Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

JPV

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S. boulardii is recommended to fight Clostridium difficile, and I am afraid other species under the Clostridium genus might also be sensitive to it.
I think that one of the main uses of Clostridium butyricum is an effective treatment against Clostridium difficile...
Clostridium butyricum (Wikipedia)

Its usefulness stems primarily from its ability to interfere with the growth of highly pathogenic Clostridium difficile by antagonizing its multiplication.[3] It is often used in Japanese hospitals for C. difficile prophylaxis amongst in-patients and, particularly, during administration of certain powerful antibiotics (i.e.: Levofloxacin) associated with opportunistic C. difficile infection.
 

adreno

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Abstract

Antibiotic-associated diarrhea (AAD) is one of the most common complications of most types of antibiotics. Our aim was to determine the efficacy of Clostridium butyricum, Bifidobacterium infantis, and their mixture for AAD treatment in mice. AAD models were administered with single probiotic strain and probiotic mixture for short term and long term to evaluate the changes of the composition and diversity of intestinal microbiota, histopathology of the colon, and the systemic inflammation. Our data indicated that long-term probiotic therapy, but not short-term course, exerted beneficial effects on the restoration of the intestinal microbiota, the recovery of the tissue architecture, and attenuation of systemic inflammation. All predominant fecal bacteria reached normal level after the long-term probiotic mixture treatment, while IL-10, IFN-γ, and TNF-α also returned to normal level. However, the efficacy for AAD was time dependent and probiotic strain specific. Short-term administration of probiotic strains or mixture showed no apparent positive effects for AAD. In addition, the beneficial effects of C. butyricum combined with B. infantis probiotic mixture were superior to their single strain. This research showed that supplementation with C. butyricum combined with B. infantis probiotic mixture may be a simple and effective method for AAD treatment.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2015/582048/
 

JPV

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I actually came across that earlier today. B. infantis is next on the list for me as I think diversity is very beneficial. Many people on the forum seem to have had good luck with it. It's also readily available as a single strain.
 

Sasha

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It ships directly from Japan. Amazon estimates that it can take anywhere from 4-6 weeks for regular delivery. There are several retailers and some offer quicker delivery for an extra cost. I found one that charged $15.00 USD (some companies charge more) for expedited shipping and it arrived in about a week to where I live in California.
I ordered mine via UK Amazon and couldn't see one that offered expedited delivery. I wonder if I should have ordered via US Amazon.

Would you mind saying which one you ordered from?
 

Sidereal

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I got standard delivery from US Amazon to Ireland. Delivery was ridiculously cheap, like 2 euro. It shipped from Japan and arrived surprisingly fast, less than a week if I recall correctly. Ordering stuff from UK Amazon has no advantage in situations such as this where it's being shipped from an outside vendor anyway. My UK Amazon log in details and all the stored CC information worked with US Amazon.
 

Rand56

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I took 8 tabs of Miyarisan yesterday will no ill effects. I think I need to point out something though, "just in case" this could be a possible reason why I have not had as severe symptoms than others starting out on Miyarisan. I also do not want to de-rail this thread talking about Kutaj, which I had been taking for awhile before I even started on the Miyarisan. Kutaj is an anti-dysentary herb. I "suppose" it is entirely possible that my gut functioning has been helped some <maybe helping in part because it's anti-inflammatory?> and this is why I have not had any more severe gut reactions? I don't know. I only started to get some cramping pains when I upped it to 6 tabs a day on the Miyarisan, and still those pains were tolerable and not that severe. It could also be entirely possible that my gut functioning is not nearly as severe as others. This is probably the case. Although this does not totally make sense to me either, because awhile back when I took a very small amount of Candex I had a severe bloating reaction to it. Although I suppose it's also entirely possible that I was just allergic to it.

Edit: Just for more clarification. I did not start taking Kutaj for it being an anti-dysentary. I learned it has conessine in it which is a histamine H3 antagonist. I figured "maybe" it could help my depression, which it has. Then @Sidereal pointed out to me that my AD effect may not entirely stem from the conessine. Basically it could be the herb as a prebiotic effecting the microbiome giving me an AD effect.
 
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Sidereal

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I would also like to point your attention to this article, originally posted by @Antares in NYC, describing the importance of clostridia species:

Among Trillions of Microbes in the Gut, a Few Are Special
I would just add that, if I understood correctly what I've read of the Japanese literature, this Miyari organism that we're using is classified among Cluster I Clostridia. It's beneficial but it's not a member of the very special Cluster IV and XIVa butyrate-producing Clostridia that are typically studied and found to be crucial to health. It is possible we're expanding those also by supplementing their cousin, I don't know.
 

