B2 I love you!

[cph13]

Thank you, @cph13 , I don't know how to do FB, but I can google Morely Robbins about boron.

Morley Robbins - magnesium advocacy- youtube . I would like your opinion on the whole magnesium.org and Morley when u get to it. I would give you links but I'm not on my puter now. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[snowman]

Is there a known reason why manganese would prevent issues while taking b2?

I haven't seen anything other than hypotheses and anecdotes. I think it was the hair mineral analysis woman early in the thread that proposed the problem was B2 pulling iron from the liver, raising serum of some type of iron or ferritin, and too much iron then causing problems, and that manganese would help keep the iron in check? Something like that for hypothesis #1. I don't recall any links to scientific journals on the subject.

I've read hypothesis #2 somewhere here about it increasing MnSOD (protects mitochondria), but I don't recall any development or references about that or tying it in with avoiding pain.

I have seen articles where too little is not good, yet too much can be permanetnly problematic, so those that do use it should be careful of the recommended limits. I'm just starting to read how it affects thyroid hormones, and this sounds very different from the many unscientific sites that urge its use in hypothyroidism. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2067987/

 

[cph13]

Thank you, @cph13 , I don't know how to do FB, but I can google Morely Robbins about boron.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...spv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=morley robbins magnesium man

 

[Little Bluestem]

I think it was the hair mineral analysis woman early in the thread that proposed the problem was B2 pulling iron from the liver, raising serum of some type of iron or ferritin, and too much iron then causing problems, and that manganese would help keep the iron in check?

If you are referring to Christine (Dog Person), her theory was that a B2 deficiency was causing iron to be stored in the liver instead of utilized.

The manganses is needed by the endoplasmic reticulum, which is where a lot of cell processes take place. In this case, I think it is where the enzyme that contains the B2 is made.

The enzyme then does pull the iron from the liver, but that is the solution not the problem. The B2 dose is to start low so that too much iron is not pulled for the liver too fast.

 

[LynnJ]

Hm. So it's just a theory from people posting here?

I'm so wary of starting B2 again. I don't want it to wreak more havoc on my eyes and joints.

 

[Kathevans]

So it's just a theory from people posting here?

Actually, it's based on the fact that in the Folate cycle, as well as ATP production, B2 is required (among others). I missed your post on its effect on your eyes, but I'm assuming it had to do with dry eyes, which is both a common sign of B2 depletion and a sign of your body beginning to utilize B2 again when you take it--as your body has an internal triage when it comes to using the B2 that you give it after a severe depletion.

People also come to the realization of low B2 levels through testing such as the OAT Test, or Organic Acids Test, which I had over a year ago and which showed B2 to be my most deficient vitamin.

 

[LynnJ]

Actually, it's based on the fact that in the Folate cycle, as well as ATP production, B2 is required (among others). I missed your post on its effect on your eyes, but I'm assuming it had to do with dry eyes, which is both a common sign of B2 depletion and a sign of your body beginning to utilize B2 again when you take it--as your body has an internal triage when it comes to using the B2 that you give it after a severe depletion.

People also come to the realization of low B2 levels through testing such as the OAT Test, or Organic Acids Test, which I had over a year ago and which showed B2 to be my most deficient vitamin.

I understand that B2 may be needed, but my theory comment was specifically in regards to manganese being helpful for those who get bad side effects from B2.

B2 seems to make my knees ache and pop a lot more, and within a few weeks of taking a B-complex for the first time, I developed eye floaters, which I had never even heard about before! I think it had 25-50mg of B2. This was back in late '14/early '15. I recently bought a low-dose (10mg) B2 supplement just to experiment with, and when I took it my knees, which had been doing much better, started hurting enough again that I put my cheap little knee wrap I bought back on. And it seems to make my floaters more noticeable.

I've read numerous sources saying riboflavin can deplete hyaluronic acid, which would explain the joint and vitreous problems.

 

[Kathevans]

@LynnJ You're right, the Manganese is mentioned as helping and though I've read on here that it may have to do with the endoplasmic reticulum in the liver and it's repair, I really don't know. The balance between one thing and another can become a house of cards!

As to hyaluronic acid, I'm not aware of tests that measure it, though I did read that certain Starchy Japanese vegetables have high levels of it, as well as miso!

This is why many try to get what they need from the food they eat, and while I've had success supplementing with high potassium foods, it seems harder to do this with the Bs.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I was told to start with 12.5 mg once/day and gradually work up to 25 mg several/day. Taking too much too fast can have negative knock-on effects.

 

[Violeta]

Thanks, Izzy. I've actually been watching that thread since it started. One of the problems I have with that protocol is I'm still unsure about the TUDCA. I have two bottles of the stuff I'm afraid to take. LOL

So, while I like mario's theory and it makes perfect sense to me, because of that I'm still kind of fishing around seeking other ways to manage oxidative stress in general, plus managing any extra engendered by my SOD mutations. Judging by the stubborn little chronic rash I've had across the bridge of my nose for the last 10 years but has been gone for some few months now, I may be on the right track. Low fat and fasting seems to have put the kibosh on it.

