Oxalate Dumping - a Probiotic Solution?

[alicec]

I am wondering whether those are d-lactate forming bacteria

I thought I had a list of D lactate formers somewhere but couldn't find it. From memory, B. lactis isn't, at least some strains of L.rhamnosus aren't, but don't know if this applies to all. I think some strains of L. acidophilus may be both D and L lactate forming but don't remember which. Have no idea about O. formigenes.

On a slightly different issue, I have run into trouble getting the Oxalobact probiotic from the Indian Online Pharmacy. They say they can't get the stock, nor any of the other brands with the same content, though didn't bother to tell me this until after I had sent the money - and only when I asked where the good were!

First time around things went very smoothly and dealing with them was easy. This time around the experience has been absolutely hopeless, getting any information out of them has been like pulling teeth!

The process of getting my money back seemed to be so fraught that in the end I asked for some alternative products though I still can't get them to tell me if they have actually sent them.

My original order was in May - the whole thing has been so horrible I doubt that I would ever try to deal with them again.

 

[Asklipia]

On a slightly different issue, I have run into trouble getting the Oxalobact probiotic from the Indian Online Pharmacy. They say they can't get the stock, nor any of the other brands with the same content, though didn't bother to tell me this until after I had sent the money - and only when I asked where the good were!

Thank you for the warning.
Actually, the Oxalobact issue has faded for me. I still have a few strips that I am taking as long as they last, but the oxalate dumping is now rare and not so severe (fingers crossed!).
Maybe due to taking Oxalobact? Who knows? Certainly, if given the opportunity to get some, I shall jump on the chance to buy.
Reducing the oxalate load, even though painful at times, has been a definite plus. I suspect more dumping is to come, and hope that thus more improvement is to come.

Because during the last year I have faced an excess of material problems moving three times with all belongings from an increasing hostile environment, I couldn't not really keep up with thinking straight.
The good news is we are now safe in a beautiful place, none of our friends or relatives died, and there has been even unnoticed a further improvement on the health front, despite all the stress.

I have now decided to tackle the problem of d-lactate. Not that I really suffer from definite symptoms, but because my strategy has consistently been to try to improve the terrain, until I could find out what was really wrong with me.

So I am trying to find out which of the probiotic strains I have been taking are producing D-lactate and in which proportion.
Did you see that old thread on d-lactate? I found it interesting.
Be well!

 

[Peace]

On a slightly different issue, I have run into trouble getting the Oxalobact probiotic from the Indian Online Pharmacy. They say they can't get the stock, nor any of the other brands with the same content, though didn't bother to tell me this until after I had sent the money - and only when I asked where the good were!

Hey allicec,
Regarding reducing oxalates:
What were the biggest factors or most effective supplements that caused oxalate dumping? And also reducing oxalates deposits? You mentioned oxalobact for the former, was wondering what worked.

Anyways, i've briefly scanned the entire thread, and what I read that has helped are Oxalobact, OCHEK(?) (causes oxalate dumping effects along with other probiotics). Also helpful are B6/P5p and B1(benfotiamine, allithiamine), b2, biotin and b5. I assume lots of Mg citrate/glycinate as well with equal amounts of Ca citrate; if one can tolerate Ca?

My first bout of kidney stones/pain was shortly after high doses of taking p5p in consecutive days and i was not on a low oxalate diet at the time or followed this thread. I recently had another unexpected bout on Sunday after taking adeno/methylb12's...unsure as to why.

I've also been trying to contact that indian online pharmacy for the past few days and wanted to pay. Now I see why as to why they haven't responded.. So I've now turned to VSL satchets (2x per day) which I've used plenty of times in the past. been on it for 3 days and experimenting with prebiotics.

Hi @Peace ,

I only found that one abstract wherein microbes were detected in calcium oxalate stones.

I tend to suspect that microbes are causing many conditions; by producing toxic products, along with the body's attempts to fight them.

I have to assume that as well. I'm trying probiotics/S. boulardii, diet and biotin for candida. I've done rounds of biofilm disruptors/antimicrobials recently with SBOs for it along with other bacterial infections.

Someone from Susan's facebook group has been taking shilajit and testing if it is helping her tolerate oxalates. She gave a good report today of eating higher oxalate and drinking black tea without the usual pain that they would cause her.

That would mean it would probably be good for gout, too.

I can try giving shilajit tea a try. I was going to try fulvic acid a long time ago but held off on it.

Roughly a week in doing a low oxalate diet and eliminating starchy carbs, I've been doing better as far as mobility and swelling in my joints. I can walk long distances, flex toes, make a fist and raise/extend my arms.

