Wayne
Senior Member
- Messages
- 4,473
- Location
- Ashland, Oregon
Hey @MonkeyMan -- Great list--thanks!
What has helped you with sleep/insomnia - post links
- Thread starter Mary
- Start date
- Messages
- 11
I'm sorry this is so long, but sleep is a very complicated thing. Losing the ability to do something that seems so natural may point to something very complicated happening inside the body. I am still trying to understand it, I will give you my experience so far.
I've had insomnia for 6 years. At one point it was so bad I felt certain that I was going to die. Thankfully, I am now able to manage it through the following a strict lifestyle and supplement regiment.
Before I list the things I do and why, I first would like to say that I still consider myself to have insomnia, because without these things, I would NEVER sleep. These are things I discovered through trial and error, and if you have insomnia you'll know exactly what I mean! Most breakthroughs happened at about four in the morning, after being awake for two days, with me desperately trying something... ANYTHING... to see if it would work.
Secondly, it is important to understand that the reason you cannot sleep is because something has gone wrong inside of your body.
Contrary to what you might think, sleep is actually a very energetic process and the body needs enough energy to be able to carry out essential processes, such as restoration and repair, while you are in that state. There are certain things that your body NEEDS to be able to sleep, and if it doesn't have them, you will not be able to.
I learnt this fact from bitter experience, as I watched myself go from a young, healthy 30 something year old, to an old, sick, decrepid shadow of my former self within the space of a few years.
The body will only allow us to sleep if it feels safe to do so, therefore if you cannot sleep, it is because the body does not feel SAFE. It is trying to tell you that it NEEDS something!
Before you give me the "Why didn't you try this?" questions (trust me I've heard them all), I tried EVERYTHING the so-called experts advised: meditation, mindfulness, yoga, soothing music, milk, eating in the evening, not eating in the evening, keto diet, every herbal remedy known to man. NOTHING worked. And I'm glad none of it worked, because that was when it dawned on me... that nothing on the OUTSIDE was going to help me sleep, because the problem was coming from the INSIDE. It led me down a furious rabbit hole where I struggled to understand the science of sleep, as much as my brain fog would allow.
I have never tried any prescription medication and have never been tempted to, simply because I understand that it induces a state of sedation, which is not real sleep, and can cause unwanted side effects. Perhaps I would if none of these natural solutions had worked. Luckily, they did.
If you are struggling to sleep, before reaching for medication that can potentially make things worse rather than better, do a body scan. Lie still, close your eyes and ask yourself what other symptoms are you experiencing? What sensations are you feeling?
Is your mind racing?
That is often a symptom of low B1 or b6. Try eating more fermented foods and supplementing with a good quality natural form B complex vitamin and high dose benfotiamine, which is a fat soluble form of B1. I would advise taking the b1 a few hours before bed because it seems to interfere with sleep if taken right before. Take b6 in the form of pyridoxal 5'phosphate. Do not take pyroxidine as it is an artificial form of b6. In fact avoid taking artificial forms of vitamins (such as folic acid) at all as these can actually exacerbate the deficiency that you're trying to treat.
Are you tense/struggling to relax your muscles? Is your heart racing?
This can be a sign of low potassium. The average person needs around 1400 mg per day. It is found in high amounts in leafy green vegetables and root vegetables.
Could you have acidosis?
A symptom of this is tense muscles, restlessness, racing mind, a racing heart, air hunger/ sighing or difficulty breathing, muscle twitching, irritability, increased urination.
Avoid highly acidic foods such as alcohol, pickles, vinegar, lemons, coffee, cheese and fizzy drinks after midday (keep them to the morning). Acidosis can also be brought on by stress.
Drink San Pellegrino or another mineral water that is high in bicarbonate. The body uses bicarbonate to neutralise acid. You may also take a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda in a glass of water and knock that back. If you're symptoms improve within half an hour then you know for sure that it's probably acidosis. Another good remedy is a supplement containing calcium and magnesium.
Take a good sugar free electrolyte supplement, one that contains a good balance of all the electrolytes and at least a thousand milligrams of potassium. The dose will be dependent on your personal tolerance, you may need more or less depending on your personal circumstances. If my rhr is in the 90s, I find that potassium brings it right down, but be careful not to have too much as it can cause diarrhea which can make the problem worse.
Night enuresis aka. Getting up to pee.
Not normal. You should not be getting up in the night to pee. The cause is not fully understood, though it is possibly blood sugar dysregulation and high insulin. Common cause: our old friend stress, but also can be a sign of high a1c. I would get it checked out by your doctor.
Limit refined foods, especially simple sugars, carbohydrates and seed oils.
You might also try high dose benfotiamine which has been shown to help support the body's blood sugar management.
For more information on this particular vitamin, please check out Elliott Overton of EOnutrition on YouTube.
If the cause is due to prostate problems I cannot advise on that, other than that I have heard it is possibly a hormonal imbalance issue.
