Joshua Leisk Protocol

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Hey folks,

Just wanted to give you an update that I'm back at my former Joshua-baseline and quite stable. Now we address two things: Coxsackie and metabolism.We dived deep into my Metabolon data and assume that I have a problem with CD38 (my fatty acid metabolism is disastrous) and unfortunately a few other things.

I still have no immune response and won't get any under the current protocol I think. We are trying to solve the issues now.

What I can say is that he pulled me out of one of my worst crashes ever (April/May) and that he himself said that he is still learning and improving the protocol.

So I hope it will get better when we address these issues.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Just wanted to give you an update that I'm back at my former Joshua-baseline and quite stable.

That's terrifically good news !!!

And I love your new avatar ...

What I can say is that he pulled me out of one of my worst crashes ever (April/May) and that he himself said that he is still learning and improving the protocol.

I'm so happy to hear that. I'm a fan of Joshua's, whom I perceive to be a thoroughly decent human ....

Hi! to @Push Fwd .....

 

[BrightCandle]

Good to hear you are feeling a little better.

I never got an obvious immune response either, all I ever got was an inflamed liver for about 3 weeks and it remains a bit bloated now but its no longer tender. Other than that the fast sucked a little, they always do. I have had a few off days after giant portions of beta glucans but nothing approaching an obvious immune response. Beta glucans definitely do something important for me.

Joshua has been fantastic, the research he is doing is pretty unique, his daily paper intake on disease is quite impressive and I have learnt a lot just from reading what he reads. I have definitely felt the benefits of that and understand now which functions in my body don't work, whether its a virus or not the metabolic workarounds do. There is definitely not going to be a single protocol out of this, all of us have ended up with very unique core dysfunctions alongside some common ones.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Good to hear you are feeling a little better.

I never got an obvious immune response either, all I ever got was an inflamed liver for about 3 weeks and it remains a bit bloated now but its no longer tender. Other than that the fast sucked a little, they always do. I have had a few off days after giant portions of beta glucans but nothing approaching an obvious immune response. Beta glucans definitely do something important for me.

Joshua has been fantastic, the research he is doing is pretty unique, his daily paper intake on disease is quite impressive and I have learnt a lot just from reading what he reads. I have definitely felt the benefits of that and understand now which functions in my body don't work, whether its a virus or not the metabolic workarounds do. There is definitely not going to be a single protocol out of this, all of us have ended up with very unique core dysfunctions alongside some common ones.

Yes and that's what impresses me.., that he creates a unique approach for everyone based on the basic protocol and the data he can get. We are now also tapering off a few things due to costs that don't seem to show benefits. Let's see how far we can get!!!

 

[BrightCandle]

Yes and that's what impresses me.., that he creates a unique approach for everyone based on the basic protocol and the data he can get. We are now also tapering off a few things due to costs that don't seem to show benefits. Let's see how far we can get!!!

My hope is this process will help you more, he is definitely pulling on levers that impact you just not always positively. One thing you can claim is he is playing in areas that do matter, which after years of trying supplements that didn't work it is an amazing feeling to play with ones that clearly do. The answer isn't there yet for you but boy is this stuff actually doing something, but it shouldn't be if you gave this protocol to a healthy person it ought to do nothing.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

My hope is this process will help you more, he is definitely pulling on levers that impact you just not always positively. One thing you can claim is he is playing in areas that do matter, which after years of trying supplements that didn't work it is an amazing feeling to play with ones that clearly do. The answer isn't there yet for you but boy is this stuff actually doing something, but it shouldn't be if you gave this protocol to a healthy person it ought to do nothing.

It's def doing sth. Before I started I couldn't look at my phone for a second without crashing and now I can use it without any problems... There are thousands of levers we can still pull and see what happens... Berberine wasn't good, but maybe the next one! If I could reach only half of your progress it would be amazing

 

[godlovesatrier]

It's funny how we're all different. I am having continual issues now with what I think is reactivated ebv. The more green tea and glucans I take the more severe the ebv replication gets, basically I start to get acute pharyngitis it just takes weeks to fully come on. Problem is it also effects my mood (I'm currently very depressed), my energy levels and I feel rather unsteady on my feet. However the protocol has given me the energy to go to Berlin next year and get the tests I need at IMD.

