Oxalate Dumping - a Probiotic Solution?

[Avengers26]

@Gondwanaland I do have the same question. Did any one try culturing yogurt with any of the oxalate degrading probiotic?

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Avengers26 I cultured the common Lactobacilli and Bifidobacteria. Sometimes too much lactic acid, sometimes too little

 

[alicec]

@Asklipia @alicec others, Any updates using oxalobact or other oxalates degrading probiotics?

I haven't taken it consistently and not at all for a month or so. I did seem to be a bit sensitive to the FOS (or I thought that was the problem) so only took small amounts in the beginning. While I intended to increase I have been overtaken by other problems and never did it.

In short I haven't given it a fair go yet.

I am about to make a post on the uBiome results thread about my latest gut test which is fairly alarming. I have decided to do some more frequent tests and look at the effects of various interventions. One of these will be the Oxalobact. I don't plan on trying it again for at least 1 month then I am going to do it consistently for 1 month and see if anything shows on the uBiome test. Will post when I have done this.

 

[Oci]

BTW I used a probiotic that included the strains in Ocheck (except for O. formigenes of course) and either that or the anemia treatment or both made my oxalate issues disappear.

In one week from now I will be getting my order from India and am considering to try making yogurt with Ocheck. Depending on @Asklipia 's answer to my question above

@Gondwanaland Can you please tell me what Ocheck contains? I can't find it on the internet. Many thanks! Also perhaps I should know what your anaemia treatment consists of.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland Can you please tell me what Ocheck contains? I can't find it on the internet. Many thanks! Also perhaps I should know what your anaemia treatment consists of.

OCHEK CAPSULE (LA RENON)
Comp: Bifidobacterium bifidum 300 Million Spores+Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) 100 MG+Lactobacillus acidophilus 400 Million Spores+Lactobacillus rhamnosus 300 Million Spores+Oxalobacter formigenes 700 Million Spores

There is a product with all strains that have been tested for oxalate lowering properties and resulted in 100% efficacy:
http://www.iherb.com/search?kw=lactobif&sug=lactoblend#p=1

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/i-need-a-plan.37854/page-4#post-619709
The thing is I KNOW exactly that my (already undelying) anemia peaked when I started zinc without copper. When I had my RBC panel, I also had B12 and B9 tested which were in the high side of the range.

Good luck, I hope you feel better soon

 

[Oci]

OCHEK CAPSULE (LA RENON)
Comp: Bifidobacterium bifidum 300 Million Spores+Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) 100 MG+Lactobacillus acidophilus 400 Million Spores+Lactobacillus rhamnosus 300 Million Spores+Oxalobacter formigenes 700 Million Spores

There is a product with all strains that have been tested for oxalate lowering properties and resulted in 100% efficacy:
http://www.iherb.com/search?kw=lactobif&sug=lactoblend#p=1

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/i-need-a-plan.37854/page-4#post-619709
The thing is I KNOW exactly that my (already undelying) anemia peaked when I started zinc without copper. When I had my RBC panel, I also had B12 and B9 tested which were in the high side of the range.

Good luck, I hope you feel better soon

Many thanks, Gondwanaland. I will certainly order some of the iherb product you suggested. I see that there are some of the same strains as in VSL#3 but still quite different. I am not keen on VSL#3 and certainly the price of the iherb product is much much more reasonable.

I seem to get very itchy eyes with VSL#3 as well as some brain fog. I am not sure if brain fog is die-off of some undesirable bacteria/yeasts or just a reaction. Perhaps histamine?

I am feeling quite a bit better. I think that the sacch. boulardi has really helped and may be keeping candida at bay. I seem to get pain in the lower regions when I consume acidic liquids! Like coffee, tea, alcohol. Hmmm. My doctor would say, "Don't drink them!" I am using low acid coffee now and should just cut it out. Alcohol is only for special occasions.

Just FYI: I have taken zinc without copper for years. My naturopath and integrative doc advised me to avoid copper as I have had cancers.

