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Dr Markov CBIS Theory of ME/CFS - General Discussion

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,907
That's great news! There are a lot of you from the UK so if it works it would be quite the news.

I think this remote patient approach should work in any country where citizens can import medications for personal use, like the UK, US and Australia.

It may not be possible in countries with stricter customs rules; in these cases, patients would probably have to travel to the Markov Clinic to pick up their vaccines.

The main concern was that Ukrainian customs would confiscate these vaccines before they ever left the Ukraine; but that does not seemed to have happened. So provided this is not a fluke, it looks like if you live in a country that allows personal importation of medications, you can become a remote patient.
 

anne_likes_red

Senior Member
Messages
1,103
I think this remote patient approach should work in any country where citizens can import medications for personal use, like the UK, US and Australia.

It may not be possible in countries with stricter customs rules; in these cases, patients would probably have to travel to the Markov Clinic to pick up their vaccines.

The main concern was that Ukrainian customs would confiscate these vaccines before they ever left the Ukraine; but that does not seemed to have happened. So provided this is not a fluke, it looks like if you live in a country that allows personal importation of medications, you can become a remote patient.


I think this remote patient approach should work in any country where citizens can import medications for personal use, like the UK, US and Australia.

It may not be possible in countries with stricter customs rules; in these cases, patients would probably have to travel to the Markov Clinic to pick up their vaccines.

The main concern was that Ukrainian customs would confiscate these vaccines before they ever left the Ukraine; but that does not seemed to have happened. So provided this is not a fluke, it looks like if you live in a country that allows personal importation of medications, you can become a remote patient.

Looking forward to hearing how you respond to treatment!! :D
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,907
@Hip so you are doing the diagnosis on your own, then you send the info to his team, who then create an autovax from your data? How much does it cost?

The clinic require your actual live bacteria in order identify them, and they also need these live bacteria to create autovaccines.

(The exception is certain bacteria like Staphylococcus, which they do not use autovaccines to treat, but off-the-shelf ready-made Staphylococcus vaccines).


I don't think it is completely necessary to identify the bacteria on your dipslides before you send them to the Markov Clinic, as they have their own bacterial identification service.

But it's useful to try to identify your bacteria before you sent them, to ensure that you have sent all the different species of bacteria that are to be found in your urine. If you miss one species, I guess the treatment results may not be as good, but I am not really sure.

When you perform a dipslide test, on any given day, you might get one of the bacteria in your kidneys appearing on the dipslide, but not another. So you may have to perform repeated dipslide tests to "coax" all your bacteria out.

In my case, I found a total of 3 species of bacteria, and it took quite a bit of dipslide testing before I was able to "capture" all 3 bacteria, because they did not all come out at once.

I only knew I had 3 different species because I identified them with chromogenic agar. On the dipslide, one species of bacteria tends to look very similar to another species (though there are some subtle signs that you can use to distinguish them); whereas the chromogenic agar turns different colors, which helps differentiate one bacterium from another.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,907
Ok thanks. I’ll try and start getting familiar with everything. And what is the price for you so far?

I think it depends on the number of bacteria you have, as they may each require a vaccine. But for my 3 bacteria, 6 month's worth of vaccines, plus the bacterial identification service necessary to identify 3 these bacteria, cost around $500, excluding Fedex shipping (which was $72). Every 6 months, I believe you need to buy another set of vaccines, as the treatment time is 2 to 3 years.

You may start noticing improvements at the 6 month stage, and so can decide then whether to continue with the treatment.

There is also the $200 cost of an email consultation with Dr Igor Markov, which is necessary to kick things off. Dr Markov asked me to send by email brief relevant details of my symptoms and medical history.

I sent in English, but I used Google Translate to translate my medical details to Russian as well (which @Hipsman tells me is the preferred medical language of the clinic).

It is Dr Oleg Markov who does the translations where necessary.

It would be a good idea to perform the dipslide tests before booking an email consultation, because if you cannot find any bacteria in your urine, you may not be a CBIS patient, and so will not be able to get the autovaccine treatment (although I understand that sometimes Dr Markov can isolate bacteria from the nose or nasopharynx when urine bacteria cannot be found).
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,907
So I take it you have to inject these vaccines yourself? Can't see the NHS going near this with a 40 ft barge pole.

Yes, even patients of the Markov Clinic in the Ukraine are given these vaccines to take home with them and inject themselves. It's a subcutaneous injection though, which is the easiest type of injection to do. No doubt you could hire a private nurse to do perform the injection if you wanted.
 
Messages
55
Bacterial growth on dipslides (didn’t use incubator, it took about a week for the bacteria to appear)
 

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BrightCandle

Senior Member
Messages
1,157
What is that 8 out of 8 or 9 out of 9? The odds that this occurs at random given the general population result of 15% is really impressively remote.
 

Guwop2

Senior Member
Messages
243
What is that 8 out of 8 or 9 out of 9? The odds that this occurs at random given the general population result of 15% is really impressively remote.

I was wondering about this and was thinking about whether some could be the bacteria carried over the from the surface skin (of urethra etc)
 

Hipsman

Senior Member
Messages
543
Location
Ukraine
I was wondering about this and was thinking about whether some could be the bacteria carried over the from the surface skin (of urethra etc)
Dr Markov tells all patients to wash the genital area around urethra to prevent bacteria on the genital skin from contaminating the urine. Hip also warned of this when he made a post on how to do this test at home.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,907
Bacterial growth on dipslides (didn’t use incubator, it took about a week for the bacteria to appear)

You are the 8th ME/CFS patient to test positive. No ME/CFS patients have so far tested negative, but the two healthy controls who were tested (by Nuno) were both negative. Dr Markov found that only 7.1% of healthy controls were positive.

Markov high sensitivity urine culture results of Phoenix Rising ME/CFS patients:
  1. Hipsman — positive
  2. Hip — positive
  3. Martin aka paused||M.E. — positive
  4. Cipher — positive
  5. Nuno — positive
  6. BrightCandle — positive
  7. Guwop2 — positive
  8. Breagjam — positive
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,907
Could also be that even some healthy people have some bacteria in the kidneys or further down too. I like the effort put in by some to test healthy family as well.

Yes, anyone who has people at home who are healthy and are willing to do the 3-day dipslide test, you may like to post their results.

In order to be more economical on dipslides, you could get your healthy control to use the same dipslide for the whole 3 days of the test. I've exposed the same dipslide to my urine on 3 different days, and it successfully detect and grew bacteria.
 
Messages
600
This is outside verification of dr markovs claims. If we could get a few more controls this could even spark researchers interest i think. It would be the most solid finding in all of ME research, 93% have bacteria vs 7% of controls. Thats a big headline.