Dr Markov CBIS Theory of ME/CFS - General Discussion

[Hip]

If anybody finds a way to try the recommended nasal sprays by Dr Markov's without using crypto currency please let me know! I don’t have the brain power to understand how to set that up (or even understand what it is).

The OTC store mentioned above now offers credit card purchases. You place your order, and the the owner Pavel will email you a link where you can pay by credit card, using a third party website called Profee.

 

[Hip]

Have you seen any results from these treatments so far?

I started the full Markov protocol just over a year ago, injecting 3 different courses of vaccination provided by Dr Markov. Things were going well, and I was hoping to see the first benefits appear at the 6 month point, which is when Dr Markov finds patients start to manifest improvements.

Unfortunately 4 months into my treatment, in April 2022, I caught COVID, and that substantially worsened my ME/CFS (prior to that, my ME/CFS had been pretty stable). So any gains I might have obtained from the vaccines would have been obliterated by the worsening from COVID. I have not therefore been able to gauge whether I obtained any benefits from the vaccines at the 6 month point.

 

[MartinK]

Hi guys, I have already received the results of the analysis of my dipslides.
I want to share them with you.
on each dipslide of all 4, the strains are repeated - Proteus Mirabilis and Enterococcus Faecalis

dr. Markov also wrote: all strains have different/specific sensitivity

Now Im waiting for updated conclusion and treatment plan.

 

[MartinK]

So, I just recieved updated conclusion from dr. Markov.
This vacciness will be in my protocol:

-Staphylo-Primavac
-bacterial bivalent (Enterococcal-Proteus) vaccine
-bacterial polyvalent Urovaccine Enterococcus faecalis and Proteus mirabilis
+Canephron as a phytotherapy for the kidneys

This all with shipping will be around 1800 USD. Is this a similar amount to what you were paying?

 

[Hip]

Is this a similar amount to what you were paying?

Yes, it is a similar amount. The prices went up for remote patients.

 

[Atlas]

dr. Markov also wrote: all strains have different/specific sensitivity

That's interesting.. the opposite of mine which found identical sensitivity for the same species.

This all with shipping will be around 1800 USD. Is this a similar amount to what you were paying?

Yes, my schedule ended up about $2000 all up...

 

[Garz]

hi all -

sorry for being absent from this discussion for so long - i have been meaning to dip back in for some time - but as my capabilities increase i have become more busy in the real world -and have less time for forums etc.

can anyone please explain what the "different / specific sensitivity" means

@Martin - good luck - i really hope it provides some benefit

@Hip - frustrating, the set backs from COVID i mean - i have experienced this also -
the cause of my fatigue is now known - but there is some cross over in the mechanisms

i also had flares of my existing symptoms - including gut issues, weight loss, sleep disturbance and fatigue for 4 months after getting COVID
however, not knowing what else to do - i just stuck to my protocol, and i did get back to my pre-COVID level, and now improved some more with continued treatment - but the setback was very frustrating

i think i have had it 3 times now - despite living like a hermit most of the time - but the effects are weaker each time

 

[Atlas]

can anyone please explain what the "different / specific sensitivity" means

I believe it refers to the antibiotic sensitivity. See this post.

For each strain they culture from a dipslide, they test several different antibiotics on it, using paper disks soaked in antibiotic. If the antibiotic resistance combination is identical across dipslides for the same species, those are considered to be identical strains.

Therefore different/specific sensitivity must mean there are several strains of the same species.

 

[Atlas]

For instance, here is one of the (Google translated) antibiotic sensitivity charts for my E Coli, which the clinic sent me among the bacteriology results.

R=Resistant
S=Sensitive

Piophage R
Intestiphagus S
Ampicillin + sulbactam — R
Amikacin S
Cefotaxime S
Ceftriaxone S
Cefuroxime R
Ciprofloxacin S
Levofloxacin S
Lomefloxacin S
Ofloxacin S
Gatifloxacin S
Furamag S
Pipemidic acid (Palin) — Insensitive
Nitroxoline (5-NOC) — Insensitive

The sensitivity was different for the other species, but identical across agars for the other E Coli samples.

Theoretically the combined charts could be used to inform an antibiotic protocol, but there may not necessarily be correlation between the in vitro sensitivity and the real life in vivo sensitivity. And considering the ways these bacteria could hide out and then recolonize after antibiotics are stopped, as well as other aforementioned reasons why antibiotics might be risky, I decided not to go this route and instead am trusting Dr. Markov's clinical experience for the time being.

 

[Garz]

@Atlas - very interesting - that makes sense - thanks for the explanation

wishing you every success with the treatment

 

[Atlas]

@Garz thanks!

Good to hear you are seeing continual improvement in capability. You were aiming at treating Bartonellosis, right? Have you posted details somewhere?

 

[Garz]

@Garz thanks!

