Staph vaccine to treat CFS??

[Hipsman]

Another exciting aspect of this is that the level of neutralizing antibodies induced by the Staphypan vaccine correlated with the clinical effect. Which means that if this more modern vaccine induces a stronger serological response, then it has the potential to have even more potent effects against ME/CFS compared to Staphypan!

Good news indeed, it will be more accessible when it comes out then Russian staph vaccine, but it's probably that if someone doesn't respond or have long lasting effects from Russian staph vaccine, then he wouldn't benefit long term from this new vaccine too...

 

[Hip]

@Hip Exciting news! There's a new, cGMP compliant Staphylococcus aureus toxoid vaccine in development called IBT-V02 by a company called Integrated Biotherapeutics Inc. It's reportedly in the late preclinical stage. It seems to contain most of the toxins that the original Staphypan vaccine contained.

That looks great! That could be available in a few years.

Some years back, I found three Staphylococcus vaccines that were in development, listed in this earlier post from 2015.

I wonder if the above IBT-V02 Staphylococcus vaccine is one of those three, or whether it is a different one entirely?



Bizarrely, the the University of Iowa Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine detailed in my 2015 post, and developed by Prof Patrick Schlievert, was blocked because one of its Staphylococcus toxoid ingredients became banned because of some bioterrorism law! See this post.

 

[Hip]

@Hipsman discovered a very important piece of info regarding how to properly inject the Russian Medgamal Staphylococcus alpha toxoid vaccine:

Dr Igor Markov in Kyiv told @Hipsman that the Staphylococcus vaccine must be injected under the shoulder blade (scapula) if it is to be effective at stimulating the immune response. The vaccine instructions clearly state that it must be injected under the shoulder blade.

If the vaccine is injected elsewhere, then in Dr Markov's experience, it will not work, as it will not sufficiently stimulate the immune response.

This is a very interesting and important piece of info, as when I was testing the Staphylococcus vaccine, I injected subcutaneously into my belly area (just because it is not possible to reach the shoulder blade area yourself, you have to get someone else to do it).

So the fact that I injected the vaccine into the wrong place (along with everyone else on this thread who tried the Russian vaccine) could explain why we did not get good results.

Having said that, I did get about 3 weeks remission from ME/CFS when I injected the Russian vaccine subcutaneously into the belly, so the belly area may work.



Thus I am now planning to try the Russian Staphylococcus vaccine again, but this time injecting into the right place, beneath the shoulder blade.

The instructions for the stronger Russian Medgamal Adsorbed Staphylococcus vaccine state:

Method of administration and dosage. The drug is injected deeply subcutaneously into the lower corner of the scapula.

Source: instructions in Russian.


The instructions for the weaker Russian Medgamal Non-Adsorbed Staphylococcus vaccine state:

Method of administration and dosage. Staphylococcal toxoid, purified, is injected subcutaneously under the lower angle of the scapula, alternating between the right and left sides with each subsequent injection. Intramuscular administration of the drug is not allowed.

Source: instructions in Russian.

So it seems from these instructions that the Russian vaccine must be injected under the lower part of the shoulder blade.



I cannot find much information about how to inject under the shoulder blade, but the following images and associated captions are useful:

"Fig. 7 The so-called chicken-wing position elevates and defines the potential space for injection at the superior or inferior (arrow) bursa."

Source: here.

"The needle is inserted along the inferior medial border of the scapula and directed parallel to the plane of the undersurface of the scapula, not toward the chest wall."

Source: here.


It appears that the trick to injecting under the shoulder blade (scapula) is to place your arm in the chicken-wing position (as shown in the first image above), which then raises the shoulder blade up, making it easier to get the needle underneath.

And I think judging by the caption of the second image, the needle should be pushed in parallel to the shoulder blade, in order to go under the shoulder blade, rather than pushing the needle towards the chest.

I think the "lower corner of the scapula" referred to in the Russian vaccine instructions will correspond to the point indicated by the black arrow in the first image above.



EDIT: I created a contraption which I used to inject another Staphylococcus vaccine under the shoulder blade bone. This device is detailed in this post.

 

[Hipsman]

So it seems the trick to injecting under the shoulder blade (scapula) is to place your arm in the chicken-wing position (as shown in the first image above), which then raises the shoulder blade up.

Yes, that is exactly how we were told to do it at Dr. Markov's clinic, they also have staph vaccine, but I was told by Dr. Igor Markov it's different then the russian staph vaccine, presumably it has more strains of staphylococcus:

Inactivated cells of no less then 21 strains of Staphylococcus: Staphylococcus Aureus - 15 strains, Staphylococcus haemolyticus - 3 strains, Staphylococcus epidermidis - 3 strains. 1ml of vaccine contains no less then 1.5 billion inactivated bacterial cells"

 

[sb4]

Any clue on why it needs to be injected specifically under the shoulder blade?

