Joshua Leisk Protocol

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Hi everyone!

I thought I would also report on my experiences with @joshua.leisk protocol.
Most of you know how bad my condition is and hey: if he can heal me, he can heal everyone.

Joshua went over my metabolon data and said it fits his theory perfectly. However, a test for ammonia (shortly after Abilify) was very low, which makes me a bit puzzled. However, my glutamate was extremely high (over 100) in 2020. My pyruvate is very low, lactate is normal.

I have very high tires for VZV (over IgG 1000) and midrange high titers for the rest of Herpes Viruses

I'm now on day 18, on the diet instead of the fast. Since I am artificially fed, all of this with balanced carb is tricky and very expensive.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the success that some people have after a short time. On two days I had energy, but the other days I had PEM and could hardly use my cell phone. I don't know whether the improvements have anything to do with the treatment, as things had already improved a bit shortly before.

I've also have severe gastrointestinal complaints ever since I've been with it.

Why doesn't it work for me? Joshua suspects two things: bad reishi (have such an oil because of the PEG) and lots of co-infections. We found the first one: Coxsackie B4 (titers 1:480, greetings to Dr. Chia!). He suspects others and considers parasites. In addition, I received the diagnosis Reluctant Fever in the qPCR from the somewhat questionable Red Labs laboratory. In fact, the results in the Western blots were contradicting before (but the liquor was negative). KDM prescribed me 3 months of antibiosis plus IVIG in 2019. Nothing had improved, so I doubt Lyme disease as a co-infection. Molds are still a good option, as I've lived with black mold for eight years.

Sleep is also problematic, Joshua suspects the EGCG.

Nothing helps against PEM either, not even the highest doses of L-ornithine-L-aspartate. We will see how it goes on. Joshua is so confident that he can get me into remission that I believe him. Maybe I just want it too badly! I just want to live and make Janina happy again.

I will keep you up to date.

Martin

 

[godlovesatrier]

Thanks for the update and best wishes with it as ever. Here's hoping it improves more soon.

 

[perrier]

thanks Martin for posting this. Very appreciated. If the site permits it, it would be nice to hear each person's journey on this protocol, or any other. I sure wish all the folks who are working on this evil illness got together and worked together. But as we say in Canada: lots of chiefs not enough Indians. (I worry, now, am I not supposed to use this expression---not politically correct for identity politics or something) Moderators are free to delete

 

[godlovesatrier]

You can also use the phrase too many cooks spoil the broth

 

[Reading_Steiner]

I don't understand why i've become more sensitive to sugar and carbs while on the protocol ( 3 to 4 weeks ) but particularly after the past week where my energy levels really dropped and I felt a return of ME symptoms.
I had no issues with eating those types of foods before starting the protocol. I wonder if it could be changes in the bacteria demographic that lives in the stomach ? I'm on a very low calorie diet now to see if it can help to generate the fever, but its been 2 days and not seeing much difference yet, although I do feel slightly better.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I don't understand why i've become more sensitive to sugar and carbs while on the protocol ( 3 to 4 weeks ) but particularly after the past week where my energy levels really dropped and I felt a return of ME symptoms.
I had no issues with eating those types of foods before starting the protocol. I wonder if it could be changes in the bacteria demographic that lives in the stomach ? I'm on a very low calorie diet now to see if it can help to generate the fever, but its been 2 days and not seeing much difference yet, although I do feel slightly better.

That's chastening

 

[MartinK]

@Martin aka paused||M.E. Same story with VZV here. You tried some antivirals in past? Any shingles now? Hard to say with VZV reactivation without shingles.

What I know for VZV - Acyclovir, Zostex, Cimetidine. Dont know if Spironolactone is effective too.

 

[Dubitat]

QUOTE="Martin aka paused||M.E., post: 2345081, member: 31878"]Why doesn't it work for me? Joshua suspects two things: bad reishi (have such an oil because of the PEG) and lots of co-infections.[/QUOTE]

I think your experience is consistent with others who have tried the so-called HASD protocol: Some transient daily variations, but no actual improvement. Unfortunately one of of the hallmarks of our condition is daily or weekly variation in symptoms, so it's important to look at the overall picture when evaluating treatments.

I think it's important to be open to the idea that the protocol just doesn't work. As many of us have found, the claims in the papers don't match many of the citations and there are numerous other concerns about the methodology.

This isn't the first time Joshua Leisk has promoted elaborate supplement blends on internet forums that failed to live up to claims. There is a nearly 100 page thread on Longecity where he shares a stack that he claims can fix mood problems, relieve stress, treat OCD, address anxiety, imiprove sleep and learning, slow cognitive decline, and other claims: https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/51802-gpc-choline-uridine-dha/

The pattern in that thread is similar to what we are seeing here: An elaborate protocol with precise dosing and supplement sourcing requirements, grandiose claims of positive responses from people outside of the forum, and a long followup of questions from people who aren't seeing the benefits. In many cases the non-response is blamed on poor supplements or co-existing conditions, but eventually the hype dies out and everyone moves on. At some point we need to admit that these complex theories may not actually produce the claimed results.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

@Martin aka paused||M.E. Same story with VZV here. You tried some antivirals in past? Any shingles now? Hard to say with VZV reactivation without shingles.

What I know for VZV - Acyclovir, Zostex, Cimetidine. Dont know if Spironolactone is effective too.

Didn’t try any because it’s latent. No IgM. This protocol is all about latent infections

 

[perrier]

QUOTE="Martin aka paused||M.E., post: 2345081, member: 31878"]Why doesn't it work for me? Joshua suspects two things: bad reishi (have such an oil because of the PEG) and lots of co-infections.

