Dr. Markov autovaccine-style treatment using commercially available bacterial vaccines that can be bought online

Cipher

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Hi everyone!

If you’re unacquainted with Dr. Markov’s nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS theory and his autovaccine treatment, see this thread first.

In addition to autovaccines, there are a lot of commercial bacterial vaccines available around the world that are used to prevent urinary tract infections, respiratory infections etc. These vaccines could perhaps be used in conjunction with Dr. Markov's autovaccines to improve efficiency, or even as a substitute.

I've managed to find quite a few (~40 vaccines), so I've compiled them into a spreadsheet that I've attached to this post (as a .zip file at the bottom of this post). I have organized them in two different categories; injectable and mucosal.

The mucosal vaccines are, as the name suggests, applied to mucous membranes, for example orally, sublingually (under the tongue) or nasally.

Mucosal vaccines are generally regarded as more potent in inducing mucosal immunity (IgA antibodies), and injectable vaccines are generally regarded as more potent in inducing systemic immunity (IgG antibodies). When it comes to the mucosal immunization routes, the sublingual route produces the most potent and the broadest antibody response according to animal studies:

pic4.PNG
Click to enlarge
(source)

The most common bacteria that Dr. Markov finds in ME/CFS-CBIS patients are:
Enterococcus spp.
Escherichia coli
Staphylococcus
spp.
Klebsiella spp.
Streptococcus spp.
Proteus spp.

These bacterial genuses are also found in many of the commercial bacterial vaccines, so potentially a large portion of ME/CFS patients could have success with these commercial bacterial vaccines without going through the hassle of culturing bacteria from urine, identifying bacteria & procuring autovaccines. But this is only hypothetical, as we only know the supposed success rate of Dr. Markov's autovaccines.

Some of these commercial vaccines are classified as medications (some OTC, some requiring prescription), and some are classified as supplements. I've included a column with links to webshops for the ones that I've found for sale online. Using a browser translation add-on is very useful for the webshops that aren’t written in English.

Some of the EU-based webshops in the spreadsheet have a pretty limited list of countries that they ship to, but they do ship to Germany, which means that one can use a reshipping company like mailboxde.com if they don’t ship directly to your country. Note that mailboxde.com can only accept packages sent from inside the EU (e.g. Bulgaria to Germany).

One caveat; many of these bacterial vaccine's instructions state that they are contraindicated in people with autoimmune conditions, as there is a theoretical risk of worsening or inducing autoimmunity. In regular people without autoimmune conditions this is exceedingly rare, because the bacterial vaccines that are classified as medications wouldn't get approved without clinical trials showing that adverse effects are very rare.
 

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Hip

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Excellent work in locating all these different bacterial vaccines available around the world!

This approach of using commercially-available bacterial vaccines could well be an alternative to the Markov Clinic autovaccine treatment, and one which is easier and cheaper.

Though if anyone tries it, you'd probably want to give it at least 6 months, as this is the time it takes in Dr Markov's autovaccine treatment to start noticing improvements in ME/CFS symptoms.

Of course, unlike Dr Markov's autovaccine treatment, which has been tested on over 4000 ME/CFS patients and shows a 93% cure rate, the approach of using these commercially-available bacterial vaccines has not been tested for efficacy in treating ME/CFS; nevertheless, it may well work, and so may be worth experimenting with.

Indeed, Dr Markov himself has commented that making a polyvalent bacterial vaccine which targets all the culprit dysbiotic bacterial species routinely found in ME/CFS patients' kidneys would be a viable alternative to autovaccine therapy.
 
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Excellent work in locating all these different bacterial vaccines available around the world!

This approach of using commercially-available bacterial vaccines could well be an alternative to the Markov Clinic autovaccine treatment, and one which is easier and cheaper.

Though if anyone tries it, you'd probably want to give it at least 6 months, as this is the time it takes in Dr Markov's autovaccine treatment to start noticing improvements in ME/CFS symptoms.

Of course, unlike Dr Markov's autovaccine treatment, which has been tested on over 4000 ME/CFS patients and shows a 93% cure rate, the approach of using these commercially-available bacterial vaccines has not been tested for efficacy in treating ME/CFS; nevertheless, it may well work, and so may be worth experimenting with.