 

[Cipher]

For reference, this is how they injected the vaccine in Gottfries' study:

The injections were given subcutaneously in the gluteal region by a nurse ...

It's important to avoid the nerve in the area (even though subcutaneous injections are safer than intramuscular):

Any clue on why it needs to be injected specifically under the shoulder blade?

It could be related to the lymphatic system:

 

[Hip]

Yes, that is exactly how we were told to do it at Dr. Markov's clinic, they also have staph vaccine, but I was told my Dr. Igor Markov it's different then the russian staph vaccine, presumably it has more strains of staphylococcus:

I am not sure if this vaccine used by Dr Markov targets alpha toxin (one of the toxins made by Staphylococcus).

Alpha toxin is a virulence factor secreted by Staphylococcus: this toxin helps promote the Staphylococcus infection.

The Russian Medgamal Staphylococcus alpha toxoid vaccine stimulates an antibody response against alpha toxin.


The original Staphypan® Staphylococcus vaccine used by Prof Gottfries is wider-spectrum: it stimulates antibody responses to five Staphylococcus toxins: alpha toxin, enterotoxin A, enterotoxin B, enterotoxin C and toxic shock syndrome toxin 1.

Staphypan also stimulates antibody responses to bacterial lipase, and Staphylococcus bacterial cell walls. This was determined in a 2004 study by Zachrisson, one of Prof Gottfries colleagues.

But the interesting thing is that Zachrisson's study found that in ME/CFS patients, positive clinical response to Staphypan was associated with increased antibody levels to alpha toxin (and lipase). So for treating ME/CFS, alpha toxin appears to be the key toxin that you want the immune system to target.



When I Google searched the world in multiple languages trying find Staphylococcus vaccines in other countries, I found several vaccines which contained bacterial cell walls, but none which contain alpha toxoid, apart from the Russian Medgamal vaccine, which is an alpha toxoid vaccine.

 

[Hip]

Any clue on why it needs to be injected specifically under the shoulder blade?

It seems from Dr Markov's statement that injecting beneath the shoulder blade results in a strong immune response that better fights Staphylococcus infection, whereas injecting in other areas results in a weaker less effective response.

There may be something special about the area beneath the shoulder blade in terms of immune system sensitivity to vaccines.

 

[sb4]

It could be related to the lymphatic system:

Good shout.

 

[Charles555nc]

It seems from Dr Markov's statement that injecting beneath the shoulder blade results in a strong immune response that better fights Staphylococcus infection, whereas injecting in other areas results in a weaker less effective response.

There may be something special about the area beneath the shoulder blade in terms of immune system sensitivity to vaccines.

Did you try it again and what were the results plz? Hip the amazing, cure us all

 

[Hip]

Did you try it again and what were the results plz? Hip the amazing, cure us all

I am not able to inject Staphylococcus vaccines now, due to the mental health side effects it triggers for a few days after each injection. The Russian vaccine I used is also not currently available.

 

[wolves2626]

Well may be it will be unrelated with the post. In my childhood my tonsils infected a lot so I really do not remember the process
. I suspect it is beta strep because I got an operation that my tonsils removed later on in adulthood.

the thing is my family brought me the inactivated form of the bacteria as a pill from Germany I guess. then, I have never get an infection let's say for 10 ish years time.
of course now after removal of the tonsils I have chronic pharyngitis.

is it the same technology as a vaccine? I mean if this technology would be as pills it would be great .
sorry to write a strange post. May be it is totally unrelated.

 

[Charles555nc]

I am not able to inject Staphylococcus vaccines now, due to the mental health side effects it triggers for a few days after each injection. The Russian vaccine I used is also not currently available.

Any improvement noticed when you were able to inject?

 

[Hip]

Any improvement noticed when you were able to inject?

Yes, substantial improvements, detailed in this post.

 

[Cipher]

the thing is my family brought me the inactivated form of the bacteria as a pill from Germany I guess. then, I have never get an infection let's say for 10 ish years time.
of course now after removal of the tonsils I have chronic pharyngitis.

is it the same technology as a vaccine? I mean if this technology would be as pills it would be great .

You might find this thread interesting, I've compiled a spreadsheet over a lot of different vaccines, including oral ones containing inactivated bacteria. I haven't found an oral vaccine containing Staphylococcus toxoids though. Do you remember the name of the product your family bought you?