Period.
I always find that my insomnia gets worse around the time of my menstrual cycle. I don't know why, but my guess is that the culprit is the body's increased demand for nutrients such as sodium, potassium etc. I find I need to drink more water during this time. Magnesium is good for period cramps.
Water.
It is important to keep hydrated, however I would not advise drinking water straight from the tap or filtered water, as this can flush out essential nutrients like sodium and potassium. Personally, I cannot drink this type of water, it makes me feel terrible. The only water I am able to drink is a good mineral water such as San Pellegrino. I'm not being snobby! I've just found that that works for me! If you are able to drink tap water just fine, then please ignore this statement.
Are you too hot?
You could be low in sodium. I often add half a teaspoon of pink Himalayan salt to my electrolyte drink and sip this throughout the day.
Do you have digestive issues?
GERD, gas, indigestion, slow gut motility and hiatal hernia can make it hard to sleep. Antacids and PPI's can make the problem worse.
A chiropractor or osteopath can help with a hiatal hernia. Fermented foods, digestive enzymes, betaine hydrochloride with pepsin, digestive bitters and high dose B1 can all help with digestive issues.
Low levels of electrolytes like potassium and sodium can also cause problems with digestion, as your body requires these to make stomach acid.
Digestive issues is a problem I struggle with. I usually cut off my eating window by about four o'clock and I have found that I sleep better. Eating too close to bedtime can really mess up my sleep. Avoid eating at nighttime altogether, however some people have told me that eating something small before bed actually helps them sleep. If this is you, then by all means do what works for you.
If anyone has any advice on how to further improve gut health, I would love to hear it. As far as I understand, sleep issues, and in fact, most other issues, start with problems in the gut.
Pain.
I can't give any advice on this because I don't suffer from any pain. I have found that the ketogenic diet has kept my levels of inflammation very low and I think this has kept my levels of pain very low. Eating fermented organic dairy products and going on an elimination diet helped to ease my IBS. Vitamin d may also help, otherwise I would advise talking to your local health practitioner for advice on pain management.
Lifestyle changes that improved my sleep:
1. Make sleep a priority.
Understand that unless you get good DEEP sleep, your body cannot heal and repair.
2. AVOID STRESS. Seriously do whatever you can.
Don't read tabloids or newspapers. Get rid of your TV and radio. Avoid social media. Read books instead.
Avoid toxic family members and friends. Your sleep is more important.
Let things go, stay out of other people's business and learn to forgive. I have found Byron Katie to be very helpful for accepting my situation and even learning to love it. You can find her on YouTube, she also has books, free audio guides and a website:
www.byronkatie.com
3. Fixing my circadian rhythm:
Get out of bed at sunrise, open up a window or go outside and look towards the sunrise making sure the light shines in your eyes (don't look directly at the sun though). Do this every day, even when it is cloudy. Make it a habit, you won't regret it.
Get outside as much as possible. Sit in the sun for at least half an hour.
Go to bed at sundown every day.
Avoid bright light during the evening.
Get rid of all the LED lighting in your house and replace with incandescent lighting or red lights.
Make sure your room is completely dark.
Use blackout blinds.
I have found that a weighted blanket does help.
Bright light at night is not natural for our bodies, we are not nocturnal. Blue light confuses our bodies and throws off our body clocks, making our brains think it's daytime when it is nighttime and creating a surge in cortisol which interrupts the production of melatonin, therefore preventing sleep.
Protect your eyes from blue light at night.
Note: this kind of light is also bad for animals, so if you have a floodlight or LED lights in your back garden, please consider the wildlife and your neighbours by turning them off. Sadly my neighbours are not so considerate
Using a red light filter on your devices and television.
Wear BLUE BLOCKING GLASSES during the evening and at night. (If you ignore all the other advice, then please follow this one piece!)
Avoid driving, going to clubs, cinemas and supermarkets at night if you can.
4. There is talk about EMF causing insomnia, although I haven't really looked into this. I do put my phone on airplane mode at night, just in case. I noticed my insomnia started around the same time I got my first smartphone, although this could be coincidence. Some people like to put their phone in a metal box as well but I don't go that far.
5. Avoid acids and caffeine. I tend to cut off consumption of these things before 12pm.
6. Don't have too much salt. Go for a natural variety such as sea salt or pink Himalayan salt that contains a mix of minerals, not just sodium chloride in isolation.
7. Cold therapy, although has been shown to help some cases of mecfs, makes MY insomnia worse. Keep it to the morning. I can't comment on any kind of heat therapy such as sauna, although I did try red light therapy and found that this also made my insomnia worse.
8. Avoid getting too tired.
Sounds completely counter intuitive, as most so-called sleep experts out there advice exercise before bed. However, I found that this makes my insomnia worse. It is almost as if my body is too tired to sleep.
