B2 I love you!

[Johnmac]

Enough for people with a deficiency, though?

He said I was probably deficient (low dairy), & that 40 p day was enough. So I guess so.

I could feel 40mg/day working straight away when I added it in - it potentiated the B12 quite a lot.

 

[Kathevans]

@sflorence This link has valuable and fairly clear information on all the Bs and more:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/riboflavin

But as to whether 40mg is enough, that is most likely an individual matter. For me, it seems not. When I really titrated down on the B Minus complex, which yields only about 10mg/ day of B1, B2 & B6, I found that I could 'feel' when the riboflavin ran out by the reappearance of what I'd thought of as a folate deficiency symptom--and it may actually be just that, but that I need the B2 to circulate the folate.

I'm still experimenting and 'feeling' but @Johnmac is right as to the need for B12, and I've found folate too, to decrease with adequate levels of B2...and no doubt B6. With enough riboflavin, your body can actually utilize these vitamins where it may have been previously hobbled.

The more B2 I take, the lower both my folate and B12 needs are. I've actually stopped the folate, but may need some. It's amazing. If you slow things down enough and get the right things going for your body, you can reach a point where you can feel what's right for you.

That said, I've still got tight trapezius muscles and frequent dull frontal headaches. Will enough B2 ultimately resolve this? Or will I then titrate more folate back in, and possibly B12? What I'm certain of now is that the B2 ensures that I won't be taking as much as I was. I won't be over-driving my system...

I'm sure you can do this, too!

 

[Gondwanaland]

Enough for people with a deficiency, though?

Excess B2 is quickly eliminated by urine, if you take more than that, you are just making bright yellow urine.Be sure to have enough co-factos like Mn, Mg and Fe, vit D levels are also important.

 

[Gondwanaland]

That said, I've still got tight trapezius muscles and frequent dull frontal headaches.

What kind of potassium do you take?

 

[Kathevans]

@Gondwanaland Potassium citrate powder. I seem to tolerate it fairly well, though not in huge doses...keep to about 900mg/day. With this amount Imdon't get any tachycardia, which seems to be my major potassium deficiency symptom.

I'd thought of these as folate symptoms, but maybe I'll get out of bed and go drink some potassium and see if they go away!

 

[Gondwanaland]

I'd thought of these as folate symptoms, but maybe I'll get out of bed and go drink some potassium and see if they go away!

Those trapezius stings are a puzzle to me, and to @picante as well.

EDIT: I mean, they are a clear sign of high BP, but what is causing it?

 

[Kathevans]

@Gondwanaland The problem is, I think of these tight muscles as just the tip of my physiological iceberg. At the same time I can 'feel' my Dupytrens' aching on and off, feel the fascia in my left foot twinging, and the tension in my face tightening.

I think it's a full body request for something, and I'd like to comply. And I also think the B2 may be at the front of the line....

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland The problem is, I think of these tight muscles as just the tip of my physiological iceberg. At the same time I can 'feel' my Dupytrens' aching on and off, feel the fascia in my left foot twinging, and the tension in my face tightening.

I think it's a full body request for something, and I'd like to comply. And I also think the B2 may be at the front of the line....

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/riboflavin
Hypertension
Although the etiology of hypertension is unclear, the methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) gene C677T polymorphismis the main determinant of homocysteine concentrations and has been related to elevated blood pressure (a marker of hypertension) (71) and increased risk of coronary heart disease and vascular accident (72-74). Since this genetic variant leads to decreased MTHFR activity, individuals with the 677TT genotype may benefit from riboflavin supplementation. In an initialrandomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial in 77 healthy subjects who had been pre-screened for MTHFR genotype, riboflavin supplementation (1.6 mg/day for 12 weeks) lowered homocysteine levels in the MTHFR 677TT genotype group but not in the age-matched 677CC and 677CT groups that exhibited normal plasma homocysteine levels at baseline (75). Two subsequent randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials investigated the possibility of riboflavin modulating hypertension in premature cardiovascular disease (CVD) patients (pre-screened for the MTHFR 677C→T polymorphism) (76, 77). Results showed a significant lowering of blood pressure only in the patients with the 677TT genotype supplemented with riboflavin (1.6 mg/day for 16 weeks) compared to placebo, both on initial examination (69) and when the same cohort of high-risk CVD patients was reinvestigated four years after the original trial (70). Another study investigated the effect of riboflavin in 88 hypertensive patients (but without overt CVD) with the MTHFR 677TT genotype, the majority of whom were being treated with antihypertensive therapy. At baseline, 60% of participants had failed to achieve target BP levels (≤140/90 mm Hg), despite taking three or more antihypertensive medications. The reduction in blood pressure following riboflavin supplementation (1.6 mg/day for 16 weeks) in these patients suggested that the excess risk of hypertension linked to this genetic variation could be overcome by optimizing riboflavin status (78).

 

[sflorence]

@sflorence This link has valuable and fairly clear information on all the Bs and more:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/riboflavin

But as to whether 40mg is enough, that is most likely an individual matter. For me, it seems not. When I really titrated down on the B Minus complex, which yields only about 10mg/ day of B1, B2 & B6, I found that I could 'feel' when the riboflavin ran out by the reappearance of what I'd thought of as a folate deficiency symptom--and it may actually be just that, but that I need the B2 to circulate the folate.


