Joshua Leisk Protocol

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Ok I’ve decided not to update on my status on the protocol anymore cause there are other things to fix first.
there are members here and on discord who have major improvements. Anyone who is interested can get in touch with them …
Martin

 

[perrier]

Ok I’ve decided not to update on my status on the protocol anymore cause there are other things to fix first.
there are members here and on discord who have major improvements. Anyone who is interested can get in touch with them …
Martin

Dear Martin, yes, do what suits you best, but I for one followed very closely your experience, and would still want to hear about it. I am sure others also want to hear about it. You have no idea how much you have contributed by these updates. Thank you. We are all sending you good energy and want the best for you.

 

[Push Fwd]

Dear Martin, yes, do what suits you best, but I for one followed very closely your experience, and would still want to hear about it. I am sure others also want to hear about it. You have no idea how much you have contributed by these updates. Thank you. We are all sending you good energy and want the best for you.

I'm sure he will if he gets any new benefits and has the energy for it. In the meantime I will let you know if something noticeable happens.😉

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I'm sure he will if he gets any new benefits and has the energy for it. In the meantime I will let you know if something noticeable happens.😉

❤️

 

[godlovesatrier]

Yep all my updates are on my blog for those that aren't sure. I still seem to be having a killer immune response by all accounts, so fingers crossed I feel better in a week or two.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Dear Martin, yes, do what suits you best, but I for one followed very closely your experience, and would still want to hear about it. I am sure others also want to hear about it. You have no idea how much you have contributed by these updates. Thank you. We are all sending you good energy and want the best for you.

I have to fight Coxsackie and treat my weak immune system first. But you are always welcome to PM me!

 

[Hip]

@Hip - you know more about Coxsackie what do you think?

I have not been following Joshua's protocols, but I can say that when people throw out ideas about the possible biological pathways going on in ME/CFS, they are at best educated guesses. Almost nothing is known about ME/CFS, so nothing is anywhere near certain.

So when Joshua makes definitive statements about what is going on in ME/CFS or in a patient, I would take it with a pinch of salt, because all biological statements about ME/CFS should be prefixed with "It may be that ..." or "I have a hunch that ...".

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I have not been following Joshua's protocols, but I can say that when people throw out ideas about the possible biological pathways going on in ME/CFS, they are at best educated guesses. Almost nothing is known about ME/CFS, so nothing is anywhere near certain.

So when Joshua makes definitive statements about what is going on in ME/CFS or in a patient, I would take it with a pinch of salt, because all biological statements about ME/CFS should be prefixed with "It may be that ..." or "I have a hunch that ...".

Just like Dr. Markov but honestly, your right. I always let him know that I'm very skeptical... But some made major improvements on his protocol, Ron Davis read it and wants to talk to him... So it's not bullshit at least!

 

[Hoosierfans]

Just like Dr. Markov but honestly, your right. I always let him know that I'm very skeptical... But some made major improvements on his protocol, Ron Davis read it and wants to talk to him... So it's not bullshit at least!

Martin just FYI, Joshua has been telling me since I started his protocol in March that he was going to be chatting with Ron and Janet — but I’ve seen no evidence that they are seriously interested and it’s been 3 plus months.
I for one didn’t improve on it, and had some adverse effects. But also not my caveats with certain things I couldn’t take (ie the Lions Mane). So I did not follow it to an absolute letter.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Martin just FYI, Joshua has been telling me since I started his protocol in March that he was going to be chatting with Ron and Janet — but I’ve seen no evidence that they are seriously interested and it’s been 3 plus months.
I for one didn’t improve on it, and had some adverse effects. But also not my caveats with certain things I couldn’t take (ie the Lions Mane). So I did not follow it to an absolute letter.

Janet told so and that she is excited to listen what they will talk about

 

[Hoosierfans]

Janet told so and that she is excited to listen what they will talk about

Ok, then I stand corrected! Sending you lots of healing energy…💕

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Ok, then I stand corrected! Sending you lots of healing energy…💕

Thank you and for you too 💙

 

[godlovesatrier]

Yeah they've had the conversation, I just don't think Ron's had the time (as you'd expect) to actually chat back with Joshua quite yet. He seemed interested in the paper, but dubious that all ME was caused by herpes veridai viruses. Evidently post research paper Josh now realises I think that there are multiple pathogens and a very very complex immunological picture begins to build that even I wasn't fully aware of beforehand. I guess what I am saying is the paper is already out of date in that respect.

 

[Hip]

Just like Dr. Markov but honestly, your right.

It's more just an issue of using the right language of "might" and "maybe".

Scientists will never make a definitive statement of fact unless there is sufficient empirical evidence to support it. In science, you need to call a fact a fact, and a hypothesis a hypothesis, and not confuse the two. Perfectly fine to come up with a theory or hypothesis, but while that theory remains unproven, it should not be talked about as if it were a fact.

In ME/CFS I don't believe anyone can make definitive factual statements along the lines of: "in your brain, you've got A which is causing B, then B interacts with C to create D, and D has a feedback loop which operates to cause E", but Joshua comes up with elaborate models of what is going on in ME/CFS just like that, and states it as if it were a proven fact, rather than a speculative theory. So it is an issue of language.


I think it's fine to try Joshua's protocols, because ME/CFS treatment protocols are a bit like lottery tickets: you have a tiny chance of winning, but no chance whatsoever if you do not buy the ticket! So I think you are always better off trying something, rather than not trying something (unless it has risks associated with it).