9. Nutrients that are essential to MY sleep, in no particular order:
D3 (from the sun or supplement. Signs of deficiency include depression, clicking joints, hunchback and bone pain, particularly in the shins and lower back.)
K2 (from butter and fermented foods or supplement)
Selenium (from Brazil nuts, seaweed, meat or supplement)
Iodine (from seaweed, although too much iodine can cause insomnia!)
Tryptophan. Is converted to serotonin and then to melatonin by the body. It is found in chicken, turkey, pork and other meats.
Potassium citrate
Calcium aspartate anhydrous
Magnesium glycinate
Zinc (I highly recommend Zincatest to keep a tab on your zinc levels).
Copper (is depleted if zinc is taken on its own. Deficiency manifests as split ends. Cocoa and liver are good sources.)
Colloidal minerals (contains a good balance of all the minerals your body needs.)
B vitamins, particularly B1 and b6. (B1 has been shown to be deficient in people suffering from panic attacks and is being researched for various mental health problems including schizophrenia and dementia).
Pink Himalayan salt
Vitamins e and a. (Get from fatty foods including butter, eggs, animal fat, fatty fish, goose, nuts, seeds and coconut.)
San Pellegrino or other good mineral water such as Evian.
Things that I tried, can't say if they helped or not:
Taurine
Glycine
https://uk.iherb.com/pr/hyland-s-na...blets/29114?rcode=CME5721&utm_medium=appshare
This suppliment helped me
I hope from this list you can clearly see that a nutrient dense, whole foods diet is essential for those suffering from insomnia and that supplementation may be necessary ON TOP of that, not instead of.
These are supplements that I use and that are helping me sleep through the night. They are individual to me, discovered through my own desperation of trying to sleep. I can't really give you any idea of dosage, you're going to have to find that for yourself. Be careful when trying supplements for yourself, listen to your body.
I have found that sufferers of mecfs tend to be very inefficient at using vitamins and minerals. I mean that the body tends to go through them very fast and therefore we need more.
It is important to get the balance of minerals and vitamins JUST RIGHT. Too much of one can knock out another. For example: too much magnesium can knock out potassium, worsening insomnia. It is all about balance, something our bodies seem to struggle with more than healthy people. For further information, Google the mineral wheel, which will give an idea of how minerals interact with one another.
I think I've got everything there, hopefully I haven't forgotten anything. I hope it helps someone.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me, but again, these are things that I have found have worked for ME. Everyone is different. I can't guarantee that they will work for YOU.
Xxx
I've had insomnia for 6 years. At one point it was so bad I felt certain that I was going to die. Thankfully, I am now able to manage it through the following a strict lifestyle and supplement regiment.
Before I list the things I do and why, I first would like to say that I still consider myself to have insomnia, because without these things, I would NEVER sleep. These are things I discovered through trial and error, and if you have insomnia you'll know exactly what I mean! Most breakthroughs happened at about four in the morning, after being awake for two days, with me desperately trying something... ANYTHING... to see if it would work.
Secondly, it is important to understand that the reason you cannot sleep is because something has gone wrong inside of your body.
Contrary to what you might think, sleep is actually a very energetic process and the body needs enough energy to be able to carry out essential processes, such as restoration and repair, while you are in that state. There are certain things that your body NEEDS to be able to sleep, and if it doesn't have them, you will not be able to.
I learnt this fact from bitter experience, as I watched myself go from a young, healthy 30 something year old, to an old, sick, decrepid shadow of my former self within the space of a few years.
The body will only allow us to sleep if it feels safe to do so, therefore if you cannot sleep, it is because the body does not feel SAFE. It is trying to tell you that it NEEDS something!
Before you give me the "Why didn't you try this?" questions (trust me I've heard them all), I tried EVERYTHING the so-called experts advised: meditation, mindfulness, yoga, soothing music, milk, eating in the evening, not eating in the evening, keto diet, every herbal remedy known to man. NOTHING worked. And I'm glad none of it worked, because that was when it dawned on me... that nothing on the OUTSIDE was going to help me sleep, because the problem was coming from the INSIDE. It led me down a furious rabbit hole where I struggled to understand the science of sleep, as much as my brain fog would allow.
I have never tried any prescription medication and have never been tempted to, simply because I understand that it induces a state of sedation, which is not real sleep, and can cause unwanted side effects. Perhaps I would if none of these natural solutions had worked. Luckily, they did.
If you are struggling to sleep, before reaching for medication that can potentially make things worse rather than better, do a body scan. Lie still, close your eyes and ask yourself what other symptoms are you experiencing? What sensations are you feeling?
Is your mind racing?
That is often a symptom of low B1 or b6. Try eating more fermented foods and supplementing with a good quality natural form B complex vitamin and high dose benfotiamine, which is a fat soluble form of B1. I would advise taking the b1 a few hours before bed because it seems to interfere with sleep if taken right before. Take b6 in the form of pyridoxal 5'phosphate. Do not take pyroxidine as it is an artificial form of b6. In fact avoid taking artificial forms of vitamins (such as folic acid) at all as these can actually exacerbate the deficiency that you're trying to treat.