I'm sure you can do this, too!

Funny enough, I mistook my B2 deficiency symptoms as a lack of folate, as well.
Maybe this is a missing piece to Freddd's simplified protocol.

I was taking upwards of 10mg/day of folate to help with my depression, but it seems that I plateau around 6mg/day and any more isn't necessary.

I am eager to see how much folate I will need now. I would bet around 4mg/day or less.

 

[mgk]

You don't necessarily need to be deficient in B2 for it to help you. There are a lot of genetic polymorphisms that cause an enzyme to have a decreased cofactor binding affinity, which means that the cofactor will detach from the enzyme more easily. This is believed to be a genetic adaptation to conserve the cofactor for more short-term survival functions. In these cases, maintaining a higher concentration than is normally possible would make the enzyme work better.

For example, here's a list of polymorphisms that are thought to respond to higher concentrations:

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11916749

 

[Kathevans]

I mean, they are a clear sign of high BP, but what is causing it?

Actually I've got fairly low blood pressure. I was in the doctor's office just two weeks ago and it was 115 over 60. It's always been low, sometimes so low the doctor asks if I get dizzy when I stand. that said, I'm heterozygous MTHFR. This is not to say that my long-time B-Complex taking hasn't helped to keep it low, or that my focus on B2 won't help to keep it there!

Thanks. I never knew there was a connection...

 

[Kathevans]

You don't necessarily need to be deficient in B2 for it to help you.

Great chart!

 

[Gondwanaland]

Actually I've got fairly low blood pressure. I was in the doctor's office just two weeks ago and it was 115 over 60. It's always been low, sometimes so low the doctor asks if I get dizzy when I stand. that said, I'm heterozygous MTHFR. This is not to say that my long-time B-Complex taking hasn't helped to keep it low, or that my focus on B2 won't help to keep it there!

Thanks. I never knew there was a connection...

Last year my BP has been consistently low at 90x60. My endo congratulated me on that I fired him

My husband also has low BP, nevetheless we both have been having those upper back stings after centain foods. I hope to pin it down soon. Right now my main suspect is the new iodized salt I bought.

 

[Kathevans]

those upper back stings

Mine is really a tightening of the muscle and it remains that way for long periods of time, osmetimes making that bone at the top of the spine very sore. But iodized salt? The iodine? I use Celtic Grey Sea Salt, but then supplement 3 drops of iodine/day.

If you work it out, I'd love to know if that's really it...

 

[sflorence]

Has anyone experienced any B2 startup symptoms? R5p seems to be giving me some interesting side effects, mostly irritability and depression.

Edit: I think I am experiencing B1 deficiency, actually. There is another thread "no love for b2 here" and two people found their problem was B1 getting depleted from B2.

 

[Violeta]

Has anyone experienced any B2 startup symptoms? R5p seems to be giving me some interesting side effects, mostly irritability and depression.

Edit: I think I am experiencing B1 deficiency, actually. There is another thread "no love for b2 here" and two people found their problem was B1 getting depleted from B2.

I did, what are your symptoms besides irritability and depression? Fatigue, dry eyes?

Do you eat any foods that supply B1?

 

[sflorence]

I did, what are your symptoms besides irritability and depression? Fatigue, dry eyes?

Do you eat any foods that supply B1?

Yes, from the lists I see online I eat plenty of "b1 source foods".

 

[Kathevans]

Has anyone experienced any B2 startup symptoms?

Absolutely. I tried to get on supplemental B2 three times before this last time when it seems to have taken, so to speak. I think it's hard to decipher what's going on until you fiddle with it over time. At least that's my experience. I keep an Excell chart of daily supps and symptoms and then study it when I'm completely flummoxed.

Patterns do seem to develop over time. Unfortunately, for me anyway, this long term experimentation and revision seem to be part of the process. Each round, I have more of the basics, more minerals, say, or more of the cofactors in place. Maybe that helps. Something must because it does change.

My snps, or my sensitive body or the bacterial/viral load I'm supporting all make it a challenge... today I feel a little philosophical. Others I feel desperate and depressed. Occasionally I feel joyful!

 

[Violeta]

Yes, from the lists I see online I eat plenty of "b1 source foods".

It shouldn't be creating a B1 deficiency then, but maybe someone else will know more.

 

[sflorence]

Absolutely. I tried to get on supplemental B2 three times before this last time when it seems to have taken, so to speak. I think it's hard to decipher what's going on until you fiddle with it over time. At least that's my experience. I keep an Excell chart of daily supps and symptoms and then study it when I'm completely flummoxed.

Patterns do seem to develop over time. Unfortunately, for me anyway, this long term experimentation and revision seem to be part of the process. Each round, I have more of the basics, more minerals, say, or more of the cofactors in place. Maybe that helps. Something must because it does change.

My snps, or my sensitive body or the bacterial/viral load I'm supporting all make it a challenge... today I feel a little philosophical. Others I feel desperate and depressed. Occasionally I feel joyful!

Interesting! What were your startup symptoms? And how long did they last?

That last paragraph gave me a good laugh, you sound much like me! Every single day is a roller-coaster for me.

day1: wow I feel great!
day2: ARG somethings wrong, I feel tired
day3: I am so depressed *adjust supplements*
day4: I FEEL AWESOME.
rinse and repeat..

Keep in mind though, my awesome days are like a "healthy" persons crappy days.