Dr Markov CBIS Theory of ME/CFS - General Discussion

[Reading_Steiner]

Was anyone so far able to ID their own bacteria results using a cheap microscope or something like that ? I saw there was a guide of the visual patterns one might expect but it doesn't seem super accurate, i'm thinking about people that might want to try the commercially available vaccines due to the trouble in ukraine.

 

[GlassCannonLife]

Hey @Hip would we need to give any special instructions to those other clinics re the preparation, adjuvants, etc - anything you can think of? Want to try and pursue this soon (hoping to get my wife on it) but figured you'd probably just know off the top of your head!

 

[Hip]

Hey @Hip would we need to give any special instructions to those other clinics re the preparation, adjuvants, etc - anything you can think of? Want to try and pursue this soon (hoping to get my wife on it) but figured you'd probably just know off the top of your head!

I don't know how Dr Markov prepares his autovaccines, so would not know how to best replicate them. But if I remember correctly I read that autovaccines do not normally contain adjuvants, as the bacteria themselves act as an adjuvant.

I hope that the war in the Ukraine is resolved soon, so that the Markov Clinic can re-open. At the moment Dr Markov is still dealing with his patients remotely, but the clinic and its bacteriology department are closed, so they would not be able to make any autovaccines at present.

 

[Hip]

Was anyone so far able to ID their own bacteria results using a cheap microscope or something like that ? I saw there was a guide of the visual patterns one might expect but it doesn't seem super accurate, i'm thinking about people that might want to try the commercially available vaccines due to the trouble in ukraine.

A microscope cannot identify bacteria on its own, but can help narrow down the identity of the bacteria, by determining whether the bacteria are cocci or bacilli, and whether or not they are motile (able to swim).

But it is also necessary to perform lots of chemical tests on the bacteria to fully narrow down the identity to one species (tests like the gram test, lactose test, catalase test, and many more). See this post.

Unless you are a trained microbiologist, there is a large learning curve figuring out how to perform these tests. I tried to find a lab in the UK which would be able to identify bacteria, but it's almost impossible to find one which will deal with individual members of the public.

 

[GlassCannonLife]

I don't know how Dr Markov prepares his autovaccines, so would not know how to best replicate them. But if I remember correctly I read that autovaccines do not normally contain adjuvants, as the bacteria themselves act as an adjuvant.

I hope that the war in the Ukraine is resolved soon, so that the Markov Clinic can re-open. At the moment Dr Markov is still dealing with his patients remotely, but the clinic and its bacteriology department are closed, so they would not be able to make any autovaccines at present.

Yes I hope so too.

In the interim do you think they would communicate with these other clinics on what to do? Or is there no point even looking into them..? I know you can't predict what they'd say but just based on your dealings with them etc

 

[Hip]

In the interim do you think they would communicate with these other clinics on what to do? Or is there no point even looking into them..? I know you can't predict what they'd say but just based on your dealings with them etc

These labs which Cipher found that produce autovaccines could be investigated by ME/CFS patients who cannot become remote patients of the Markov Clinic, because they live in countries where importation of prescription medicines like vaccines for personal use is not allowed (which is many European countries). So if such patients find a domestic lab that can make autovaccines, that may solve the importation issue.

Otherwise I think it might be better to wait for the Markov Clinic to come back online. It would be much better to be treated by Dr Markov, who has a decade of experience in treating ME/CFS patients, than an autovaccine lab which knows nothing about ME/CFS, and knows nothing about how to treat ME/CFS with autovaccines.

I am also not sure on what requirements these labs have. I have not even looked at their websites as yet. It could be that they will only provide autovaccines if you are working with a doctor, and that doctor requests an autovaccine. In which case, it might be necessary to find a local doctor interested in replicating Dr Markov's treatment.