 

[alicec]

What were the biggest factors or most effective supplements that caused oxalate dumping? And also reducing oxalates deposits?

It's a very individual thing, not necessarily the same for everyone. In general the single most important things are reducing consumption through dietary changes, B6 (balanced by magnesium), appropriate probiotics (VSL3 is fine), calcium (or magnesium ) before meals, antioxidants (not too much vit C).

Other measures might be helpful, especially if endogenous oxalate production is a problem (an OAT from GPL can be helpful in revealing this). This can mess with biotin and B1 dependant enzymes, so supplementation with these B vitamins might be important. Sulfate wasting can be a problem, so Epsom salts baths (or topical) can be good. Some people find arginine helpful.

You might find Susan Owen's Yahoo (or Facebook) group helpful for discussion of things people have found helpful.

In general, anything that provokes oxalate dumping is a good thing since you don't want to be storing this metabolic poison in your body. But this can be a very unpleasant process so you may need to moderate these agents to keep dumping at a tolerable level.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Several new studies on oxalates came out recently.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I would be thankful if someone could link me to the study that contains the enclosed tables ( @alicec ?)

 

[Violeta]

More good news from the low oxalate facebook group!

" Today I had some cantaloupe and started getting the usual symptoms when I eat something high oxalate. Those symptoms usually last for a few days, but I decided to have a cup of shilajit drink and symptoms went away in 30 minutes and I had a normal day. It is like a miracle to me, because I don't know the answer, but it seems like nobody knows it for now."

 

[alicec]

link me to the study that contains the enclosed tables

I posted those tables. They came from Susan Owen's Yahoo site and that's all there was - no original paper I'm afraid.

 

[Gondwanaland]

to have a cup of shilajit drink

https://examine.com/supplements/shilajit/

In Canada the sale of Shilajit has been prohibited due to high heavy metal levels found in the Indian products that were being investigated. It is recommended to ask for a Certificate of Analysis and / or only buy from reputable sellers.

 

[Peace]

So.. I have been doing better and been able to reduce oxalate in my joints and tissues. Mobility in my joints improving. "Only" changes I've made are VSL satchets 3x a day, shialjit tea 3x a day, humic/mineral blend and reduced prebiotics/glutamine. One poster "Adreno" and others have mentioned SCFA's specifically butyrate increasing uric acid production. Maybe some truth to that. I do notice my joints mainly my feet getting stiff,worsen after taking mix of inulin, FOS, larch, beta-glucan, banana flour in decent amounts when I was in a trial period alongside VSL. Too bad I don't understand the science behind it (or how to salvage purines), lol.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/uric-acid.34749/

One setback after taking VSL at night, I wake up with severe headache due to BBB leaky brain weakened by mast cells, stress/CRH and infection, byproducts and others. I'm very sensitive to glutamine, even with b2, b6 and co factors. Ever since adding VSL, I feel very groggy, brain fogged in the morning and trouble waking up. Oddly, VSL taken in the morning using 900 billion CFUs won't induce brain fog. Maybe it is more effective during a fasting state or something.

Well, I don't need to test for a leaky BBB using GABA test or labs. i think with a longstanding, high histamine diet, chronic inflammation, infection, stress, SigA and mast cells combined with inadequate amounts of MC stabilizers, histamine degraders will do all lead me to believe this is one of the cause of these symptoms.

Gondwanaland
good info on shilajit. Luckily i chose the right kind and i may have be safe. Someone from the company informed everyone that they have third party tested their product.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0098TN3N...063&sr=sr-1&keywords=shilajit#customerReviews

Question:
Please let me know if this product laboratory tested for safety: levels of lead, mercury, and arsenic; E. coli, among others and contains how many % of fulvic acid. Thanks
Answer:
We test our shilajit for safety, microbiological and heavy metals, at a US FDA registered laboratory. Our shilajit conforms to California Prop 65 standards for safety which are the strictest standards in the world. If you email us through our website we are happy to provide copies of the results of our tests. Our shilajit is very safe.
alicec,
It is very individualized though a lot of what others have studied, tried have helped greatly and I appreciate it. b6, b2, b vitamins, k2, mg citrate/gly, ca, lysine, taurine, k, tart cherries extract and liquid, probiotics mainly. Shilajit with raw honey or ghee, colostrum (though I should stop) give me a boost of energy among other benefits.

I reached out to join susan owen's oxalate FB group but haven't gotten accepted (though i requested to join only a few hours ago). Don't use FB very often. though, I joined the yahoo group.
thanks!