Indeed, Dr Markov himself has commented that making a polyvalent bacterial vaccine which targets all the culprit dysbiotic bacterial species routinely found in ME/CFS patients' kidneys would be a viable alternative to autovaccine therapy.
Do you believe Markov's claims re cure rate Hip? Can't help but find it the same as all the other ME experts.. Always seems to be a cure rate (or people tested positive for something) in the low-mid 90s..
 

Hip

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Can't help but find it the same as all the other ME experts.. Always seems to be a cure rate (or people tested positive for something) in the low-mid 90s..
Would you have any examples? Apart from the quack and totally dishonest CBT/GET practitioners, I've not come across any leading ME/CFS doctor who claims to be able to cure ME/CFS, let alone cure at a 93% success rate. Some ME/CFS doctors say they can improve the health level of ME/CFS patients with a certain degree of success, but nothing much more than that.

Doctors can be mistaken, so that's why it would be good to try to replicate Dr Markov's results. Hipsman, who has been on the autovaccine treatment for over 6 months, says he is definitely improving. In my case, I started the treatment in December, so it will not be until around July of this year that I get improvements, if the treatment works for me.
 
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Would you have any examples? Apart from the quack and totally dishonest CBT/GET practitioners, I've not come across any leading ME/CFS doctor who claims to be able to cure ME/CFS, let alone cure at a 93% success rate. Some ME/CFS doctors say they can improve the health level of ME/CFS patients with a certain degree of success, but nothing much more than that.

Doctors can be mistaken, so that's why it would be good to try to replicate Dr Markov's results. Hipsman, who has been on the autovaccine treatment for over 6 months, says he is definitely improving. In my case, I started the treatment in December, so it will not be until around July of this year that I get improvements, if the treatment works for me.
I guess you two will be pretty good evidence.

I meant things like Dr Chia finding everyone had enterovirus, Lerner treating everyone for herpes viruses, Myhill thinking everyone has mitochondrial dysfunction.. Forgot his name but the mould guy who tested ME patients and 95 % or something had mould problems.. Teitelbaum claiming 91 % recovery in his patients, etc.
 

Hip

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I meant things like Dr Chia finding everyone had enterovirus, Lerner treating everyone for herpes viruses, Myhill thinking everyone has mitochondrial dysfunction.. Forgot his name but the mould guy who tested ME patients and 95 % or something had mould problems.. Teitelbaum claiming 91 % recovery in his patients, etc.
Sure, every ME/CFS specialist sees ME/CFS through the lens of their own theories. Though I don't know any good ME/CFS doctors that claim they can routinely cure ME/CFS. I don't know about Teitelbaum claiming 91% recovery in his patients; maybe that's a statement I missed. It certainly would not be true if he did claim that.
 

sometexan84

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Excellent work in locating all these different bacterial vaccines available around the world!

This approach of using commercially-available bacterial vaccines could well be an alternative to the Markov Clinic autovaccine treatment, and one which is easier and cheaper.

Though if anyone tries it, you'd probably want to give it at least 6 months, as this is the time it takes in Dr Markov's autovaccine treatment to start noticing improvements in ME/CFS symptoms.

Of course, unlike Dr Markov's autovaccine treatment, which has been tested on over 4000 ME/CFS patients and shows a 93% cure rate, the approach of using these commercially-available bacterial vaccines has not been tested for efficacy in treating ME/CFS; nevertheless, it may well work, and so may be worth experimenting with.

Indeed, Dr Markov himself has commented that making a polyvalent bacterial vaccine which targets all the culprit dysbiotic bacterial species routinely found in ME/CFS patients' kidneys would be a viable alternative to autovaccine therapy.
So, does this mean, you went from being skeptical at these claims, to you now know this is true for a fact?

Kind of surprising to hear you make a definitive statement like this.

I have no doubt these autovaccines will improve symptoms a great deal. Since everyone knows I believe the Enterovirus "theory", I'll just say that this fits right in w/ it... I think EV or SARS-CoV-2 in the gut has led to bacterial translocation throughout the body, causing lots of bad symptoms, autoimmune conditions and even PEM.

