- Messages
- 31
The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?
- Thread starter Ripley
- Start date
whodathunkit
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,160
@piccirilli: just don't let the dust on top of that tissue box get too thick. Dust is very bad for sinuses. 
Seriously, thanks for the tip. What all are you taking? I've also been taking enzymes for biofilms for almost two months, but [probably stupidly] not much else to take care of anything released as a result of damaging the biofilms. I"m waiting on some Sanum to be delivered but frankly haven't had much luck in the past with "traditional" herbs/supplements for candida and viruses, so haven't really pursued them this go-round. I would be interested to know what you're taking that's been effective.
@jepps, great, now I have to worry about histamine. Seriously, the thought had crossed my mind so I will look into it.
Seriously, thanks for the tip. What all are you taking? I've also been taking enzymes for biofilms for almost two months, but [probably stupidly] not much else to take care of anything released as a result of damaging the biofilms. I"m waiting on some Sanum to be delivered but frankly haven't had much luck in the past with "traditional" herbs/supplements for candida and viruses, so haven't really pursued them this go-round. I would be interested to know what you're taking that's been effective.
@jepps, great, now I have to worry about histamine.
Seriously, the thought had crossed my mind so I will look into it.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 31
For biofilm enzymes, I take 80,000 SPU Serrapeptase, 1,000mg Bomelain, and 1 cap Interfase Plus (when tolerable) on an empty stomach. I take this each morning upon waking up.
For herbal anti-fungal/mold, I take a serious dose of the following typically an hour after the enzymes: Pure (meaning undiluted form) Grapeseed Extract, Pure Olive Leaf Oil, Pau D'Arco, and Berberine. I also take Pure Oregano Oil, BOD, Caprylic Acid, and SF722. I will fill a 00 empty capsule for each liquid, typically 25-30 drops each. I use a capping machine to hold the empty half cap while filling, as it tends to get messy trying to fill them by hand. Typically I'll choose the first 4 aforementioned herbals (one capsule each), and rotate the other 4 a week later. The Caprylic and SF722 are diluted, so I take multiple caps of these, YMMV.
I am getting fantastic sinus relief from this treatment. I know these large doses may not sound like a good idea, some of them are not even recommended for ingestion. Yet every indication is giving me a thumbs up, which I continually monitor. In this case, my body feedback trumps logical thinking. I only say proceed with caution, starting with smaller doses before increasing. Particularly with the Oregano.
Is it the cure all? Unfortunately not. It's like I just peeled first layer of the onion, fixing my horrible sinus issue but exposing a greater problem underneath.
When my GI is bad with severe bloating, gas, cognitive dysfunction, extreme muscle tension, depression and severe fatigue, nothing I've tried so far seems to help. I have learned to 'ride out' the bad part of the cycle. Its as if the bacteria in my gut shifts weekly without cause. If it's true we normally carry 3-4 lbs of bacteria, it's as if I'm carrying another lb or two of bad stuff when I'm symptomatic. Then again for unknown reasons, my gut condition improves. Incidentally, my body weight increases slightly by a few lbs during my bad cycles. Water retention is unlikely. If anything I get more dehydrated and have to force myself to drink enough. Perhaps my metabolism explains the weight shift, but it should be going down, not up when I drink/eat less. I know this all sounds crazy, but that is how I feel. My diet is typically really good, using PHD. And exercise when I can. Likewise, I have been doing RS + Starches + Probiotics, which also do not seem to help much, nor do I adversely react to them, at least in the short run. I will continue the RS therapy because of some reported improvements here. So for now I'll continue the above mentioned therapy's until I come up with a better plan for my GI.
For herbal anti-fungal/mold, I take a serious dose of the following typically an hour after the enzymes: Pure (meaning undiluted form) Grapeseed Extract, Pure Olive Leaf Oil, Pau D'Arco, and Berberine. I also take Pure Oregano Oil, BOD, Caprylic Acid, and SF722. I will fill a 00 empty capsule for each liquid, typically 25-30 drops each. I use a capping machine to hold the empty half cap while filling, as it tends to get messy trying to fill them by hand. Typically I'll choose the first 4 aforementioned herbals (one capsule each), and rotate the other 4 a week later. The Caprylic and SF722 are diluted, so I take multiple caps of these, YMMV.