JPV

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I took 8 tabs of Miyarisan yesterday will no ill effects. I think I need to point out something though, "just in case" this could be a possible reason why I have not had as severe symptoms than others starting out on Miyarisan.
Tolerance seems very relative. I believe that @Asklipia and her husband were fine each taking 6 tablets a day and were talking about upping it to 12.
 

adreno

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I would just add that, if I understood correctly what I've read of the Japanese literature, this Miyari organism that we're using is classified among Cluster I Clostridia. It's beneficial but it's not a member of the very special Cluster IV and XIVa butyrate-producing Clostridia that are typically studied and found to be crucial to health. It is possible we're expanding those also by supplementing their cousin, I don't know.
Ok, thanks, I didn't know that. Now I would like to get my hands on some of those cluster IV and XIVa species!
 

Sidereal

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Ok, thanks, I didn't know that. Now I would like to get my hands on some of those cluster IV and XIVa species!
You can't, that's the problem. None of the species truly relevant to health are available on the market.
 

JPV

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How to Make Microbiota Capsules


“just think playdough”

Directions:
  • Open the capsules and put them into separate containers.
  • Put on gloves.
  • Roll sample like playdough to a shape that will slip easily into the smaller capsules.
  • Fill the smaller capsules taking care to protect them from moisture. Some people use a syringe for this part.
  • Change gloves.
  • Place the smaller capsules into the larger capsules.
  • Consume capsules on an empty stomach to minimise damage from stomach acids.
  • Take with lots of water to push the FMT as far down the small intestine as possible.
  • Consume as soon as possible to preserve the diversity of microbiota.
  • Capsules can be frozen
  • Using entero-coated capsules or rolling in beeswax will prolong the trip down the gut, ensuring delivery of microbiota lower down
Tips:
  • It’s important to protect the capsules from moisture so that they don’t melt too soon. The double capsule helps prevent leakage.
  • Gelatin capsules are widely available. Entero-coated (gastric acid resistant) capsules can be purchased here and here. These are optional, however can help to protect the microbiota from stomach acid and delay its release until further down the small intestine. Some have made their own entero-coated capsules by dipping standard gelatin capsules in beeswax.
  • You can buy a capsule-maker here and here (mixed reports) however most find it easier to make them by hand.
 
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Sidereal

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I know. I guess I'll have to eat poop.

I wonder if it's due to technical issues or just dumbness that these aren't available. There is no shortage of useless Lactobacillus junk on the market.
Some of it is technical problems. F. prausnitzii for instance has been investigated a lot in IBD but it can't survive any oxygen so can't make a pill for now. The LAB + Bifido stuff is a dairy industry scam. That stuff is so cheap and easy to make so why not cash in. Nevermind that folks like the Hazda have zero bifidos in their guts and are in perfect health.
 

Sidereal

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I don't endorse DIY FMTs unless you are dying of C diff or something. How do you know your donor doesn't have some ghastly microbiome that will give you obesity or autoimmune disease? There was a case report recently of a woman who became obese after an FMT when she got a sample from her overweight mother.
 

Tammy

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There is also a multistrain probiotic called AOR ProBIOTIC 3 that contains Clostridium butyricum along with Streptococcus faecalis and Bacillus mesentericus. Probiotics can be tricky and I'm not sure if the other 2 strains are contraindicated for those of us with ME/CFS. Since so many strains of probiotics can cause negative reactions for those with ME/CFS I believe that single strains are better for experimentation purposes. Perhaps someone with more knowledge, or with experience using this specific blend, can share their opinion on the product
In the probiotic 3 formula.........the Bacillus mesentericus feeds Clostridium butyricum according to an article I read.
 
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Sushi

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I got standard delivery from US Amazon to Ireland. Delivery was ridiculously cheap, like 2 euro. It shipped from Japan and arrived surprisingly fast, less than a week if I recall correctly.
I ordered from US Amazon, but only a day ago. I'll report on the delivery time.

Note: If you use Amazon, please access it through the link at the Phoenix Rising Store--this automatically donates 4 - 7 % to Phoenix Rising with no cost to you. There are other "store links" on that page (Vitacost, etc.). For the Amazon links, just scroll down half a page--you'll be taken to the Amazon Smile page. This is available to Phoenix Rising members because Phoenix Rising is a registered 501(c)(3) non-profit organization.

Sushi
 

Sasha

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I've registered with Smile on US Amazon some time ago (can't remember how I did it) and also support Phoenix Rising when I shop on UK Amazon (which is loads, because I'm mostly housebound).

I know Amazon gets a lot of stick from people but it allows me to donate to ME charities every time I use it, so I do. :)
 

anne_likes_red

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I'm taking 1 tablet each morning (3 days now). The first day I noticed a subtle buzzing sensation in the gut*, and the second day I had some sharp pain in the same area. Glands in my neck are slightly swollen. Last night I was woken by cramping pain lower in the gut. 'Adverse' effects are intermittent....no big drama.
I figure I'll stick with just the 1 tablet per day for a while.
(On the fibre front - I'm just taking small doses of LAG and psyllium, plus RS type 3 from food.)

*Same as I experienced with large doses of raw potato starch, and with the AOR probiotic 3.