However, if necessary, I will no doubt circle back around to the unfolded protein thing in the future. But I don't think anything is ever going to reverse my deafness except maybe stem cell therapy. I'm a pretty optimistic person when it comes to the idea that we can reverse a lot of the damage to our bodies, but I'm also a realist. I suspect that ship has done sailed. Although I'm very much on board with the idea that I can prevent further loss. Which would be a very great thing, considering the fact that my hearing loss has proven to be progressive even if slowly so.

@whodathunkit I forget if you have tried biotin. This article talks about biotinidase deficiency and hearing loss, and although taking biotin as a supplement may not improve biotinidase deficiency or restore hearing loss, if you are deficient in biotin, taking large enough doses might help with other issues. Just a though.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16107307

 

[Kathevans]

about biotinidase deficiency

Interestingly, having just gotten back the results from a SpectraCell Micronutrient Test, the one B I was borderline low in was Biotin. After doing some reading on the subject last night, it seems there is something in egg whites--raw or boiled (I like my eggs poached for the soft yoke--that blocks or de-activates or uses up biotin. I thought I'd been getting fairly high amounts in the 1/2 Seeking Health B-Minus I'd been taking daily, 1/4 with breakfast and lunch.

I've had a rash over my nose for the past couple of years. It does come and go and I thought it was a folate deficiency sign--which, of course, it may be--but I found a fairly low dose of Biotin (1,000 mcg) on iHerb I may get in my next order...

 

[Gondwanaland]

I've had a rash over my nose for the past couple of years

The 1st sign of low Biotin I get is facial rash. I have been rash-free while eating 2 soft boiled eggs daily. When I stopped the eggs,I got facial rash again after a couple of days (and severe bone/joint pain - the eggs are my methylation source now). My main problem with eating eggs is that the fairly high dose of vit A increases the need for Transferrin. I have 3 +/+ SNPs in the TF gene and my Transferrin is consistently low in blood results throughout my life.

 

[Kathevans]

But, gee, I'm already eating two eggs a day. Am I really absorbing things that badly? Or--as I feel may be the case--are these same symptoms applicable to many different deficiencies?

How do we ever get to the bottom of things?

(and severe bone/joint pain - the eggs are my methylation source now)

Do the eggs relieve these symptoms for you?

I've been going backwards with the supps trying to figure out what's what. But so far things are clear as mud...

 

[Violeta]

But, gee, I'm already eating two eggs a day. Am I really absorbing things that badly? Or--as I feel may be the case--are these same symptoms applicable to many different deficiencies?

How do we ever get to the bottom of things?



Do the eggs relieve these symptoms for you?

I've been going backwards with the supps trying to figure out what's what. But so far things are clear as mud...

Eggs didn't relieve the symptoms for me. And actually, I was having an allergic reaction to eggs but tried them again after about a week of taking the biotin. It doesn't make sense to me, the only thing I can think of is that even though I was eating the eggs scrambled or fried, the avidin in the whites was undoing the benefit of the biotin. I don't know, but it wasn't enough for me.
Oh, wait, the biotin in the eggs would need to be processed by biotinidase. But the biotin in the supplement does not need to be broken down, thus making it able to be used.

 

[Kathevans]

the biotin in the eggs would need to be processed by biotinidase. But the biotin in the supplement does not need to be broken down, thus making it able to be used.

Ooohhhhhhh! I've got to place that order!

 

[Violeta]

Ooohhhhhhh! I've got to place that order!

Did you place the order yet? Maybe you already know this, but at pureformulas there is no minimum for free shipping.

https://www.pureformulas.com/the-AB...tent=_&utm_campaign=vitaminB7_searchpg_072015

 

[Gondwanaland]

Do the eggs relieve these symptoms for you?

It looks like I'm stuck with eating eggs daily for the rest of my life Everything got worse when I tried to stop them. I am afraid of my next lipid count. It got very high one year ago when I added cream to my coffee.
Today I got new supps though - iron and Biotin

 

[Kathevans]

at pureformulas there is no minimum for free shipping.

Good to know! I ended up ordering from Natural Healthy Concepts, who also have free shipping out of a warehouse in Tennessee (I asked!). I felt a little embarrassed for the free shipping given I was only spending $5.19! Oh well.

 

[brenda]

I love duck eggs.

 

[Violeta]

Good to know! I ended up ordering from Natural Healthy Concepts, who also have free shipping out of a warehouse in Tennessee (I asked!). I felt a little embarrassed for the free shipping given I was only spending $5.19! Oh well.

That's a good price, and you didn't have to pay shipping, that really helps.