Are you tense/struggling to relax your muscles? Is your heart racing?
This can be a sign of low potassium. The average person needs around 1400 mg per day. It is found in high amounts in leafy green vegetables and root vegetables.
Could you have acidosis?
A symptom of this is tense muscles, restlessness, racing mind, a racing heart, air hunger/ sighing or difficulty breathing, muscle twitching, irritability, increased urination.
Avoid highly acidic foods such as alcohol, pickles, vinegar, lemons, coffee, cheese and fizzy drinks after midday (keep them to the morning). Acidosis can also be brought on by stress.
Drink San Pellegrino or another mineral water that is high in bicarbonate. The body uses bicarbonate to neutralise acid. You may also take a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda in a glass of water and knock that back. If you're symptoms improve within half an hour then you know for sure that it's probably acidosis. Another good remedy is a supplement containing calcium and magnesium.
Take a good sugar free electrolyte supplement, one that contains a good balance of all the electrolytes and at least a thousand milligrams of potassium. The dose will be dependent on your personal tolerance, you may need more or less depending on your personal circumstances. If my rhr is in the 90s, I find that potassium brings it right down, but be careful not to have too much as it can cause diarrhea which can make the problem worse.
Night enuresis aka. Getting up to pee.
Not normal. You should not be getting up in the night to pee. The cause is not fully understood, though it is possibly blood sugar dysregulation and high insulin. Common cause: our old friend stress, but also can be a sign of high a1c. I would get it checked out by your doctor.
Limit refined foods, especially simple sugars, carbohydrates and seed oils.
You might also try high dose benfotiamine which has been shown to help support the body's blood sugar management.
For more information on this particular vitamin, please check out Elliott Overton of EOnutrition on YouTube.
If the cause is due to prostate problems I cannot advise on that, other than that I have heard it is possibly a hormonal imbalance issue.
Period.
I always find that my insomnia gets worse around the time of my menstrual cycle. I don't know why, but my guess is that the culprit is the body's increased demand for nutrients such as sodium, potassium etc. I find I need to drink more water during this time. Magnesium is good for period cramps.
Water.
It is important to keep hydrated, however I would not advise drinking water straight from the tap or filtered water, as this can flush out essential nutrients like sodium and potassium. Personally, I cannot drink this type of water, it makes me feel terrible. The only water I am able to drink is a good mineral water such as San Pellegrino. I'm not being snobby! I've just found that that works for me! If you are able to drink tap water just fine, then please ignore this statement.
Are you too hot?
You could be low in sodium. I often add half a teaspoon of pink Himalayan salt to my electrolyte drink and sip this throughout the day.
Do you have digestive issues?
GERD, gas, indigestion, slow gut motility and hiatal hernia can make it hard to sleep. Antacids and PPI's can make the problem worse.
A chiropractor or osteopath can help with a hiatal hernia. Fermented foods, digestive enzymes, betaine hydrochloride with pepsin, digestive bitters and high dose B1 can all help with digestive issues.
Low levels of electrolytes like potassium and sodium can also cause problems with digestion, as your body requires these to make stomach acid.
Digestive issues is a problem I struggle with. I usually cut off my eating window by about four o'clock and I have found that I sleep better. Eating too close to bedtime can really mess up my sleep. Avoid eating at nighttime altogether, however some people have told me that eating something small before bed actually helps them sleep. If this is you, then by all means do what works for you.
If anyone has any advice on how to further improve gut health, I would love to hear it. As far as I understand, sleep issues, and in fact, most other issues, start with problems in the gut.
Pain.
I can't give any advice on this because I don't suffer from any pain. I have found that the ketogenic diet has kept my levels of inflammation very low and I think this has kept my levels of pain very low. Eating fermented organic dairy products and going on an elimination diet helped to ease my IBS. Vitamin d may also help, otherwise I would advise talking to your local health practitioner for advice on pain management.
Lifestyle changes that improved my sleep:
1. Make sleep a priority.
Understand that unless you get good DEEP sleep, your body cannot heal and repair.
2. AVOID STRESS. Seriously do whatever you can.
Don't read tabloids or newspapers. Get rid of your TV and radio. Avoid social media. Read books instead.
Avoid toxic family members and friends. Your sleep is more important.
Let things go, stay out of other people's business and learn to forgive. I have found Byron Katie to be very helpful for accepting my situation and even learning to love it. You can find her on YouTube, she also has books, free audio guides and a website:
www.byronkatie.com
3. Fixing my circadian rhythm:
Get out of bed at sunrise, open up a window or go outside and look towards the sunrise making sure the light shines in your eyes (don't look directly at the sun though). Do this every day, even when it is cloudy. Make it a habit, you won't regret it.