It would be awesome to annihilate some of this bacteria to have symptom improvement, even if it's only a temporary fix.

But calling this a "cure"? Let's pls agree it's a bit too early for that word
 
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Hip

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So, does this mean, you went from being skeptical at these claims, to you now know this is true for a fact?
I am just reporting the results in Dr Markov's single published study, but not implying that Dr Markov's result has been replicated in triplicate by ME/CFS researchers around the world.

I am saying that according to Dr Markov's research, the autovaccine treatment cures; whereas we have no evidence as yet that substituting the autovaccines with commercially-available bacterial vaccines would work just as well — assuming Dr Markov's treatment does work to begin with.
 

sometexan84

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I am just reporting the results in Dr Markov's single published study, but not implying that Dr Markov's result has been replicated in triplicate by ME/CFS researchers around the world.

I am saying that according to Dr Markov's research, the autovaccine treatment cures; whereas we have no evidence as yet that substituting the autovaccines with commercially-available bacterial vaccines would work just as well — assuming Dr Markov's treatment does work to begin with.
That's fair. I guess that is what this thread is about, and not about what we think of his theory in general.

Regarding the commercial versions... yea, I have no idea. Wish I could contribute
 

vision blue

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@Cipher Nice idea. Is there an analogous list anywhere for vrus vaccinee available? Any country have them for HSV1? How about CMV ? Never thought to go looking in other countries.
 

vision blue

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The only novel virus vaccine I've stumbled upon is this HSV 1/2 vaccine from Russia.
Very cool! Any suggestions for how I can read about it and /or get it before I check with dr google? Thanks much for thie info. OOH wait, i see that's a hyperlink not just blue text. ok will check it out. thanks again. Nice thread.
 

BrightCandle

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So far I have done a couple of things, I have used from the anti microbe herbs and other Markov parallel drugs combined with commercial available autovaccine/lysate. From my urine dipsticks I am pretty certain one of my bacteria is S Aurelis which isn't common on Dr Markov's list but its the one I went about getting hold of first, all be it alongside other common stuff like Klebsella but none of the common ones. I finished the first 10 day course of that a week ago. Taking it felt mildly coldy at times, had snotty nose and a headache usually a few hours after taking it. Now its finished and within a couple of days I have felt improved and its sustained. So it did something and it was a positive something. This particular one has 2 further doses monthly so I will take a few more times but it has helped already. I am awaiting some differents ones now for the other major found species.

On a wider note I am also now off about 70% of what I was taking, my body no longer needs the same level of vitamins to sustain it and I think that is gut recovery, my gut is a lot better. The kefir helped, the custom bacteria yoghurts have clearly had an impact as well alongside the probiotic foods and all the fibre I am eating. The combination is definitely working for me and this is all basically treating myself in the way that Dr Markov says I am ill, leaky gut and bacterial infection of the UTI or Kidneys as the dipslide shows (and the biomesight showed gut problems). Treating what I can find wrong is helping.
 
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BrightCandle

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You can just buy them without a script etc.?
Yes*. In the UK we can buy drugs from abroad and do so without prescriptions and in this particular case Ismigen is classed as a supplement not a drug. Its not however on sale in the UK and IIRC on Cipher's list it is sold by an Indian company that shipped it out of Dubai. Payment was via Bitcoins for all of this. I am pretty certain everything I am doing is legal but its not been easy and its involved long waits and some of the companies on Ciphers lists have not been willing to ship to the UK.
 
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Yes*. In the UK we can buy drugs from abroad and do so without prescriptions and in this particular case Ismigen is classed as a supplement not a drug. Its not however on sale in the UK and IIRC on Cipher's list it is sold by an Indian company that shipped it out of Dubai. Payment was via Bitcoins for all of this. I am pretty certain everything I am doing is legal but its not been easy and its involved long waits and some of the companies on Ciphers lists have not been willing to ship to the UK.
Ah ok, sounds like it wouldn't work in Australia.. Thanks mate