You said:
"When I had my RBC panel, I also had B12 and B9 tested which were in the high side of the range."

I've been told and have read that high serum B12 levels don't necessarily mean you have good cellular B12 levels. The test you need is methylmalonic acid, I think. I have had very high serum B12 but know that the methylmalonic acid level was good. Perhaps I had been supplementing in the preiod leading up to the test. Who knows. It was a long time ago. I want to have my B levels tested soon. Perhaps on OAT test.

I'm glad that you seem to be doing better.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Many thanks, Gondwanaland. I will certainly order some of the iherb product you suggested. I see that there are some of the same strains as in VSL#3 but still quite different. I am not keen on VSL#3 and certainly the price of the iherb product is much much more reasonable.

I haven't tried it myself though

I seem to get very itchy eyes with VSL#3 as well as some brain fog. I am not sure if brain fog is die-off of some undesirable bacteria/yeasts or just a reaction. Perhaps histamine?

I think it's histamine. Do you have an adequate intake of B2?

I am feeling quite a bit better. I think that the sacch. boulardi has really helped and may be keeping candida at bay. I seem to get pain in the lower regions when I consume acidic liquids! Like coffee, tea, alcohol. Hmmm. My doctor would say, "Don't drink them!" I am using low acid coffee now and should just cut it out. Alcohol is only for special occasions.

Coffee and tea are hi ox. Instant coffee is not recommended. I brew mine from freshly ground beans and it doesn't bother me or hasn't bothered when I was more sensitive before. Alcohol, well you know, taxed the liver, which is probably also burdened by oxalates.

Just FYI: I have taken zinc without copper for years. My naturopath and integrative doc advised me to avoid copper as I have had cancers.

Well, I can't suggest anything in that regard, I have no knowledge, just my personal experience, sorry.

I've been told and have read that high serum B12 levels don't necessarily mean you have good cellular B12 levels. The test you need is methylmalonic acid, I think. I have had very high serum B12 but know that the methylmalonic acid level was good.

My personal view on this issue is if you have high serum B12 and don't feel well, you probably have other vitamin/mineral deficiencies preventing you from metabolizing it properly. You might find this discussion useful.
MMA is a test done mostly in newborn babies. I think that for most adults homocysteine will be more informative about metabolism of B vitamins.

 

[Oci]

I haven't tried it myself though

I think it's histamine. Do you have an adequate intake of B2?

Coffee and tea are hi ox. Instant coffee is not recommended. I brew mine from freshly ground beans and it doesn't bother me or hasn't bothered when I was more sensitive before. Alcohol, well you know, taxed the liver, which is probably also burdened by oxalates.

Well, I can't suggest anything in that regard, I have no knowledge, just my personal experience, sorry.

My personal view on this issue is if you have high serum B12 and don't feel well, you probably have other vitamin/mineral deficiencies preventing you from metabolizing it properly. You might find this discussion useful.
MMA is a test done mostly in newborn babies. I think that for most adults homocysteine will be more informative about metabolism of B vitamins.

 

[Oci]

Thanks, Gondwanaland, I think it is time for some testing and try to see what is going on. I did order the probiotic you linked me to.

 

[slysaint]

You might find this of interest
http://lowoxalateinfo.com/top-six-reasons-why-some-people-accumulate-high-levels-of-oxalate/

 

[Gondwanaland]

Thanks, Gondwanaland, I think it is time for some testing and try to see what is going on. I did order the probiotic you linked me to.

I am not sure to which one you are referring, the one I never tried or the one that initially worked and then I had to stop taking

You might find this of interest
http://lowoxalateinfo.com/top-six-reasons-why-some-people-accumulate-high-levels-of-oxalate/

That is good info.
In my personal experience being anemic was the trigger for oxalate problems, and I think an undertreated thyroid could be the underlying cause of anemia due to consequently lowered stomach acid.