Inditions, but eventually the hype dies out and everyone moves on. At some point we need to admit that these complex theories may not actually produce the claimed results.[/QUOTE]


Perrier: I had a look at the link you provided. Thank you. But I did not come across Joshua Leisk's name. Are you indicating that he is the: Guest/Moderator.

 

[perrier]

That's chastening

Martin, please if you can please keep reporting on how it is going. Same for others on the protocol. Thanks

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

QUOTE="Martin aka paused||M.E., post: 2345081, member: 31878"]Why doesn't it work for me? Joshua suspects two things: bad reishi (have such an oil because of the PEG) and lots of co-infections

I think your experience is consistent with others who have tried the so-called HASD protocol: Some transient daily variations, but no actual improvement. Unfortunately one of of the hallmarks of our condition is daily or weekly variation in symptoms, so it's important to look at the overall picture when evaluating treatments.

I think it's important to be open to the idea that the protocol just doesn't work. As many of us have found, the claims in the papers don't match many of the citations and there are numerous other concerns about the methodology.

This isn't the first time Joshua Leisk has promoted elaborate supplement blends on internet forums that failed to live up to claims. There is a nearly 100 page thread on Longecity where he shares a stack that he claims can fix mood problems, relieve stress, treat OCD, address anxiety, imiprove sleep and learning, slow cognitive decline, and other claims: https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/51802-gpc-choline-uridine-dha/

The pattern in that thread is similar to what we are seeing here: An elaborate protocol with precise dosing and supplement sourcing requirements, grandiose claims of positive responses from people outside of the forum, and a long followup of questions from people who aren't seeing the benefits. In many cases the non-response is blamed on poor supplements or co-existing conditions, but eventually the hype dies out and everyone moves on. At some point we need to admit that these complex theories may not actually produce the claimed results.

Might be the case!
I can only say that I’m better than before starting it. But as I criticised in the closed thread: we have seen this multiple times with supplement XY or protocol XY and eventually it was getting very silent about these things because it became clear that it was what it was: normal fluctuations of the disease.

Given the fact that I have an academic background that taught me to be very critical with everything I read, I'm not getting tired of saying: it's too early to say if it's Joshuas protocol or just fluctuation and an improvement after a very long crash.

Time will tell. Unfortunately I was never healthy enough to train myself in biochemistry, medicine and so on like others here or especially on s4me. So I have to take a risk based on what I have read from other users. That lead me to the decision to try it. If it fails, I have lost lots of money but reporting about this failure would serve others. So I go on with it.

And as it comes to Joshua: he invests lots of time in me and I'm very sure in others too. His intentions are not based on money-making.

I'll keep you updated.

 

[5vforest]

Martin, thank you for updating us. I hope things continue to improve for you.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Given the fact that I have an academic background that taught me to be very critical with everything I read, I'm not getting tired of saying: it's too early to say if it's Joshuas protocol or just fluctuation and an improvement after a very long crash.

Definitely keep posting your updates. I for one really need to see them as we're both on exactly the same protocol and I value your updated because it gives me an idea if I'm on the right track.

Like you however if I don't see stable gains in health over a 6 month period then it could be a flash in the pan treatment. Which as you said we've all seen before multiple times. Sincerely hope that's not the case though.

However out of everything I've tried this is the safest (not drug based) and probably cheapest option that so far based on symptom reduction has given me the feeling I'll go into remission. No treatment has ever got this close for this many days in a row. Must be about 10 days now in a row with very low symptom levels.

 

[pamojja]

The pattern in that thread is similar to what we are seeing here: An elaborate protocol with precise dosing and supplement sourcing requirements, grandiose claims of positive responses from people outside of the forum, and a long followup of questions from people who aren't seeing the benefits. In many cases the non-response is blamed on poor supplements or co-existing conditions, but eventually the hype dies out and everyone moves on.

I clearly saw an other pattern there too, your are completely ignoring: Many actually did respond very well, reported and thanked, and soon after moved on. While non-responders stayed on trying to fix it somehow, and thereby did indeed became the main contributors to this thread the longer it lasted.

At some point we need to admit that these complex theories may not actually produce the claimed results.

If you're a non-responder, sure. But your unjustified assumed here everyone would be.

 

[godlovesatrier]

This is something we've discussed extensively before on hips recovery thread. When people go into remission or find something that works they go on to live there lives they don't stay in the communities. Why would they?

I know some do but it's actually a small list and they are mainly involved in charity work or the like. Even Jen Brea made a big move away from everything because I assume she got sick of the abuse.

Suffice to say I'm keen to see how Martin and Bard get on as they are both so severe. Crossing my fingers for them.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I clearly saw an other pattern there too, your are completely ignoring: Many actually did respond very well, reported and thanked, and soon after moved on. While non-responders stayed on trying to fix it somehow, and thereby did indeed became the main contributors to this thread the longer it lasted.

One here on PR got into remission. I read the Zlongecity thread. Yes, he is a character. But he wants to help. He sent us pics of WhatsApp messages from others outside the forum who got into remission.
It's too soon to say anything.
I stay critical. But thankful for all his input.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Who from PR went into remission? I must have missed it.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Who from PR went into remission? I must have missed it.

I think @BrightCandle reported sth like this

 

[godlovesatrier]

He's not in remission. He said 1 level gain and his chronic headaches are gone. This is why my summary thread would have been useful because without the data it's easy for anyone to forget. Especially those with ME.

Thanks.