Get outside as much as possible. Sit in the sun for at least half an hour.
Go to bed at sundown every day.
Avoid bright light during the evening.
Get rid of all the LED lighting in your house and replace with incandescent lighting or red lights.
Make sure your room is completely dark.
Use blackout blinds.
I have found that a weighted blanket does help.
Bright light at night is not natural for our bodies, we are not nocturnal. Blue light confuses our bodies and throws off our body clocks, making our brains think it's daytime when it is nighttime and creating a surge in cortisol which interrupts the production of melatonin, therefore preventing sleep.
Protect your eyes from blue light at night.
Note: this kind of light is also bad for animals, so if you have a floodlight or LED lights in your back garden, please consider the wildlife and your neighbours by turning them off. Sadly my neighbours are not so considerate
Using a red light filter on your devices and television.
Wear BLUE BLOCKING GLASSES during the evening and at night. (If you ignore all the other advice, then please follow this one piece!)
Avoid driving, going to clubs, cinemas and supermarkets at night if you can.
4. There is talk about EMF causing insomnia, although I haven't really looked into this. I do put my phone on airplane mode at night, just in case. I noticed my insomnia started around the same time I got my first smartphone, although this could be coincidence. Some people like to put their phone in a metal box as well but I don't go that far.
5. Avoid acids and caffeine. I tend to cut off consumption of these things before 12pm.
6. Don't have too much salt. Go for a natural variety such as sea salt or pink Himalayan salt that contains a mix of minerals, not just sodium chloride in isolation.
7. Cold therapy, although has been shown to help some cases of mecfs, makes MY insomnia worse. Keep it to the morning. I can't comment on any kind of heat therapy such as sauna, although I did try red light therapy and found that this also made my insomnia worse.
8. Avoid getting too tired.
Sounds completely counter intuitive, as most so-called sleep experts out there advice exercise before bed. However, I found that this makes my insomnia worse. It is almost as if my body is too tired to sleep.
9. Nutrients that are essential to MY sleep, in no particular order:
D3 (from the sun or supplement. Signs of deficiency include depression, clicking joints, hunchback and bone pain, particularly in the shins and lower back.)
K2 (from butter and fermented foods or supplement)
Selenium (from Brazil nuts, seaweed, meat or supplement)
Iodine (from seaweed, although too much iodine can cause insomnia!)
Tryptophan. Is converted to serotonin and then to melatonin by the body. It is found in chicken, turkey, pork and other meats.
Potassium citrate
Calcium aspartate anhydrous
Magnesium glycinate
Zinc (I highly recommend Zincatest to keep a tab on your zinc levels).
Copper (is depleted if zinc is taken on its own. Deficiency manifests as split ends. Cocoa and liver are good sources.)
Colloidal minerals (contains a good balance of all the minerals your body needs.)
B vitamins, particularly B1 and b6. (B1 has been shown to be deficient in people suffering from panic attacks and is being researched for various mental health problems including schizophrenia and dementia).
Pink Himalayan salt
Vitamins e and a. (Get from fatty foods including butter, eggs, animal fat, fatty fish, goose, nuts, seeds and coconut.)
San Pellegrino or other good mineral water such as Evian.
Things that I tried, can't say if they helped or not:
Taurine
Glycine
https://uk.iherb.com/pr/hyland-s-na...blets/29114?rcode=CME5721&utm_medium=appshare
This suppliment helped me
I hope from this list you can clearly see that a nutrient dense, whole foods diet is essential for those suffering from insomnia and that supplementation may be necessary ON TOP of that, not instead of.
These are supplements that I use and that are helping me sleep through the night. They are individual to me, discovered through my own desperation of trying to sleep. I can't really give you any idea of dosage, you're going to have to find that for yourself. Be careful when trying supplements for yourself, listen to your body.
I have found that sufferers of mecfs tend to be very inefficient at using vitamins and minerals. I mean that the body tends to go through them very fast and therefore we need more.
It is important to get the balance of minerals and vitamins JUST RIGHT. Too much of one can knock out another. For example: too much magnesium can knock out potassium, worsening insomnia. It is all about balance, something our bodies seem to struggle with more than healthy people. For further information, Google the mineral wheel, which will give an idea of how minerals interact with one another.
I think I've got everything there, hopefully I haven't forgotten anything. I hope it helps someone.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me, but again, these are things that I have found have worked for ME. Everyone is different. I can't guarantee that they will work for YOU.
Xxx
Last edited:
Sadly, it seems to come down to this: We're all different and only time will tell us exactly what helps the most.
I'll have 3 nights of fairly decent sleep and then 4-5 fighting a battle. I no longer fight.....my body does what it wants and I know relief will come at some point.
You have been give some ideas, I hope something will help you. Yours, Lenora
I'll have 3 nights of fairly decent sleep and then 4-5 fighting a battle. I no longer fight.....my body does what it wants and I know relief will come at some point.