 

[bensmith]

I had the same thought as well. Even if we found a replacement, they wouldn’t have his niche expertise.

although i’m sure he could get a doctor up to speed, something he offered to do iirc. But i could never find a doctor who was interested.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@bensmith
It's good to see you !!!! A few of us were commenting on another thread, and damned if I can remember what it was and this was within the last week , that none of us had seen you around lately ....

 

[bensmith]

Thanks yip. I thought i responded to all the threads/messages but i might have missed one. It’s pretty cool!

before i started the treatment i had a bad chemical exposure crash that lowered my base and then starting the treatment i got worse again, so i just havent been up for much at all. Feeling a bit better but having another round of chemical exposure with a new roof has set me back again! Lol.

thanks for thinking of me, hopefully this treatment gets more logistics behind it soon!

 

[Reading_Steiner]

Did anyone find an answer as to how this theory might work exactly, i'm just thinking why doesn't an active UTI cause chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms ? in an infection it should be similar type of bacteria growing that would be creating much much more of these 'toxins' that supposed to cause our disease ? different location of the bacterias ? different strain ? are they hiding on the outside of the bodies organs instead of inside ?

 

[Hip]

Did anyone find an answer as to how this theory might work exactly, i'm just thinking why doesn't an active UTI cause chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms ? in an infection it should be similar type of bacteria growing that would be creating much much more of these 'toxins' that supposed to cause our disease ? different location of the bacterias ? different strain ? are they hiding on the outside of the bodies organs instead of inside ?

Possibly the answer may lie in a compromised kidney mucous membrane, which lets bacterial toxins leak into the bloodstream, much like a leaky gut (compromised intestinal mucous membrane) lets toxins into the bloodstream.

If the membrane is intact, you have no problem. For example, we have around 10 grams of the bacterial toxin called lipopolysaccharide (LPS) in our intestines. Now just 1 or 2 micrograms of LPS in the bloodstream is fatal for humans; but an intact intestinal lining largely prevents the LPS from entering into our bloodstream. So this shows how important the mucous membranes are.

Some viruses are known to create a leaky gut, so perhaps the viruses linked to ME/CFS are creating a leaky kidney mucous membrane, and then this in combination with a bacterial dysbiosis in the kidney is causing ME/CFS.

 

[Reading_Steiner]

Do you think this contrast test for ( mold ) toxin disease might be relevant, CBIS means intoxication syndrome ?
I just tried it for the first time and I got a positive, i'm not surprised really as I know how my eyes are different since getting what I call CFS for lack of a better explanation ( I do seem to have PEM and moderate to severe exercise intolerance ). I have noticed though that I generally feel better outdoors except when im in a severe state, and particularly feel better in summer time and have less crashes I think.

 

[Hip]

Do you think this contrast test for ( mold ) toxin disease might be relevant, CBIS means intoxication syndrome ?

I am not sure. The visual contrast sensitivity test is supposed to be a rough guide to mycotoxin exposure; whether patients would also have reduced visual contrast sensitivity with bacterial toxins is another question. But a quick Google did not find any link between visual contrast sensitivity and bacterial toxins, including LPS.

 

[Garz]

i have a few questions for those people trying this

1. how many people here are trying the Markov auto-vaccines ?
2. are you all able to continue treatment while the war is ongoing in Ukraine?
3. how are things progressing - are there significant signs of improvement from the treatment ?
4. have you thought of coming together and collating all of your cases as a kind of pseudo-clinical trial to try to demonstrate/clarify if something more than placebo effect is going on - by which i mean the possibility to collaborate on some form of documentation that records
   1. your state before treatment,
   2. what Markov treatments you took for how long /what timings
   3. and alongside what other treatments -
   4. and then some objective measures of treatment response

i would like to clarify that i do not mean anything derogatory by referring to the placebo effect in the above above - more that we all should be aware how powerful the placebo effect is - often 30% or more of measured response in clinical trials can be due to placebo alone - which is the reason for placebo controlled trials being regarded as the standard in medicine in the first place ( again, I'm not suggesting placebo controlled trials here - clearly that's not practical and i would think/hope that if this new theory is indeed correct and fully on target - then the response should be sufficiently clear that it becomes mute).