Increasing dietary calcium consumption helped at first, but then interfered with iron absorption with the potential of worsening both issues.

 

[Oci]

I am not sure to which one you are referring, the one I never tried or the one that initially worked and then I had to stop taking

I was referring to the one that you have not tried.
"There is a product with all strains that have been tested for oxalate lowering properties and resulted in 100% efficacy:
http://www.iherb.com/search?kw=lactobif&sug=lactoblend#p=1"

I took 1/2 packet of VSL#3 last night and have itchy eyes again. You wondered if I might need B2. What dose is recommended? I am working on increasing my B vits but are mindful that I don't tolerate methylated ones well. Would like to find a good B complex that I tolerate....ie low methylated or none. I do have Yasko's Ultimate B complex but the amounts in each cap are very low. And they are expensive for such small amounts.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I took 1/2 packet of VSL#3 last night and have itchy eyes again. You wondered if I might need B2. What dose is recommended? I am working on increasing my B vits but are mindful that I don't tolerate methylated ones well. Would like to find a good B complex that I tolerate....ie low methylated or none. I do have Yasko's Ultimate B complex but the amounts in each cap are very low. And they are expensive for such small amounts.

Unfortunately I can't recommend one since I get mine locally compounded. The doses I take are here. Right now I am not supplementing and I am getting B vits mainly from eggs with runny yolks and meats. I don't count vegetables due to low bioavailability (they are good for potassium and vit C though).

 

[Oci]

Well, I like your idea of getting B vits from runny eggs and meat. I have both several times a week. I was told my a naturopath that we get B vits from grains and since I don't eat a lot of grains that I would need to supplement. Hmmm. I will be doing the GP OAT test soon and therefore should not take a lot of b vits in this period. Get a baseline on them and then see.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Well, I like your idea of getting B vits from runny eggs and meat. I have both several times a week. I was told my a naturopath that we get B vits from grains and since I don't eat a lot of grains that I would need to supplement. Hmmm. I will be doing the GP OAT test soon and therefore should not take a lot of b vits in this period. Get a baseline on them and then see.

I eat 2 eggs a day + varied meats. The only grain I eat is white or parboiled rice, and some rice flour for cooking/baking. I can't handle the inflammation triggered by cereals (I have autoimmune disease). My husband overcame chronic lower back pain from herniated disk and the sciatica compression by eating 2 eggs daily. I find that 2 eggs daily gives us a good amount of choline which the liver so desperately needs.
We have been following a customized version of the Paleo Diet, which has been helpful. I have been feeling a need to cycle some foods though.

 

[alicec]

An update on my experience with Oxalobact.

Initially I seemed to be a bit sensitive to the preparation (I thought most likely to the FOS) and took 1 capsule just a couple of times a week intermittently.

Then I took 1 daily for 1 month before doing a uBiome test. I have just received the results, about 1 month later.

So far no appearance of O. formigenes in my gut. I am not surprised about this, since I have been taking just a small dose for a short time.

I have noticed consistent oxalate dumping, several times a week, at a tolerable level. I haven't changed anything else that might precipitate oxalate dumping so this could well be due to the probiotic.

I have continued taking 1 per day but do intend to increase as I seem to have gotten over my sensitivity to the preparation. I'm also continuing to do monthly uBiome tests so I'll be able to follow colonisation, should it occur.

 

[dannybex]

Pardon my ignorance @alicec, but where are you getting the Oxalobact?

 

[alicec]

Pardon my ignorance @alicec, but where are you getting the Oxalobact?

See here

 

[Asklipia]

I have noticed consistent oxalate dumping, several times a week, at a tolerable level. I haven't changed anything else that might precipitate oxalate dumping so this could well be due to the probiotic.

Same for me. I take about 4 Oxalobact per week, no more, because I do not want too much dumping. It certainly is doing that.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@alicec @Asklipia Are you taking something to bind the oxalates? Are you having skin, urine and stool dumping? One more significatively than other?