You have been give some ideas, I hope something will help you. Yours, Lenora
Wayne
Senior Member
- Messages
- 4,473
- Location
- Ashland, Oregon
Just ran across the "testimonial" below on another thread on bentonite clay: I also read recently that stretching the psoas muscle before retiring can make a huge difference in quality of sleep for some people. Here's a link to a thread on the psoas muscle... -- [Fibromyalgia Misdiagnosis -- ME/CFS Symptoms Traced to Tight Psoas Muscle]
Wayne
Senior Member
- Messages
- 4,473
- Location
- Ashland, Oregon
Just ran across this interesting testimonial on the Ray Peat forum:
"I've had insomnia for years. It has been debilitating.
Recently found a way to induce sleep using what can be termed as heat therapy.
I have tested it twice now and am amazed at the effectiveness.
An infrared sauna is turned on at only half power so it isn't uncomfortably hot. And that is all.
Used it for half an hour or more before bed. While in there, I start switching off like a narcoleptic. Afterward sleep comes easily.
I'm in there with my clothes on so it is the heat not the infrared.
A tent with a space heater or perhaps even warming topical cream could be used instead.
It is odd that a warm bath doesn't have such a strong effect on me like this does."
Long Haul Mono
Senior Member
- Messages
- 122
I used this many many years ago, which had some degree of success in closing the numerous gaps in my sleep. Unfortunately the ME symptoms have gotten worse and it's no longer something I'd consider, but may be of interest to others.
Thanks, @Wayne. I do sleep better in the winter than the summer and I put it down to my electric blanket.
Summer's just difficult. We have a fan directly over our bed and set the air conditioning for what seems a decent range. Still, it gets hot and cold and the cold makes my arms and hands....a lot.
So there could be something to this advice. I hope it helps someone else. (Also, I have bad sinus and it's always worse at bedtime.) And it will get really bad in the autumn weather. Smells good, though. Yours, Lenora
Summer's just difficult. We have a fan directly over our bed and set the air conditioning for what seems a decent range. Still, it gets hot and cold and the cold makes my arms and hands....a lot.
So there could be something to this advice. I hope it helps someone else. (Also, I have bad sinus and it's always worse at bedtime.) And it will get really bad in the autumn weather. Smells good, though. Yours, Lenora
perchance dreamer
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,717
My sinuses always bothered me the most at night until I started sleeping with my head elevated. It makes it easier to breathe. But I seem to remember somewhere that you said you have an adjustable bed, so you might already be sleeping elevated.
I have an adjustable split king bed with 2 separate twin mattresses that fit in a king bed frame. Each mattress has separate controls. It's fantastic for sleeping elevated. Before we made that investment, I slept elevated by using a sleep wedge.
Now when we travel it feels really weird to sleep flat. When I spent a month living in New York, I took my wedge with me, as awkward as it was carrying it in the airport. It definitely helped with social distancing!
datadragon
Senior Member
- Messages
- 423
- Location
- USA
Did you all see this? Butyrate was found to be a bacterial-derived sleep-promoting signal while L reuteri helped a doctor to sleep through the night. L. reuteri positively correlated with the expression of gamma-Aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptor subunits in the brain. Both are lowered via Shank3 deficiency as a downstream effect of inflammation/infection.
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-on-right-side-may-be-best.89827/post-2442473
Sleep problems in patients with autism spectrum disorder may be linked to a mutation in the gene SHANK3 that in turn also regulates the genes of the body's 24-hour day and night cycle. Their study showed that people who were missing the SHANK3 gene and mice that lacked part of the gene had difficulty falling asleep even when sleepy. Shank3 is also an important modulator of sleep and clock gene expression. It turns out that both zinc deficiency or inflammation (NLRP3 over activation) will also cause lower Shank3 levels. https://elifesciences.org/articles/42819
Interestingly, the protein encoded by the SHANK3 gene is regulated by zinc. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5974951/
A significant decrease was observed in melatonin levels of the zinc-deficient group compared to the control and zinc-supplemented group (P<0.01). The results of this study suggest that zinc deficiency decreases the melatonin levels and zinc supplementation may increase the plasma melatonin levels in rats https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14708876/
Vitamin A is involved in Zinc Metabolism and vice versa, a deficiency of one will affect the other. We review the role of vitamin A and retinoic acid (RA-metabolites of vitamin A) as mediators of rhythm in the brain. In the suprachiasmatic nucleus and hippocampus they control expression of circadian clock genes while in the cortex retinoic acid is required for delta oscillations of sleep. Retinoic acid is also central to a second rhythm that keeps pace with the seasons, regulating function in the hypothalamus and pineal gland https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4283048/