There is so much trial and error involved for everyone living with and attempting to treat CFS and similar illnesses - it would be a huge service to all of us if something like this were put together to help us understand if indeed this is something of a breakthrough and a treatment that is likely to help us - or just another one of 100's of possible treatments that fail to live up to the hoped for outcome.

hope you are all doing well

onwards and upwards!

 

[bensmith]

@Garz - me @Hip and @Hipsman are the only ones doing it who are in contact.

no treatment is shutdown indefinitely via mail. And almost certainly in kiev as well, as far as i know.

3/4

I was thinking of this last night.

normal people are at sea level. Maybe health people are at 2k feet. We are in the grand canyon, some of us at different strata.

i’m severe so near the bottom.

the state i was in was basically a new low, very sick and i was sure i would die in a few years time.


it’s hard to clarify to yourself that you are now on the mule trail out of the canyon, because you are so still very ill.

but i have to say i do think i al seeing improvements.

(Sometimes)i want to do things, i can play video games now some, if i need to i can make it to the doctor, or go shopping. I want to schedule a day for friends to come over.

And its a bit confusing too because playing video games raises me a a level or two, but there is just no way i’d be able to play before this, i dont think.

but basically i took this treatment because i was desperate. I didn’t know how long i could go on, and now i don’t really feel that way as much. Maybe this should be the most important part of my section.

where i’d still like to see improvement.

1) neutral existance without pain in my mind/brain.

2)more physical ability so i can improve my body

3)be healthy enough to take the covid vaccine

Those are the 3 goals i hope to see.

it’s very hard to parse if i am getting better sometimes, but if i just pause for a second and really think about, i’m fairly certain i am. Esp with where i was before and shortly after starting treatment. Also my mom who i live with also says she thinks its working.

maybe it’s all placebo or coincidence, but i guess i’m happy about it either way? I do certainly have my doubts sometimes, A lot of the times even. But when i try and think objectively i think that yes, i think its working.

and maybe the easiest question to answer, if i could do another round of treatment, would i? Resounding yes!

i would love to see this get some research!

 

[Nuno]

We need more people trying this urgently!

 

[Reading_Steiner]

@bensmith Have you ever done the visual contrast sensitivity test ? its an online image recognition sort of test, I did it for free and it gives a score and positive or negative but then they make you pay for a detailed explanation. Supposedly it detects if your optic nerve is affected by 'biotoxins' or possibly the inflammation resulting from them, I wonder if its relevant at all to this bacterial nephrodysbiosis or whether its only certain types of toxins that are more associated with CIRS ( which can be caused by other things than just mold by the way ). I get the impression that not everyone who identifies as having CFS gets a positive ( fail ) on the VCS test, or it would be more widely talked about.

I'm starting to think that perhaps many cases of CFS are caused by
A) a constant source of toxins in or on the body that shouldn't be there, which are being removed at the normal rate but still cause widespread inflammation, as per Dr Markov theory.
B) a varying but consistent enough source of external environmental toxins that might be at normal or way above normal levels, that the body can't process and remove at the normal rate, for some reason or another ( this is what happens in CIRS disease according to Dr Shoemaker and others ).

 

[bensmith]

@Reading_Steiner - no i have but i’m sure i’d fail. That sounds hard for me.

yes maybe so, it sounds reaosnable to me.

@Nuno - i think more than anything this is what i would say. No matter what, whats happening to me, i think more people need to try it to see.

i haven’t done as many things as many here but have done at least 20 to 40 sups/shots/pills etc. almost none of them work, this seems to make me question “is this working?” Which all the other stuff for me was like ok yeah this isn’t working at all. Or works for 20 mins, or max a couple days.

 

[GlassCannonLife]

@bensmith they just have to open the damn clinic again! Lol

 

[bensmith]

I know, it’s unbelievable that putin decided to invade right when we found this treatment.