Dr Markov CBIS Theory of ME/CFS - General Discussion

[Guwop2]

Thanks for reply and advice.How does one join that Group?Is it on another thread or is it elsewhere?

+1 on getting the discord invite

 

[Hufsamor]

@Abha , @Guwop2
Send a private message to @Nuno , asking to be invited, and he’ll be happy to help you

 

[Hip]

Hip has mentioned(I think?) that he was putting something re this together. Maybe HIp has already done that so if that is the case please excuse this and please direct me to that Thread...Thanks..

I have been wanting to write up the process I have been through with performing Dr Markov's high sensitivity urine culture, and becoming a remote patient of the clinic, but at the moment I am more brain fogged than usual, due to catching another virus some months ago, so am struggling to do things.

A lot of the information is in this thread (from about page 23 onwards), and also in the discussions in the autovaccine channel of MitoMAN's Discord server, but the info is scattered

But @Hufsamor and MLGriz on Discord have done a great job in collating all the info, which you will find in the autovax-guide channel on Discord.

So many thanks to @Hufsamor and MLGriz for doing this.

 

[Husband of]

One thing I noted is his cfs criteria didn’t include pem. If, and that’s a major if, his results are valid then they might only work for a specific subgroup.

there must be someone on this forum with access to a major researcher (or even an investigative journalist) who they can ask to have a look into this?

also, please don’t administer vaccines yourself without at least consulting a nurse.

 

[Hip]

How much does the treatment from Dr Markov's clinic cost?

I depends on what vaccines Dr Markov prescribes, which varies from patient to patient, but you can figure on around $500 for 6 months supply of vaccines. Plus there is an initial consultation with Dr Markov, which can be done remotely ($300 if by video conference, $200 if by email). You can also visit the clinic in person.

What does it take to qualify for this program?

At the moment, it takes a willingness to ascend a somewhat step learning curve if you want to become a remote patient of the Markov Clinic.

Alternatively, if you are able to travel to Kyiv, Ukraine, and visit the Markov Clinic in person to be treated, the process will be a lot easier.

In the long term, the Markov Clinic say they would like to work collaboratively with ME/CFS doctors in the US and Europe to provide this autovaccine therapy to patients locally. However, I suspect it is may require independent replication of Dr Markov's results before other ME/CFS doctors start taking interest in autovaccine therapy.

 

[Hipsman]

Good news: Markov clinic’s bacteriological department is trying to determine if it’s possible to ship just the dipslides without the need to transfer bacteria over to nutrient agar. It looks like the bacteria can survive well for at least a week, but more testing needs to be done to be sure!

I have been on in-person consultation with Igor Markov today and he told me this. Later today will also post his answers to some questions that were asked earlier.

 

[seamyb]

Alternatively, if you are able to travel to Kyiv, Ukraine, and visit the Markov Clinic in person to be treated, the process will be a lot easier.

I'd put that on ice for the time being.

 

[Hipsman]

Questions and Answers from Dr Igor Markov
Note: the questions were translated to Ukrainian and answers back to English by me, there might be minor inaccuracy.​

Q: What is Dr Markov thoughts on spirochetes like Borrelia, Leptospira or Syphilis? Does he also think it's possible to cure these problems with urine autovaccines, or perhaps blood autovaccines? - nuneX

A: No, we don't make autovaccines for Leptospira. Also Leptospirosis is not a chronic infection.

Q: Does Dr Markov think autovaccines can help viral diseases as well like Hepatitis C? - nuneX

A: No, if there is no bacterial ("mixed infection" or "co-infection" - not sure what is correct translation) during Hepatitis C, then vaccines won't help. Also, to treat viral infections with bacterial vaccines is unorthodox approach, right now we are trying to use this approach with herpes infections, for example: genital herpes infections reactivate because of bacteria in the kidneys, so we prescribe not a herpes vaccine, but a bacterial autovaccine. As a result herpes reactivation stops. But we have not tried this with Hepatitis C, I don't think this is possible.

Q: Question about Biofilm. Do these bacteria hide in the biofilm in the kidneys? Maybe that is the reason why sometimes it is very difficult to detect them like in my case and also why the treatment lasts so long (2-3 years)? - Rim

A: Maybe they are hiding in biofilms, but I haven't done studies or observations to determine this.

Q: Knowing many people have IBS issues with CFS, in these cases has he observed also IBS remission from the urine autovaccines or it is a better idea to detect the bacteria also in the stool in order to make autovaccines from them also and resolve the gut issues? - Rim

A: No, we don't make autovaccines from bacteria that live in the gut, because that is where they belong, and if there is dysbacteriosis, then we treat it, because it's very common that under the diagnosis of IBS or Leaky Gut Syndrome hides dysbacteriosis that was incorrectly diagnosed and inadequately treated. In this case we treat it, but without the use of autovaccines. Instead we use "tank of spore" bacteria antagonists (no accurate translation) like Biosporin and Enterogermina.

Q: Does the vaccine he make is with dead bacteria?

