Joshua Leisk Protocol

[BrightCandle]

As far as I am concerned the mods have made it abundantly clear this protocol is considered a medical trial and can not be discussed here anymore. We can not discuss the protocol here, 3 threads have been shut down you need to seek where this is still being discussed. I put officially in the remission thread my status so far, it is far earlier than I would want to make that post but its out of necessity due to that change.

These are my last words in regard to the HASD protocol here.

 

[5vforest]

I am very skeptical myself, but also I have a lot of respect for the folks like Martin who are willing to try this. I understand why the forum might need to close the main thread (legally, ethically, whatever) but there's no way that people should stop sharing their experiences.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Another day, another update.
Energy quite stable so far, can use my phone for a few hours. Started Andrographis 2000mg three times per day and uridine.
Gut issues since I started. Don’t go away.
and still: no immune response. Waiting for the LEF Reishi. But it will still need a week to arrive.
Mood: A little pissed, depressed.

No further improvements yet.

Martin

 

[pamojja]

Started Andrographis 2000mg three times per day and uridine.
Gut issues since I started. Don’t go away.

How severe kind of gut issues? By the way, 6g per day is traditionally the highest dose of Andrigraphis. I would have increased the dose much, much slower.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

How severe kind of gut issues? By the way, 6g per day is traditionally the highest dose of Andrigraphis. I would have increased the dose much, much slower.

Joshua told me to take 4, I told him I take two… honestly, idk all of these things. I’m just desperate but thanks for the warning.
diarrhea one time per day so no reason for big concerns

 

[godlovesatrier]

I used to take about 1400mg andro when I first started. I titrated up over very long periods. Months! Must have taken over 6 months to have its full effect.

I used to feel poisoned and extremely unwell when I took it. It makes you feel very grim if it's actually attacking something. If andrographis interacts with say anything acidic in your stomach like maybe glycine or some dairy foods. In my experience that can cause extremely painful diherrea that burns you. It's bloody awful. If your experiencing this I really know what your going through. Not nice!

At the same time this stuffs amazing. It probably turned me around and kept me milder over the last 3 years if I'm honest. I have a post all about andrographis buried in PR somewhere.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I used to take about 1400mg andro when I first started. I titrated up over very long periods. Months! Must have taken over 6 months to have its full effect.

I used to feel poisoned and extremely unwell when I took it. It makes you feel very grim if it's actually attacking something. If andrographis interacts with say anything acidic in your stomach like maybe glycine or some dairy foods. In my experience that can cause extremely painful diherrea that burns you. It's bloody awful. If your experiencing this I really know what your going through. Not nice!

At the same time this stuffs amazing. It probably turned me around and kept me milder over the last 3 years if I'm honest. I have a post all about andrographis buried in PR somewhere.

It's fucking expensive at Joshua's dose

 

[godlovesatrier]

I used to spend £120 a month to take the max dose every day and 18g a day is very safe (this is actually the max dose in Indian medicine). I've taken that dose when I have viral tonsillitis. Convinced it was the only thing that reduced the inflamation to get it under control.

Suffice to say if I take those doses now I don't feel a thing. Whereas I used to have to go to sleep when I took 1400mg originally.

 

[pamojja]

6g per day is traditionally the highest dose of Andrigraphis.

the max dose every day and 18g a day is very safe (this is actually the max dose in Indian medicine).

To you have the link to the source which says 18g per day is very safe? And that this high would be the max. dose in Ayurveda?

 

[godlovesatrier]

I'd have to find it. It's been years since I read that. I'm fairly sure it's in one of Stephen Buhners books.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I say safe. It's the max dose. I don't see why anyone would take that sort of dose regularly. I've only taken it on a couple of occasions for severe inflamation in my throat.

 

[pamojja]

it's in one of Stephen Buhners books.

That might explain. Since he isn't practicing Ayurveda and can't possible know traditional Indian dosing.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Yes but the source he describes is based on what the Indians take in India. That's how he arrives at the max dose. I've got the book upstairs somewhere.

Anyway I'm hardly recommending anyone take that dose! Just giving my own experience.

 

[cogent_thought]

I completed 2 days of fasting but ended early with too much GI distress . I'm going to try most of the supplement regimen and see how my body reacts. I anticipate feeling something because it's a lot of supplements! Most of which I've taken before at some point. GI distress aside, the fasting did seem a lot easier than usual, perhaps because of the high electrolyte input which I would usually be lighter on on a short 3 day fast. Or just my health is better now. I'm a little hesitant to start taking the ALA as its given me blood sugar issues in the past. I'll be titrating that.

Josh's protocol is an interesting proposition. I doubt it would work for everyone as the constellation of symptoms that create CFS probably involves some different patholiges. Nevertheless, most of those supplements are commonly recommended so overall it's a reconfiguration of a bunch of energy/metabolism/immunity supplements if nothing else. It would be great if the theory behind it was the reason some people had some success with it.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Good luck! Yep even if it's not the answer today be disease. It works on all the verticals we've seemingly seen crop up so in theory it should help anyway.

 

[pamojja]

Yes but the source he describes is based on what the Indians take in India. That's how he arrives at the max dose. I've got the book upstairs somewhere.

I checked all my Ayurvedics books and online sources, and I'm sorry to say but 3x6g is the max. daily dose for some Ayurvedic herbs. Like sweet herbs. Bitter herbs, of which Andrographis is 'the king of bitters', are taken at much lower doses. After all, Ayurveda is about balancing, killing viruses isn't much of its business. Actually translated it means 'science of life'. Buhner, if this is realy his recommendation wrongly saying its from Ayurveda, is maybe ignorantly but dangerously misleading.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I checked all my Ayurvedics books and online sources, and I'm sorry to say but 3x6g is the max. daily dose for some Ayurvedic herbs. Like sweet herbs. Bitter herbs, of which Andrographis is 'the king of bitters', are taken at much lower doses. After all, Ayurveda is about balancing, killing viruses isn't much of its business. Actually translated it means 'science of life'. Buhner, if this is realy his recommendation wrongly saying its from Ayurveda, is maybe ignorantly but dangerously misleading.

There’s a mouse study which shows antiviral properties of Andrographis

 

[pamojja]

There’s a mouse study which shows antiviral properties of Andrographis

That's not questioned. What is questioned is when Western herbalist give their experimental potentially dangerous experimental treatment informed by the western pharmaceutical model the seal of 1000s of years' safe use in Ayurveda.

In the western model even with properly prescribed medication alone in the US the fatalities are estimated in the hundret-thousands a year. In contrast Ayurveda is such harmless and slow acting, that much more die from the disease, but almost none from the medications.

So anyone or Buhner (if he did) has the right to introduce experimental treatments with full informed consent. The safety seal of Ayurveda is thereby used to misslead in respect to safety of such untested protocols.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

That's not questioned. What is questioned is when Western herbalist give their experimental potentially dangerous experimental treatment informed by the western pharmaceutical model the seal of 1000s of years' safe use in Ayurveda.

In the western model even with properly prescribed medication alone in the US the fatalities are estimated in the hundret-thousands a year. In contrast Ayurveda is such harmless and slow acting, that much more die from the disease, but almost none from the medications.

So anyone or Buhner (if he did) has the right to introduce experimental treatments with full informed consent. The safety seal of Ayurveda is thereby used to misslead in respect to safety of such untested protocols.

Ok I'm sorry

 

[pamojja]

No need to feel sorry

I'm totally fine if anyone takes experimental potentially dangerous treatments, as long as informed of the risks.