I am getting fantastic sinus relief from this treatment. I know these large doses may not sound like a good idea, some of them are not even recommended for ingestion. Yet every indication is giving me a thumbs up, which I continually monitor. In this case, my body feedback trumps logical thinking. I only say proceed with caution, starting with smaller doses before increasing. Particularly with the Oregano.
Is it the cure all? Unfortunately not. It's like I just peeled first layer of the onion, fixing my horrible sinus issue but exposing a greater problem underneath.
When my GI is bad with severe bloating, gas, cognitive dysfunction, extreme muscle tension, depression and severe fatigue, nothing I've tried so far seems to help. I have learned to 'ride out' the bad part of the cycle. Its as if the bacteria in my gut shifts weekly without cause. If it's true we normally carry 3-4 lbs of bacteria, it's as if I'm carrying another lb or two of bad stuff when I'm symptomatic. Then again for unknown reasons, my gut condition improves. Incidentally, my body weight increases slightly by a few lbs during my bad cycles. Water retention is unlikely. If anything I get more dehydrated and have to force myself to drink enough. Perhaps my metabolism explains the weight shift, but it should be going down, not up when I drink/eat less. I know this all sounds crazy, but that is how I feel. My diet is typically really good, using PHD. And exercise when I can. Likewise, I have been doing RS + Starches + Probiotics, which also do not seem to help much, nor do I adversely react to them, at least in the short run. I will continue the RS therapy because of some reported improvements here. So for now I'll continue the above mentioned therapy's until I come up with a better plan for my GI.
@piccirilli, those are some impressive achievements. Hope you continue to improve. Have you considered switching to some of the other prebiotics people have been trying here instead of RS?
- Messages
- 31
Yes, I'm also taking plantain flour, Inulin, AG, and just ordered some other fibers. I'm definitely going the long route on this RS + fibers + pro-biotics. If for nothing else to provide support for various pro-biotics I'm taking now and near future.
Hi @piccirilli ;
I've read an estimate that bacteria comprise about 60-70 % of our stool.
Gut microbes love resistant starch, fermentable fibers, sugars, etc.
I'm guessing that there could be too many gut microbes, that over-populate when fed these prebiotics.
I've read an estimate that bacteria comprise about 60-70 % of our stool.
Gut microbes love resistant starch, fermentable fibers, sugars, etc.
I'm guessing that there could be too many gut microbes, that over-populate when fed these prebiotics.
- Messages
- 31
I just started taking the RS & Fibers a month ago. My condition existed way before there was even talk about RS, so it's certainly not the cause. I took rx antibiotics for decades to combat constant sinus infections, until the point they did absolutely nothing for infection. Today, there is more general awareness of what damage antibiotics can do. In my case it's too late for that, as the damage has already taken it's toll. As Gestalt and many others put it, this is more likely the cause of my GI imbalance and systemic fungal/mold issue.
Very interesting post from Gemma: maybe the wrong sugar was one reason, that fungi mutated. In giving fungi the right sugar (honey and other prebiotics), maybe fungi will mutate with time back.
http://vegetablepharm.blogspot.co.a...howComment=1427654154973#c7839302841459758931
Another tip of gemma: autourine therapy https://www.youtube.com/watcht=132&v=IEPrB6x02CI
Dr Nakao was the first Doctor to stand up and voice his clinical studies of the mechanics of urine therapy, devoting his time to the understanding of how it works. Nobel prize winning for his efforts in helping advocate the power of this therapy.
But for immunocompromised guts this would be an approach, from which I assume, it needs very strong support of the gut. RS & prebiotics possibly should be well established.
Discussion about autotherapy: http://freetheanimal.com/2015/02/lick-their-balls.html
http://vegetablepharm.blogspot.co.a...howComment=1427654154973#c7839302841459758931
Another tip of gemma: autourine therapy https://www.youtube.com/watcht=132&v=IEPrB6x02CI
Dr Nakao was the first Doctor to stand up and voice his clinical studies of the mechanics of urine therapy, devoting his time to the understanding of how it works. Nobel prize winning for his efforts in helping advocate the power of this therapy.
