Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

[mariovitali]

It might not be a coincidence. But those supplements have been tried by numerous people here with little to show for it. Personally, they gave me perhaps a 5% improvement, whereas CB and prebiotics have giving me perhaps a 100% improvement (as in they have at least doubled my capacity). I'm convinced that the microbiome is the most effective tool we have for modulating the immune system, which is likely at the root of this illness.

The exact regimen has not been tried, which is a combination of DOs and DONTs and Supplements. TUDCA is a new supplement here AFAIK. Combining the right elements is important. For example if someone here indeed took Resveratrol but he was also taking Whey Protein at the same time, then he wouldn't feel ok.

It would be great if with one supplement (Clostridium Butyricum) all is solved, i hate taking all of these pills (and spend these $ ) to be honest. In fact, i just ordered Clostridium Butyricum and i will give it a try.

Personally i think that Immune system modulation is not the root cause. But we will see.

 

[Gingergrrl]

Question for all the microbiome gurus: right now am having severe MCAS reactions to the point of almost not being able to tolerate any foods. I asked part of this question in the RS thread but now have a slightly different question.

If I was going to try a probiotic (right now not taking any and have tried many kinds in the last two years) would it be better for me to try Bifido Infantis (Align) which is supposed to help MCAS reactions or to try Clostridium Butyricum which is sounding like a miracle drug from this thread. I briefly tried Prescript Assist and had no problems with it but when my MCAS stuff got out of control, I stopped about 11 supplements including PA just to be safe.

Would love to hear any thoughts on this. Thank you in advance.

 

[adreno]

It would be great if with one supplement (Clostridium Butyricum) all is solved, i hate taking all of these pills (and spend these $ ) to be honest. In fact, i just ordered Clostridium Butyricum and i will give it a try.

Personally i think that Immune system modulation is not the root cause. But we will see.

I didn't say that CB solves everything. What I said was that the microbiome is the most powerful tool at our disposal for modulating the immune system. Unfortunately, there are still so many unknowns in this domain.

I also understand that you believe ME/CFS has the same pathogenesis as post finasteride syndrome. We'll just have to disagree on that.

 

[adreno]

Would love to hear any thoughts on this. Thank you in advance.

Impossible to predict your reaction. CB has helped my allergies considerably, but there is always the chance of immune activation, which may release more histamine. Welcome to the casino!

 

[Gingergrrl]

Impossible to predict your reaction. CB has helped my allergies considerably, but there is always the chance of immune activation, which may release more histamine. Welcome to the casino!

@adreno Great analogy and I think I am permanently in the casino right now. When you said that CB helped your allergies, were you have severe histamine & MCAS reactions to food or more general allergies? Apologies if you have already explained this a million times and I missed it.

 

[adreno]

@adreno Great analogy and I think I am permanently in the casino right now. When you said that CB helped your allergies, were you have severe histamine & MCAS reactions to food or more general allergies? Apologies if you have already explained this a million times and I missed it.

I have mostly seasonal allergies, with some cross reactions to foods. No severe MCAS.

But increasing butyrate (one of the main functions of CB) should in theory help food allergies as well.

 

[Gingergrrl]

I have mostly seasonal allergies, with some cross reactions to foods. No severe MCAS.

Thanks! My gut opinion is to try the Bifido Infantis given my specific situation and maybe try the CB much further down the line. Would love to hear any other opinions (especially anyone with severe MCAS reactions.)

 

[mariovitali]

@adreno


Actually i said that both Post-Finasteride Syndrome and Accutane use side effects resemble CFS and could have the same basis :

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/roaccutane-caused-depression-isotretinoin.12117/

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/propecia-finasteride-and-progesterone.34424

 

[Sasha]

@Sasha, let me entertain you while you wait for your Miyarisan.

What are you going to do?

 

[adreno]

@adreno


Actually i said that both Post-Finasteride Syndrome and Accutane use side effects resemble CFS and could have the same basis

And I disagree with that. But perhaps this is a discussion for another thread?

 

[Sidereal]

And I disagree with that. But perhaps this is a discussion for another thread?

I second this.

A bunch of supplements is never going to be able to replace a host of metabolic and immune processes that have broken down as a result of butyrate shortage.

 

[adreno]

Just to be clear: I'm all for reducing ER stress, removing environmental toxins, etc. But the main point here is that we know that most diseases arise as a consequence of genome-environment interactions, and the microbiome is simply a huge part of the environment. Doing the others things won't matter much if your microbiome is still screwed up.

 

[mariovitali]

@adreno

You are right, i do not want to derail this Thread (and forgive me if i did) so i will be discussing this in the Unfolded Protein Response Thread.



Hopefully we will see Recoveries with Butyrate supplementation, after all this is what we all should care about.

I sincerely hope this works. As i said i already ordered Miyarisan from eBay.

 

[Sasha]

But the main point here is that we know that most diseases arise as a consequence of genome-environment interactions, and the microbiome is simply a huge part of the environment.

In the book I've just been reading (The Good Gut), the authors make the point that the microbiome is like a second, malleable genome that we have, in addition to our inherited genome that we can't change. But what we put in (food, pre/probiotics, etc.) would be the environment.

 

[adreno]

In the book I've just been reading (The Good Gut), the authors make the point that the microbiome is like a second, malleable genome that we have, in addition to our inherited genome that we can't change. But what we put in (food, pre/probiotics, etc.) would be the environment.

All bacteria come from the environment. But if I understand correctly, the microbiome affects gene expression, protein folding, etc. In that way, the microbiome acts as an extended genome.

 

[anne_likes_red]

What are you going to do?

I'm plotting ...while I radiate from the stomach level...

 

[Sasha]

All bacteria come from the environment. But if I understand correctly, the microbiome affects gene expression, protein folding, etc. In that way, the microbiome acts as an extended genome.

I agree, they all come from the environment but once they're in us, they're like a second organ that has a malleable genome. And that organ puts out all sorts of substances that affect all sorts of systems.

 

[Sasha]

I'm plotting ...while I radiate from the stomach level...

 

[JPV]

I'm plotting ...while I radiate from the stomach level...

LOL.. I just noticed that your cat avatar is radiating with healthily microbiota just like the Miyarisan cartoon mascot...

 

[Asklipia]

Well, you see?
There is a new mood on this thread…