 

[wolves2626]

You might find this thread interesting, I've compiled a spreadsheet over a lot of different vaccines, including oral ones containing inactivated bacteria. I haven't found an oral vaccine containing Staphylococcus toxoids though. Do you remember the name of the product your family bought you?

no I really do not remember the name product even my father. it has been approximately 30 years.
however the bacteria is called beta streptococcus pyogenes which was a chronic infection at my childhood. and it was am oral pill. now I got chronic prostatitis and cfs my semen culture is positive of staph spp.

 

[Charles555nc]

Yes, substantial improvements, detailed in this post.

You have put so much thought and learned so much about the vaccine topic. I respect that focus. What should I try to buy at this point? I know you said the original vaccine is no longer available. I have the money and mental energy to try it now. What are my options?

You should try antabuse off label for lyme disease, start at 1/2 a pill a week and dont drink alcohol for a week after the last dose. 100mg alpha lipoic a couple days after you take your dose to detox and prevent neuropathy that can sometimes show up if you go too quickly with antabuse. Its been one of the best things thats helped me improve.

I suspect us sick people have plenty of infections providing the variance in how we react to meds and remedys. A recent retrial of ultra high dose famvir (10+ years ago it cured my night sweats) had me have more energy and libido but sadly didnt last for two weeks after the last high dose. Dont think it helped with brain fog either.

 

[Hip]

You have put so much thought and learned so much about the vaccine topic. I respect that focus. What should I try to buy at this point? I know you said the original vaccine is no longer available. I have the money and mental energy to try it now. What are my options?

You might look into the Markov protocol, an ME/CFS therapy which may involve Dr Markov prescribing you his own patented Staphylococcus vaccine.

Dr Markov believes ME/CFS is caused by a bacterial dysbiosis on the mucous membranes of the kidneys (not the intestines), and tests ME/CFS patients to see which bacteria are present in their kidneys (which can include Staphylococcus and other bacteria).

He then prescribes one or more vaccines to target the bacteria found in the patient's kidneys. Unfortunately his protocol is expensive, about $2000 for each 6 months worth of vaccines.

Here on PR we have a couple of members who started the Markov protocol earlier this year, and we are awaiting reports from them. It takes 2 to 3 years for the Markov protocol to take effect, but Dr Markov claims a 93% cure rate for ME/CFS.

You should try antabuse off label for lyme disease, start at 1/2 a pill a week and dont drink alcohol for a week after the last dose. 100mg alpha lipoic a couple days after you take your dose to detox and prevent neuropathy that can sometimes show up if you go too quickly with antabuse. Its been one of the best things thats helped me improve.

Thanks, Antabuse is something I've earmarked to try at some point.

 

[serafim]

@Hip i have googled Dr Markov and reviewers on unaffiliated sites are pretty unanimously calling him a charlatan, with few exceptions, and based on what they said he does sound like a grifter.

one of the sources, in russian and ukrainian:
https://www.otzyvua.net/amp/vitacell

Curiously there’s no mention of CFS in any of the reviews i was able to find, except for those on his website, which sound very fake. Do you believe his claims about curing CFS?

 

[Hip]

Curiously there’s no mention of CFS in any of the reviews i was able to find, except for those on his website, which sound very fake. Do you believe his claims about curing CFS?

There are quite a few negative reviews, from people saying Dr Markov autovaccine treatment did nothing for their health condition. I linked to a few review webpages in the "Reviews of Dr Markov and His Clinics" section of the first post of this thread.

Dr Markov seems convinced his kidney dysbiosis theory of ME/CFS is correct, and that his autovaccine treatment can cure ME/CFS, as he contacted lots of ME/CFS charities and research organisations to inform them that he had found the cause and cure of this disease.

However, we await to see if any of the ME/CFS patients on this forum currently getting treated by Dr Markov improve. I started the Markov protocol myself, and was on it for 4 months, but then I caught COVID, and this made my ME/CFS and mental health worse, and I had to stop the autovaccine treatment, as the immune stimulation from the vaccines were exacerbating my mental health symptoms.

This is very unfortunate, as Dr Markov claims at the 6 month stage, ME/CFS patients should notice some general improvements in their health. So I was waiting to get to the 6 month point, to see if any improvements had manifested.

But I never got to the 6 month stage, as I caught COVID 4 months into the treatment, making my ME/CFS worse, which threw out my self assessment of any improvement.

We did have one of Dr Markov's ME/CFS patients join this forum and report his improvements in this post. He may have been encouraged to join PR and report his improvements by Dr Markov.