vitamin A deficiency causes a reduction in melatonin levels The components required for RA signalling are present in the pineal gland and suggest that RA has a role in the regulation of melatonin synthesis. https://abdn.pure.elsevier.com/en/p...le-of-vitamin-a-in-melatonin-production-in-th
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-on-right-side-may-be-best.89827/post-2442473
Sleep problems in patients with autism spectrum disorder may be linked to a mutation in the gene SHANK3 that in turn also regulates the genes of the body's 24-hour day and night cycle. Their study showed that people who were missing the SHANK3 gene and mice that lacked part of the gene had difficulty falling asleep even when sleepy. Shank3 is also an important modulator of sleep and clock gene expression. It turns out that both zinc deficiency or inflammation (NLRP3 over activation) will also cause lower Shank3 levels. https://elifesciences.org/articles/42819
Interestingly, the protein encoded by the SHANK3 gene is regulated by zinc. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5974951/
A significant decrease was observed in melatonin levels of the zinc-deficient group compared to the control and zinc-supplemented group (P<0.01). The results of this study suggest that zinc deficiency decreases the melatonin levels and zinc supplementation may increase the plasma melatonin levels in rats https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14708876/
Vitamin A is involved in Zinc Metabolism and vice versa, a deficiency of one will affect the other. We review the role of vitamin A and retinoic acid (RA-metabolites of vitamin A) as mediators of rhythm in the brain. In the suprachiasmatic nucleus and hippocampus they control expression of circadian clock genes while in the cortex retinoic acid is required for delta oscillations of sleep. Retinoic acid is also central to a second rhythm that keeps pace with the seasons, regulating function in the hypothalamus and pineal gland https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4283048/
vitamin A deficiency causes a reduction in melatonin levels The components required for RA signalling are present in the pineal gland and suggest that RA has a role in the regulation of melatonin synthesis. https://abdn.pure.elsevier.com/en/p...le-of-vitamin-a-in-melatonin-production-in-th
Last edited:
maddietod
Senior Member
- Messages
- 2,902
My insomnia suddenly progressed from 3 wakings every night to 5 or more in 9 hours. I've been wrestling with it for 6 months trying to get back to 'just' 3 wakings. Here are the layers that are working:
10 minute (max) stroll am and pm within the hours after sunrise and before sunset (circadian rhythm).
Screen time only in the morning (brain activation, circadian rhythm).
One 60 watt bulb in the evening, red light in my bedroom (circadian rhythm). If I use the bathroom at night, I don't turn on any lights.
I stop eating at 3pm, stop drinking at 5 (GERD, night peeing).
I sleep on a full-bed sloper (GERD).
Relaxing essential oil (NOT fragrance), diluted, around nostrils at bedtime.
Mack's wax earplugs because the neighbor's a/c compressor is outside my window.
Blackout/"soundproofing" curtain on the one window.
Sleep studies have diagnosed mild sleep apnea, but CPAP was an immediate fail for me. The GERD interventions likely also help with positional apnea issues.
10 minute (max) stroll am and pm within the hours after sunrise and before sunset (circadian rhythm).
Screen time only in the morning (brain activation, circadian rhythm).
One 60 watt bulb in the evening, red light in my bedroom (circadian rhythm). If I use the bathroom at night, I don't turn on any lights.
I stop eating at 3pm, stop drinking at 5 (GERD, night peeing).
I sleep on a full-bed sloper (GERD).
Relaxing essential oil (NOT fragrance), diluted, around nostrils at bedtime.
Mack's wax earplugs because the neighbor's a/c compressor is outside my window.
Blackout/"soundproofing" curtain on the one window.
Sleep studies have diagnosed mild sleep apnea, but CPAP was an immediate fail for me. The GERD interventions likely also help with positional apnea issues.
Are the wakings consistently every 90 minutes? That's how mine are, at least until near morning, when the sleep periods shorten. If that's the case, it's the normal human 90-minute cycle where we normally end with some aspects of wakening, but not fully wakening. For me, the "not fully wakening" bit is broken.
maddietod
Senior Member
- Messages
- 2,902
Usually, yes, the wakings feel tied to sleep cycles. With more wakings, the first one comes early and the last one happens closer to waking up for the day.
I think the earplugs lower the # of full wakings during the night.
I usually go right back to sleep, but sometimes I'm awake for an hour or more around 2 or 3. What's your pattern?
My pattern is bed ~8-9PM, toss&turn for an hour or two, then sleep 90 minutes, wake and usually fall asleep again after a few minutes. The last few sleep cycles might be 60 minutes, then 30 minutes, then I wake and know sleep won't come again.
If I take some CLAs (tsp of safflower or EPO or beef fat), I'll stay asleep through the first cycle or two, maybe skip the next waking too, then it's back to the usual routine. The first few times I ate extra beef or lamb fat, I managed to sleep for 5 or more hours without waking. I think it wouldn't be that effective now, and it's not worth dealing with that much extra fat (calories) in my diet.
Last night I did have a tsp of safflower and maybe 1/2 tsp of beef fat, and skipped two wakings.