Good to hear you are seeing continual improvement in capability. You were aiming at treating Bartonellosis, right? Have you posted details somewhere?

yep - its been a long long journey to get a diagnosis - including negative serological test results - only to find bartonella clearly visible in my blood by conventional old fashioned Giemsa stain of blood smear - as used worldwide for malaria ( i really think our current over reliance on serology is one of the main reasons we have so much undiagnosed chronic disease )

but now that i can focus treatment on a known cause - i am moving forward slowly but surely - and in measurable objective ways
eg i managed 150 bodyweight squats without stopping and 64 press-ups on my last workout

chronic Bartonellosis is a poorly recognised emerging zoonotic disease - the medical textbooks are hopelessly out of date - and basically say Bartonellosis is just a brief self resolving febrile illness
but there are now reams of papers showing it is in fact often chronic, have a raft of symptoms, is hard to test for and often very hard to treat.
until the 1980's only 2 or 3 species were known - and one of these only present in south America
but now there are 30 or 40 species known and over half of these are confirmed to be pathogenic in humans.

i was given a diagnosis of ME/CFS by my GP's - which is basically their go to diagnosis when they don't know what the cause is - but since there is no treatment in conventional medicine - and since my partner and i got sick at the same time - i felt it was in fact an infectious disease and pressed on with my search for a proper diagnosis.

i suspect a significant proportion of other ME/CFS sufferers are also actually experiencing Bartonellosis - so i do what i can to raise awareness.

in fact there were some threads here that were polls of members symptoms - i was interested to find that when i answered the poll questions, my symptoms were a perfect match for the top 10 symptoms of the other respondents.

i was sick for 6-7 years before definitively diagnosing Bartonellosis - and i was pretty sick by that time - my approach to treatment has had to be multifaceted in order to build my health back up - layering in many approaches that strengthen my body so it can better fight the disease and tolerate further treatments. Starting with the very basic stuff that helps a persons health no matter what the cause:
-sleep
-diet
-exercise ( within a very systematic approach to avoid PEM)
-things that help rebalance the immune system
then latterly adding more antimicrobial therapies - both natural and pharma - again only at a rate that i could tolerate - as they tended to make me more sick before i got gradually better
its more of a methodology -addressing the root cause - rather than any specific single "special sauce" magic anti-microbial or antibiotic

i am pretty active on the forum here - https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30

on this thread i document my blood smear results - where i was initially looking for a potential Babesia infection (similar symptoms) before finding bartonella by accident.
https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4268122&p=4

 

[MartinK]

Hi @Garz thank you so much! Now Im waiting for prepared vaccines. Finally!

@Hip maybe I missed it, but was the injection under the shoulder blade discussed here?
I wonder if it can be done in one person with the help of a mirror, or if the help of another person is necessary, which I assume.
It's complicated?
I'm having a little trouble understanding the whole treatment plan, but I hope I can do it haha!

 

[Hip]

I wonder if it can be done in one person with the help of a mirror, or if the help of another person is necessary, which I assume.

If you can get someone to assist with the Staphylococcus injection under the shoulder blade, that's much better, as it is almost impossible to reach that area with your own hands.

I asked some family members to perform the injection, but they were squeamish and refused, so I had to make a contraption (a sort of extension stick for a hypodermic syringe) to enable me to inject myself in my shoulder blade.

The picture below shows the extension stick contraption I made. It consists of a hollow plastic tube, and at the end of the tube, I cut some slots so that you lock on the syringe.

Inside the tube there is a bamboo rod, and by pushing this rod, it pushes down on the syringe plunger.

I then used a smartphone app called Camo to turn my phone into a high resolution webcam, so that I could view my back area on my computer screen. Even with this contraption, it was still pretty difficult to inject.

Here is a picture of the needle pushed into my right shoulder blade using this contraption:

 

[Atlas]

was the injection under the shoulder blade discussed here?

Did you get the instruction video from Dr. Markov? It shows how to inject it. If you didn't get a link to the video I can send it or you can ask him. There is also a helpful image on page 17 of Hip's remote patient guide.

Essentially you are aiming for the gap under the shoulder blade, when your arm is in the chicken wing position to lift up the shoulder blade. I just used 13mm insulin needles for these ones, that is what was recommended too because the deadspace is very low. They're also the simplest to use because one piece.

Dr. Markov said do not use a filter needle, as that could possibly affect the efficacy of the vaccine.

Yes, ideally someone else to inject it. I'm amazed Hip was able to manage it himself! I convinced my Mum to do it after sharing about the treatment with her, and before starting I wrote out a signed letter to make clear what I was doing and take full responsibility on myself for any unexpected side effects or outcome, to help put her at ease.

If you could convince your healthcare team to help that might be even better, but it depends how flexible they are.

 

[maple]

@Atlas why does the injection need to be there? Seems like such a random spot.

 

[Hip]

Essentially you are aiming for the gap under the shoulder blade, when your arm is in the chicken wing position to lift up the shoulder blade.

Yes, that's an important point: to raise the shoulder blade (scapula), you place your arm in the chicken wing position, as shown in this image, which then allows you to easily inject just under the scapula:

@Atlas why does the injection need to be there? Seems like such a random spot.

Some years ago, when I was doing the Prof Gottfries ME/CFS protocol with a Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine from Russia, the instructions in that vaccine said to inject under the shoulder blade. This may be medical knowledge that they have in Russia, that Staphylococcus vaccines work best under the shoulder blade.

 

[Atlas]

@maple it's only the Staphylococcus injection that goes there. Good question, I'm not sure exactly why, I haven't asked about it... I just know they choose that location to maximize the response specifically for Staphylococcus vaccination.

I assumed it might be something to do with the large area of loose fascia in the scapulathoracic joint having a particular immune response.

 

[Cipher]

I assumed it might be something to do with the large area of loose fascia in the scapulathoracic joint having a particular immune response.

I'm guessing that it's due to the anatomy of the lymphatic system:

 

[Lilliand]

This all with shipping will be around 1800 USD. Is this a similar amount to what you were paying?

Is this just the cost of the vaccines for the first 6 months? Or is this for the full treatment of 2-3 years?