Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

alicec

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I've been taking one tablet twice daily for 3 days. I immediately noticed a marked sense of well-being but also an increase in lymphatic congestion. I was already struggling a little with the latter as a result of experimenting with small amounts of various prebiotics but with my usual impatience didn't let this completely settle before trying the Miyarisan.

When the lymphatic aching got worse I decided to back off for a few days and will try again soon with just one tablet daily. I'll be very interested to see if the increased feeling of well-being repeats itself or if this was just coincidence. In any case the probiotic definitely had an effect on me, albeit one I need to control carefully.

Interestingly I have tried AOR 3 in the past (2 x 1 daily) for months at a time with no effects one way or the other. As a result of dietary changes (huge increase in RS3 intake) and addition of small amounts of various concentrated prebiotics, it may be that I have stimulated other populations that now enable the C. butyricum to exert an effect, or maybe the mixture somehow cancels itself out.

Just for the sake of completeness I will add that in general I am not sensitive to probiotics, or not the usual mixtures and have swallowed huge amounts for many years. However as a result of the resistant starch thread I have changed strategy and experimented with very small amounts of a few single species, viz B. longum subsp infantis, Mutaflor, BOD and now Miyarisan. I have been exquisitely sensitive to all of these.

I interpret this to mean that they are directly influencing composition of gut flora. The mixtures of the usual suspects may at best have been preventing something really bad from taking up residence but not actually doing anything much. I no longer bother continuing any probiotic preparation that doesn't stimulate some obvious response fairly quickly.

Alice
 

ariel

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Interestingly I have tried AOR 3 in the past (2 x 1 daily) for months at a time with no effects one way or the other. As a result of dietary changes (huge increase in RS3 intake) and addition of small amounts of various concentrated prebiotics, it may be that I have stimulated other populations that now enable the C. butyricum to exert an effect, or maybe the mixture somehow cancels itself out.
Yes, thank you for this. I've been holding off on the single strain as I already have some AOR3 and wasn't sure if it was worth my while to get the Miyarisan. I will continue to hold off mostly because money is tight at the moment, but love to hear how it goes.
 

JPV

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I think (the right kind of) microbiome diversity is probably beneficial. If the other strains in AOR 3 aren't causing any negative reactions I'm not sure there's any reason to switch products. However, from the cost standpoint, Miyarisan is very cheap compared to most probiotics. It costs about $17 USD for 630 tablets. Depending on an individual's dose tolerance that could last anywhere from 1 to 6 months.
 
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trails

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Been lurking for about a year on this forum - first time posting. One of JPV's posts states "Clostridium butyricum MIYAIRI 588 strain has been used as a probiotic for both non-antimicrobial induced diarrhea and antimicrobial associated diarrhea in humans."

Based on the above quote, can anyone comment as to the potential efficacy and/or wisdom of a long-time sufferer of chronic and severe constipation in taking clostridium butyricum?
 

JPV

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nybody noticed this 'Mendus' (mend us, geddit?) initiative for patients experimenting on themselves in groups?
Yeah, I think something like this is potentially a very good idea. The ad-hoc nature of aggregating information, on a forum like this, makes it very hard to get an adequate overview of any given intervention. For instance, I've commented numerous times how information on Freddd's methylation protocol is scattered over so many dozens of threads and has become so convoluted that it's virtually impossible to follow anymore.
 
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Sasha

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It would be nice to get some data on the effects of C. butyricum on us, even though a lot of us are trying lots of things so it would be a bit of a noisy signal.

Anybody noticed this 'Mendus' (mend us, geddit?) initiative for patients experimenting on themselves in groups?

http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/201...bromyalgia-patient-produced-treatment-trials/
Actually, having looked again at that, you propose a study and then you all wait until enough people have signed up to proceed... not sure that that's the way to go. I think people just want to get on with things.
 

Sasha

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...but it would be good if we maybe did a questionnaire before we started, and then at various intervals, to track any changes.

I hate to see data wasted. :eek:
 

trails

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Just to clarify my above post...I am in no way asking for medical advice. I know that most of you have researched the microbiome and associated topics in much more depth than I have. As such, if you'd care to reply to my post, I would appreciate your informed theoretical opinion.
 
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Hi @Sasha

Did you buy clostridium butyricum from Amazon UK? I am struggling to find it. I can only find it as part of the AOR 3 strain formula. Am really keen to try it.......

Thanks
Mels
 

Sasha

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Hi @Sasha

Did you buy clostridium butyricum from Amazon UK? I am struggling to find it. I can only find it as part of the AOR 3 strain formula. Am really keen to try it.......

Thanks
Mels
Sorry, I got confused - I bought it from Amazon.com (US Amazon). It ships from Japan.

It's also available on UK Ebay, but again, it ships from Japan.
 

adreno

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Based on the above quote, can anyone comment as to the potential efficacy and/or wisdom of a long-time sufferer of chronic and severe constipation in taking clostridium butyricum?
I would guess that it would work equally well for constipation. It's all just dysbiosis, anyway. Or perhaps you are not getting enough fibers to move things along?
 

Sasha

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Ahah, I feel much better now! Was thinking the brain had really had it!

Thank you for replying so promptly.

Happy weekend everybody

Mels
I've got fed up of waiting for the Amazon.com one (expedited shipping wasn't available) so I've just looked down the list of the UK Ebay ones and found one that does expedited shipping (most just do economy shipping). It's the one that costs £21.69.

I just hope they're storing it OK! No way of telling with these things. :(
 
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I've got fed up of waiting for the Amazon.com one (expedited shipping wasn't available) so I've just looked down the list of the UK Ebay ones and found one that does expedited shipping (most just do economy shipping). It's the one that costs £21.69.

I just hope they're storing it OK! No way of telling with these things. :(
What a star! I can indulge in some retail therapy over the weekend........

Thank you
 

JPV

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I just hope they're storing it OK! No way of telling with these things.
I can't claim any authority on the subject but I believe that it's a soil based organism so I imagine that it's pretty stable. I don't believe that it requires refrigeration either. My bottle also has an expiration date of January 2019 so it seems to have a pretty long shelf life.
 

Sasha

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I can't claim any authority on the subject but I believe that it's a soil based organism so I imagine that it's pretty stable. I don't believe that it requires refrigeration either. My bottle also has an expiration date of January 2019 so it seems to have a pretty long shelf life.
Brilliant! Thanks - that's reassuring. :thumbsup:
 

trails

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Thanks, adreno. I'm not looking to use the clostridium butyricum as a treatment for my constipation. Rather, I would like to give it a try as it relates to CFS symptoms. I just didn't want to knowingly exacerbate my constipation issue if it's extremely likely to do so by virtue of it being designed to alleviate diarrhea . As you can tell, my knowledge of the science behind these issues is unfortunately very limited.
 

JPV

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@trails, do you supplement with Magnesium? The oxide form is probably best for constipation. As a matter of fact, it's probably the only thing that this particular form is actually any good for. You might find that it may work a little too good in this respect. The only issue will be a little experimenting to get the right dose. But any form of magnesium, expect for transdermal, should do the trick, if you take enough of it.