A: Yes, we grow bacteria and then kill them during the process of making vaccine. There is no live bacteria in the vaccine. They contain 4 types of antigenic complexes: 1) Neutralized toxin. 2) Native live toxin. 3) Bacteria with infertility but whole/complete. 4) Corpuscular fragments/particles of bacterial shells.

Q: I read that Toxicon test can identify the bacterial species that are responsible for the detected toxins, could you please show me specifically where on my toxicon test it shows this? - Cipher

A: No, toxicon doesn't identify the species of bacteria. When I did analysis we had +800 toxicological test results, and in the study we published we said that we tried to determine what types of bacteria secrete what types toxins - psychotropic, neurotropic, etc, but we were not able to determine this definitively. Thou we proved that Enterococcus faecalis possesses the most psychotropic properties.

Q: autovaccine shipping viability (if it's a problem if shipping lasts a lot of days) - Rim

A: The vaccine can be in shipping for at least one week, even 10-14 days. We had a incident where one patient was storing vaccines incorrectly at room temperature, but the vaccines didn't spoil.

 

[Hipsman]

About my progress with treatment: there will be a second course of my autovaccine, but with the addition of E.Coli (10 shots). E.Coli was cultured from my latest nasal mucous test (after first autovaccine course). If I remember correctly, Dr Igor Markov said that E.Coli accounts for 90% of NephroDysbacteriosis/CBIS cases, so it's most likely my hiding bacteria. We were not able to culture E.Coli in urine in my case, but Igor Markov says "we got lucky" to be able to culture it from mucous.

One month after finishing this autovaccine there will be one more course of Staphylo-Primavac vaccine (10 shots). Then 2-3 month after finishing this vaccine there will be one more 3-day urine test.

 

[Cipher]

E.Coli was cultured from my latest nasal mucous test (after first autovaccine course). If I remember correctly, Dr Igor Markov said that E.Coli accounts for 90% of NephroDysbacteriosis/CBIS cases, so it's most likely my hiding bacteria.

I remember getting a throat culture done some years ago and they found E. Coli, so this is very interesting.

 

[Hip]

we proved that Enterococcus faecalis possesses the most psychotropic properties

This is very interesting, given that mood disorders are common in ME/CFS (emotional and stress sensitivity, emotional lability, depression, anxiety disorders), as are cognitive issues (brain fog).

 

[Hip]

Took my first subcutaneous dose of the autovaccine two days ago on Thursday. It's made me feel more tired and depressed in a melancholic way.

I did not experience this when I started on Dr Markov's Staphylococcus vaccine last month; in fact my mood and energy seemed improved while taking the course of the Staphylococcus vaccine.

But Dr Markov has said that you get ups and downs with the autovaccine therapy, so I guess this is to be expected. Perhaps it shows that the autovaccine is hitting its target.

 

[bensmith]

Sorrry mate, hope it comes back around.

 

[Rim1]

Hope this changes fast. Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[andyguitar]

Perhaps it shows that the autovaccine is hitting its target.

Well unless its coincidence something is happening.

 

[Strawberry]

@chilove , @Strawberry , @Abha
It would be more easy for you if you join the discord group.

Sorry to sound like I’m 100, but what is discord?

 

[bensmith]

@Strawberry - chatrooms.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discord_(software)

 

[Hufsamor]

Sorry to sound like I’m 100, but what is discord?

Like Bensmith said.
It’s kind of like Phoenix rising, but different at the same time.
Not in stead of Phoenix rising, but in addition

 

[Hip]

Today the depression and increased fatigue I had yesterday have gone, thankfully, but I am now quite brain fogged and mentally vague, after the second subcutaneous autovaccine injection which I took last night.

But apart from that, no other side effects.

 

[Hip]

A few people have asked me to write up all the things I did in order to become a remote patient of the Markov Clinic (like where to buy dipslides, urine testing with dipslides, how to ship the dipslides to the Markov Clinic by Category B using Fedex, and so forth).

I've been working on a comprehensive write up, and when it's ready, I will put it online, probably in a few weeks. It's already nearly 6000 words. I hope to get the write up ratified by the Markov Clinic, to ensure everything in it is accurate.


Although rather than putting these instructions online, I was actually debating whether I should only give these instructions to ME/CFS patients who request them. This is because it would be best for the ME/CFS community to hear progress reports of any patients who get the Markov autovaccine treatment, so that we can all assess the effectiveness of the treatment.

If I put the instructions online, anonymous people might use them to become a remote patient of the clinic, but not actually take the time to inform everyone of their progress, so we lose useful data. Whereas if patients contact me to get the instructions, then at least I can ask them for progress reports every say 3 months, even if they do not post these details online themselves.

I can't see that any research group is going to rush to replicate Dr Markov's treatment in a clinical trial; so the only way for the moment that we are going get some sort of replication is via the anecdotal accounts of ME/CFS patients who try the autovaccine treatment. If we then get a handful of very positive results from patients, this might then prompt researchers to try to replicate the results.