If I take some CLAs (tsp of safflower or EPO or beef fat), I'll stay asleep through the first cycle or two, maybe skip the next waking too, then it's back to the usual routine. The first few times I ate extra beef or lamb fat, I managed to sleep for 5 or more hours without waking. I think it wouldn't be that effective now, and it's not worth dealing with that much extra fat (calories) in my diet.
Last night I did have a tsp of safflower and maybe 1/2 tsp of beef fat, and skipped two wakings.
Yesterday morning I tested my fibre intolerance with 2 tsp of oats. I felt lousy late afternoon, and my sleep pattern changed: instead of waking after 90 minutes, I woke every ~60 minutes for the first two wakings. Sleep does appear to be affected by fatty acids, including the SCFAs produced in our digestive tract. Instead of experimenting with herbal infusions for sleep, maybe different fatty foods might be more productive.
Hello @perchance dreamer. My bed is exactly like yours. A king with twin adjustable mattresses.
So, yes, I can raise or lower my head at night b/c of sinus, but I prefer to sleep flat. However, if raising the bed a little means a better (or any) sleep, then I'll readily do that. I have a lot of vertebrae problems, so they also have to be a consideration. (Isn't everything?) You do not want to fracture your pelvis either, so do what you can to avoid it.
Ideas about what to take after fosamax for probably 30 yrs., not wanting to go on 6 mo. prolia injections have me rather stumped. I read and read, listen to youtube and I'm more confused than ever. The problem with being on fosamax, prolia or anything like them is you're far more likely to break your femur....so really, one is trading one problem for another. I would like to return to vitamins only....and know that other things make up bone. I have my own "mix" at present.
Many of us have had osteoporosis from a very young age. I've broken many bones and lost 3" in height while on fosamax.....so perhaps that's working in the opposite direction. Anyway, I'll take responsibility for not going on prolia (by the way, one of the reasons is that I've known women who haven't tolerated being given a large infusion of it at once). And we wonder why our doctors don't know what to do???
Men, after 70 your chance of osteoporosis are as high as a woman's. FYI only. Yours, Lenora
So, yes, I can raise or lower my head at night b/c of sinus, but I prefer to sleep flat. However, if raising the bed a little means a better (or any) sleep, then I'll readily do that. I have a lot of vertebrae problems, so they also have to be a consideration. (Isn't everything?) You do not want to fracture your pelvis either, so do what you can to avoid it.
Ideas about what to take after fosamax for probably 30 yrs., not wanting to go on 6 mo. prolia injections have me rather stumped. I read and read, listen to youtube and I'm more confused than ever. The problem with being on fosamax, prolia or anything like them is you're far more likely to break your femur....so really, one is trading one problem for another. I would like to return to vitamins only....and know that other things make up bone. I have my own "mix" at present.
Many of us have had osteoporosis from a very young age. I've broken many bones and lost 3" in height while on fosamax.....so perhaps that's working in the opposite direction. Anyway, I'll take responsibility for not going on prolia (by the way, one of the reasons is that I've known women who haven't tolerated being given a large infusion of it at once). And we wonder why our doctors don't know what to do???
Men, after 70 your chance of osteoporosis are as high as a woman's. FYI only. Yours, Lenora
Long Haul Mono
Senior Member
- Messages
- 122
Likewise.
I have found no way of escaping the need to use CPAP, even though a number of "sleep specialists" claim my sleep apnea is so mild I could probably do without it. There is a notable difference in energy over the days/weeks if I don't use it.
Whenever I didn't use CPAP I'd have to use stick-on nasal strips to dilate the nasal passages, or use one of those insert devices, otherwise my nose would fully congest, but only when I was lying in bed.
Please, could you give me the list of food we need to avoid with Mcas ? I would be grateful to you.
I wish you energy and hope.
Sarah
OK, @Zoe Louise (I also have a daughter named Zoe). I re-read what you wrote and went ahead and ordered the glasses. For those who didn't read the link, they have orange lenses which block blue light.
I have high hopes for these, so hope it happens. At least they can be returned. I'm so weary from not sleeping....nothing has changed, but my sleep pattern is worse than ever. Now, though, I'm a blank slate when it comes to certain things & I'm putting it down to sleep deprivation.
I'm also sick of headaches, just sick of them....so I'll let everyone know if the glasses work. Yours, Lenora
I have high hopes for these, so hope it happens. At least they can be returned. I'm so weary from not sleeping....nothing has changed, but my sleep pattern is worse than ever. Now, though, I'm a blank slate when it comes to certain things & I'm putting it down to sleep deprivation.
I'm also sick of headaches, just sick of them....so I'll let everyone know if the glasses work. Yours, Lenora
wabi-sabi
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,664
- Location
- small town midwest
There's an MCAS reddit where they talk about this a lot. It seems to be pretty individual.
You also might try Dr. Afrin's book if you haven't seen it already.
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2016/05/15/never-beat-against-occam-mast_cell_activation_afrin/