So I find it interesting that neither of you have had this pharyngitis type symptom - but you've had your own issues as well. Definitely we are all in subsets got to be.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I forgot to mention that it seems like there are a few other people who've been on the protocol since early march v2 of the protocol who have classical ME (more like my own ME if I'm honest, possibly ebv is the main component) and they are still crashing after exercise, cannot tolerate any beta glucans at all and still having to take spironolactone semi regularly. Seems highly variable. This person has had ME for 6 years

What bothers me slightly is that the protocol SHOULD knock down ebv, but in my experience it seems to be creating an environment in which it can thrive. So if I am right it's sort of failed here to do it's primary mission of knocking down herpes viruses. I won't lie the experimentation is pretty exhausting, I've had enough at this point, just pushing through that apathy to get to the next week/month on the protocol...whatever that brings.

 

[sb4]

Berberine wasn't good

I remember you saying you had diarhia for a while at the start of the protocol. Berberine caused this effect in me also.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Interesting about the berberine, Buhner mentions that a lot in his herbal anti biotic book. He uses them as anti biotics but they don't get to all the tissues in the body he says and they also don't seem to work very well unless they are fresh. Like the fresh berries of the juniper plant for example. I have no idea if this was being used as a metabolic shunt or an anti viral though.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I remember you saying you had diarhia for a while at the start of the protocol. Berberine caused this effect in me also.

Its still an issue

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I won't lie the experimentation is pretty exhausting, I've had enough at this point, just pushing through that apathy to get to the next week/month on the protocol..

I think it's mind-boggling that you've been able to stick to something so multi-layered, so unpredictable, and so drainingly demanding for this long. My hat, if I had one, is off to you !!!!

Its still an issue

Also to you, @Martin aka paused||M.E. .....

 

[5vforest]

Martin, I am so glad to hear that you are feeling a bit better.

> and still having to take spironolactone semi regularly

@godlovesatrier do you (or anyone else) know if there is any good evidence base behind spironolactone? All I have found is the Jorge Do Campo study which was underwhelming.

 

[godlovesatrier]

@5vforest Hip wrote up about this on another thread. He said that spironolactone can't have any anti viral properties based on his own calculations at the low doses mentioned. It would have to be giving benefit by a secondary action. Although from what I can gather I think some people I've chatted to have blood tests to prove lower titers on Spiro. I'd have to speak to them to confirm though.

I think the Campo study is the only study that I'm aware of. It's the only one I've seen anyway.

 

[JES]

Berberine is both antioxidant and anti-inflammatory and some of us don't do well on those, it reminds me of curcumin, which I have a paradoxically poor response to and seen a few others as well with the same issue.

The other crux with this disease is that you can find things that make you better (it has happened to me several times, for the more severe ones like Martin it might not happen as often), but even if you find something that makes you better, chances are quite high that you will regress back once the body adapts. When I give strong immune modulants like the probiotic e. coli, beta glucans or reishi a go, I feel better for the first couple of days, but then rapidly descend into worse.

It reminds me of giving a kick to an old analog TV with a poor signal. With luck you will see a better picture for a moment before it returns to noise.

 

[perrier]

Berberine is both antioxidant and anti-inflammatory and some of us don't do well on those, it reminds me of curcumin, which I have a paradoxically poor response to and seen a few others as well with the same issue.

It reminds me of giving a kick to an old analog TV with a poor signal. With luck you will see a better picture for a moment before it returns to noise.

Jes, that is most brilliant statement there comparing the illness to an old analog TV. Yes, that seems to be exactly what has been happening with various treatments. A little improvement, or boost, and then the TV goes back to its old problems.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Berberine is both antioxidant and anti-inflammatory and some of us don't do well on those, it reminds me of curcumin, which I have a paradoxically poor response to and seen a few others as well with the same issue.

The other crux with this disease is that you can find things that make you better (it has happened to me several times, for the more severe ones like Martin it might not happen as often), but even if you find something that makes you better, chances are quite high that you will regress back once the body adapts. When I give strong immune modulants like the probiotic e. coli, beta glucans or reishi a go, I feel better for the first couple of days, but then rapidly descend into worse.

It reminds me of giving a kick to an old analog TV with a poor signal. With luck you will see a better picture for a moment before it returns to noise.

Yeo. One of the most fascinating and annoying stuff at the same time is why our cells are that good at homeostasis.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Added inosine pranobrex yesterday... 1/4 pill yesterday, 1/4 today. Woke up with heavy sore throat, extremely fatigued and brain fogges. Feeling terrible... No energy... I'm know afraid it could make me permanently worse like some users here. Should I stop it? I'm a bit desperate cause I'm getting weaker every hour and barely can't keep my eyes open

 

[mitoMAN]

Can only tell you that I took inosine pranobex (Delimmun in Germany) for 7 months without any positive impact.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Can only tell you that I took inosine pranobex (Delimmun in Germany) for 7 months without any positive impact.

Better than getting worse