 

[CTR]

Did somebody find a reliable seller of Oxalobact?

 

[Violeta]

This is not a probiotic, but maybe something you would be interested.

The herb Terminalia Chebula helps with oxalate issues.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22555028

 

[alicec]

Did somebody find a reliable seller of Oxalobact?

Unfortunately no and I would strongly advise NOT TO DO BUSINESS WITH OMSI.

After taking my money, then informing me they couldn't supply the Oxalobact (nor any of the alternative brands) they agreed to substitute something else. Then they informed me they couldn't supply that either.

I am still in desultory email correspondence with them from an order placed in May. They have my money but have supplied no goods.

 

[CTR]

Oke thanks!
I was just trying to order at OMSI!

 

[CTR]

This is their answer about Oxalobact

Dear Customer,

Your can pay through western union pick up facility by the name of Aditi Sharma.
We can provide it and our delivery time is apprx. 2 weeks.

Regards
OMSI


Here another one
http://www.complaintlists.com/onlin...not-available-but-still-showing-as-available/

I have a child with high oxalates and I really like to try.
I hope someone can post a reliable source here.

 

[Gondwanaland]

This is not a probiotic, but maybe something you would be interested.

The herb Terminalia Chebula helps with oxalate issues.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22555028

Further research on this herb:

Adv Pharmacol Sci. 2016; 2016: 8964849.
Published online 2016 Jan 28. doi: 10.1155/2016/8964849
PMCID: PMC4749770
A Review on Potential Mechanisms of Terminalia chebula in Alzheimer's Disease

Asian Pac J Trop Biomed. 2013 Mar; 3(3): 244–252.
doi: 10.1016/S2221-1691(13)60059-3
PMCID: PMC3631759
The development of Terminalia chebula Retz. (Combretaceae) in clinical research

 

[Gondwanaland]

BTW my newest enemy seems to be phosphate. Does anyone have any experience with it or any input?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I have now decided to tackle the problem of d-lactate. Not that I really suffer from definite symptoms, but because my strategy has consistently been to try to improve the terrain, until I could find out what was really wrong with me.

So I am trying to find out which of the probiotic strains I have been taking are producing D-lactate and in which proportion.
Did you see that old thread on d-lactate? I found it interesting.

Last year I tried a lactate-free prob mix and it caused me horrible fatigue and I could not get up from bed in the morning. Right now I have been focusing on avoiding the Th1 stimulant ones.
http://selfhacked.com/2014/07/17/supplements-people-th1-dominant/

http://selfhacked.com/2014/07/18/supplements-people-th2-dominant/

Edit- they have several posts on individual lactobacilli as well

 

[Gondwanaland]

Did somebody find a reliable seller of Oxalobact?

Sorry, it wasn't my intention to bury your query!

 

[Oci]

Hi All, I am not wanting to derail this thread either but don't know where else to post.

I seem to be back into the oxalate problem after being fairly clear of it for some time. Previously I took biotin - 5,000 per day - but stopped when problem seems to be gone. I have had a problem with candida for many many years. I have very low SIgA which doesn't help. I was using l-glutamine and think that had helped heal the gut but stopped that some time back too.

The candida seemed to be worse of late and wanting to knock it down I decided to take some Diflucan this past Thursday and Friday - 150 mg.

I think it did work on the suspected Candida but then last night I woke in the night with extremely itchy private parts - front and tail. How can I tell the difference between a yeast/Candida infection and an oxalate dump? My tongue now only has a slight coating of white. My guess is that this is an oxalate dump caused by the Diflucan.

Now what? I guess get back on the Biotin? How much to start out? Also, start l-glutamine again - how often? - and no more Diflucan. I have a very sensitive lining to stomach and gut and so can tolerate other anti-yeast products.

I had been taking 2 Saccharomyces Boulardi per day but have had terribly itchy eyes ever since early April. Also funny nose. I figured that I was having a reaction to the S Boulardi as I have always been sensitive to molds and fungae in my environment. I earlier stopped taking any probiotics because of suspected SIBO.

I had been taking Lactobif that is supposed to reduce oxalates. I think I will start that again.

As far as the B vitamins, I have been taking 100 mg B6 (P5P) and 100 B2 plus Magnesium citrate in the morning and either mag glycinate or mag threonate at bedtime. I guess I need Thiamine?

Back over the past year I have really tried to increase probiotics and prebiotics through food but often end up with brain fog - suspected SIBO although I don't quite fit the picture. Perhaps SIYO?

Anyway, I'd really appreciate any help or suggestions you can give me. There does not seem to be an active Candida thread.

Many thanks! Oci