Regarding Dr Markov: yes, he really should be saying something like: "we have a theory that ME/CFS is caused by kidney dysbiosis, and we have considerable evidence to support that theory". Because in science, until other scientists have independently confirmed that the theory is true, it still is considered a hypothesis by the scientific community. Nobody will believe Dr Markov until other scientists have confirmed his results. And if they fail to confirm his results, then his theory falls.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

It's more just an issue of using the right language of "might" and "maybe".

Scientists will never make a definitive statement of fact unless there is sufficient empirical evidence to support it. In science, you need to call a fact a fact, and a hypothesis a hypothesis, and not confuse the two. Perfectly fine to come up with a theory or hypothesis, but while that theory remains unproven, it should not be talked about as if it were a fact.

In ME/CFS I don't believe anyone can make definitive factual statements along the lines of: "in your brain, you've got A which is causing B, then B interacts with C to create D, and D has a feedback loop which operates to cause E", but Joshua comes up with elaborate models of what is going on in ME/CFS just like that, and states it as if it were a proven fact, rather than a speculative theory. So it is an issue of language.


I think it's fine to try Joshua's protocols, because ME/CFS treatment protocols are a bit like lottery tickets: you have a tiny chance of winning, but no chance whatsoever if you do not buy the ticket! So I think you are always better off trying something, rather than not trying something (unless it has risks associated with it).



Regarding Dr Markov: yes, he really should be saying something like: "we have a theory that ME/CFS is caused by kidney dysbiosis, and we have considerable evidence to support that theory". Because in science, until other scientists have independently confirmed that the theory is true, it still is considered a hypothesis by the scientific community. Nobody will believe Dr Markov until other scientists have confirmed his results. And if they fail to confirm his results, then his theory falls.

Perfect! Agreed 100%

 

[Push Fwd]

Hi everyone,

I just want you to update that Martin is in a quite bad state right now. Yesterday he did some more experimental stuff, following Joshuas tips. That made him crash very badly. Today he was feeling a little bit better but crashed again from doing nothing at the middle of the day. Joshua is still very dedicated but we just want everyone to be aware that this treatment is highly experimental and as you can see @The Bard and Martin that you can crash very badly also. Just be cautious.

Josh tries to solve the problem. As I said he is very dedicated

Janina

 

[godlovesatrier]

Hi Janina. Thanks for letting us know. I know they are attempting to correct for a co infection currently. Coxsackie B I think. But I'm really sorry it's put Martin in a crash. I think this protocol really takes it out of severe patients.

Give Martin our best. Hope he recovers soon.

 

[hapl808]

Scientists will never make a definitive statement of fact unless there is sufficient empirical evidence to support it.

This is my criticism of doctors as opposed to real scientists. For instance, the vaccine trials included zero patients who were listed as ME/CFS or even general idiopathic autoimmune disorders, but then we are told that it is totally safe for us with no possibility of adverse events outside of the normally expected ones. They should say, "There is currently no data that would make us expect the vaccine to flare autoimmune conditions, but we are continuing to study." Or something like that. Then they said other than anaphylaxis, there was no possibility for serious long term effects. Until they found it was causing myocarditis. It doesn't shake their confidence in the least, and anyone here who reports effects longer than a few days would be considered a liar.

I would caution people that you are your only advocate and your only researcher and your only ethical review board. Doctors will give you something to try, and if you get worse they will find a way to blame you (because it's never their fault). I approach random people on forums and MDs with about the same level of skepticism, although not taking my own advice I have allowed MDs to do much greater damage to my condition over the years (graded exercise, pushing through fatigue, painful physical exams or PT, and on).

Personally, I don't really expect any of these people (doctors or otherwise) to cure anything. Of course I hope I'm wrong, which is why I'm always here. Yet most of medicine moves with a glacial pace and real breakthroughs that cure major illnesses are black swan events by nature. I would be more hopeful about CRISPR, but since we don't even have any gene clusters that reliably predict ME/CFS, there's nothing to fix as of yet.

Sorry for my usual dose of optimism. As I said, I still research and test things so I'm obviously hopeful, but the pie chart of hope versus expectation isn't particularly encouraging.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Hi everyone,

I just want you to update that Martin is in a quite bad state right now. Yesterday he did some more experimental stuff, following Joshuas tips. That made him crash very badly. Today he was feeling a little bit better but crashed again from doing nothing at the middle of the day. Joshua is still very dedicated but we just want everyone to be aware that this treatment is highly experimental and as you can see @The Bard and Martin that you can crash very badly also. Just be cautious.

Josh tries to solve the problem. As I said he is very dedicated

Janina

I just wanted to add that Josh put a lot of effort and energy into me. I could have said no to the protocol, which I met with a lot of skepticism from the start. We are all grown up.
And there was progress, if not what we wanted.

Regarding the criticism of his person, which often arises on this board, I can only say that it is not based on facts. Joshua has an idea and a dream. He wants to help other people who are not as lucky as he is. He doesn't ask a penny for it. And there are certainly cases in which his therapy seems to be effective. Unfortunately not with me (yet).

No matter how it turns out, I know one thing: I have a friend in Australia.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

No matter how it turns out, I know one thing: I have a friend in Australia.

I am sorry to hear your having a more intense downturn... and grateful that Joshua is helping you.

Sometimes we have to share what helped us, and i am grateful people like Joshua are so dedicated to doing so.