!]

There's no reason for others who have had the vaccine to fear being around the unvaccinated, since they're protected.

Disagree firmly.
(1) That's not true with the Delta variant;
(2) No vaccine is 100% effective; The best have efficacies in the 90's.;
(3) "Breakthrough" cases can occur with any vaccine due to individual patient response to the vaccines; and
(4) Lord knows we all need to think of what we might be passing to others (like little kids and immunocompromised adults) as unknowing carriers.

I waited a long time to get vaccinated (I just got vaccinated a week and a half ago), but at no time did I not worry about the health of other people in the off-chance that somehow I could carry the virus to them without showing symptoms. For that reason, I was never inside unmasked with anyone, and I maintained a healthy 10+ feet from everyone inside or outside.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

I also got very sleepy for 4 days after my 2nd Pfizer shot.

Sharing annupdate after my 2nd Pfizer shot:
I experienced profound but temporary (5 days) reduction of my PEM symptoms after 4-5 days of sleepiness, fever, chills and malaise.

I respect everyone's concerns and apprehensions about covid-19 vaccination. It is such a personal decision. I am glad we are hearing arguments yea or nae. For myself, I initially felt that I was isolated enough being homebound but then I realized I was exposing myself more when I recently began to feel well enough to venture outside my home.

Good luck in the decision-making!

 

[perchance dreamer]

As an adult, I've had some vaccines and declined others and thought a long time about getting the covid-19 vaccination. But after talking to the doctor I trust the most, I decided to get it, and I'm so glad I did.

I had the J&J, and other than increased sinus congestion for several days, had no side effects, not even a sore arm. The peace of mind is great. It's hard to imagine anything worse than struggling for breath and having to be ventilated.

In Central Texas, as reported Tuesday, there are only 2 staffed ICU beds available because of our multitude of cases. If only covid-19 had been framed early last year as the health emergency it is rather than a political issue, things would be so much better now.

 

[andyguitar]

In Central Texas, as reported Tuesday, there are only 2 staffed ICU beds available because of our multitude of cases.

Phew thats pretty bad news! Has it made people take covid more seriously?

 

[perchance dreamer]

Phew thats pretty bad news! Has it made people take covid more seriously?

I haven't seen evidence of that. However, some of our school districts are defying our governor and issuing mask mandates, anyway. I hope it's a sign of a tipping point. I think it will become difficult politically for our and Florida's governors to keep forbidding mask mandates when all these children and young people are getting sick.

I was reading about the history of mass extinctions, and sometimes it seems as if with climate change inaction and allowing this pandemic to rage that we are experiencing a self-inflicted mass extinction. At least the dinosaurs had the asteroid to blame for theirs.

 

[nerd]

The efficacy of Biontech has dropped in half due to delta (10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707). Considering the high risks of mRNA, I think Biontech is the worst candidate now.

 

[andyguitar]

The efficacy of Biontech has dropped in half due to delta

I think the researchers are talking about protection against infection @nerd the protection against serious disease and hospitalisation is still high.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

ou might also speak with your husband's physician. For what I understand the smartest play for people with J&J to enhance their protection is to get a Moderna booster.

yes, I'd like to see him get a booster- he is 75 and has lists of "issues".

 

[nerd]

I think the researchers are talking about protection against infection @nerd the protection against serious disease and hospitalisation is still high.

Probably true. Severe cases are just a subset that depends on viral load. But one goal of the vaccination is herd immunity. If you give vaccinated all their freedoms back, and let the virus spread among them, with or without severe cases, ADE is just a matter of time. It's the same when antibiotics are used in lower concentrations than indicated. For the delta variant, a higher threshold is indicated.

The same applies to Ivermectin. The FLCCC has just doubled their indicated dose.

The virus "tries" to outrun all antibody responses by replicating faster than any immunity can respond. There's a natural limit of how fast the immune system can respond, even if it's sensitized.

 

[Woof!]

I was reading about the history of mass extinctions, and sometimes it seems as if with climate change inaction and allowing this pandemic to rage that we are experiencing a self-inflicted mass extinction. At least the dinosaurs had the asteroid to blame for theirs.

In this case our extinction will be caused by dinosaurs of a different kind - dinosaur politicians who don't care about anyone other than themselves, their deep-pocket funders and their way-out-of-their-minds sycophants. JMHO.

 

[andyguitar]

But one goal of the vaccination is herd immunity.

One of the scientists that developed the Astra Zeneca/Oxford jab was giving evidence to a group of MPs yesterday and he had some bad news about herd immunity. It's not going to happen. Because the jabs are not effective enough and getting infected does not provide long lasting protection. So covid will still have people to infect. It wont go away. He might be wrong of course. But on a more positive note he also predicts that those who have been vaccinated or caught covid will have some protection for decades. I expect he is talking about T memory cells lasting that long.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

It's not going to happen. Because the jabs are not effective enough and getting infected does not provide long lasting protection.

Thats the sense I've gotten reading various sources. we don't yet know for sure, but its pretty likely to stick around.

this article is interesting, from 2020, mentions part of the reason the first SARS outbreak went away, was they successfully found and isolated sick ones.

with SARS COV-2, it can spread before you know you have symptoms.

https://theconversation.com/the-ori...heres-why-coronavirus-wont-do-the-same-138177