But for immunocompromised guts this would be an approach, from which I assume, it needs very strong support of the gut. RS & prebiotics possibly should be well established.
Discussion about autotherapy: http://freetheanimal.com/2015/02/lick-their-balls.html
Last edited:
New interesting blog from John Brisson and kindle e-book about the gut:
http://fixyourgut.com/
http://fixyourgut.com/
whodathunkit
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,160
@piccirilli: thanks for the detailed info!
Also, probably you know this, but a caution: be careful with berberine. It can have an adverse effect on your liver. I was taking it a while back to see if it would help with blood sugar. I accidentally started off taking twice the dose recommended (2 caps 3x/day instead of recommended 1 cap 3x/day). First it killed my appetite (was very happy about that until...) but then after a couple weeks I got nausea and diarrhea. Did a little digging around and found it can be liver toxic in the wrong doses. Pulse dosing seems to be better than taking it steadily for a protracted period of time.
Just hazarding a guess...cortisol increase from physiologic stress could be a culprit here...?
Also, probably you know this, but a caution: be careful with berberine. It can have an adverse effect on your liver. I was taking it a while back to see if it would help with blood sugar. I accidentally started off taking twice the dose recommended (2 caps 3x/day instead of recommended 1 cap 3x/day). First it killed my appetite (was very happy about that until...) but then after a couple weeks I got nausea and diarrhea. Did a little digging around and found it can be liver toxic in the wrong doses. Pulse dosing seems to be better than taking it steadily for a protracted period of time.
ahmo
Senior Member
- Messages
- 4,805
- Location
- Northcoast NSW, Australia
Absolutely. I alternated berberine, uva ursi, SF722 (undecenoic acid), olive leaf . 4 days each. I did 3 rounds, also including grapefruit seed extract, oregano oil, tea tree, and lemongrass/clove. I used a combo of the first group + 2nd group, rotating the whole thing. Seems to have worked a charm. Also, Enzymes to break up the biofilm. Also, I needed daily coffee enemas throughout to support my liver. Finally that's finished! I'm now introducing and tolerating things that had been off limits, albeit in small amounts: nuts and seeds, mushrooms, chia, yogurt, sauerkraut, banana. AND, I'm feeling great!...Happy, happy!
I wrote a blog about my research and plan with all the substances. Click on my avi to get to my blog if interested in specifics.
- Messages
- 31
Nice reference book, definitely worth the $8 purchase on Amazon.
Supplement with potato starch: http://www.naturalstacks.com/products/prebiotic-resistant-starch
- Messages
- 25
- Location
- Canada
Hi everyone, this is my first post ever on PR! Hopefully it doesn't break too many forum rules.
I spent the last ten days working my way through this thread with its links, as well as a candida thread, and I skimmed through several threads regarding @Freddd 's myelation protocols. I also started using RS (PS) and probiotics (PA SBOs twice daily) about a week ago and worked my way up to 2 tsps twice daily, a small green bananas, and a variety of RS 3 sources.
I want to thank all of you who contributed to making this an amazing journey! Special thanks to @Ripley, who started it all, @Vegas (your carpal tunnel syndrome did good, I learned so much from your posts - and have so much more to learn to fully understand them), @Gestalt (your "It is almost as if bacteria created humans to carry themselves around." made my day), @Asklipia (your scrumptiously written posts are always so thoughtful), @Sidereel (glad you are finally starting to get better), @adreno (oh, how I can relate to your avatar) and so many others my foggy brain can't recall at this point.
Whether it is from the information overload or my body's reaction to the RS, my brain currently feels like a bowl of mashed potatoes (reheated, of course), seasoned with a combination of arabinogalactans, berberine, pectin, L-methylfolates, a variety of Cbls, mucins, the gamut of gram-negative bacteria, and a gazillion of other things.
So here is my question: knowing what you know now, how/in which order would you approach the topics of methylation, candida eradication, and the reconstruction of the microbiome? You talked about this a little about ten pages ago and I understand that in the long run, nurturing a healthy environment for our friendly bacteria is the way to go, but I am wondering if e.g. methylation might be able to bring about faster results.
A bit about me: I have had POTS for most of my life, I think, and ME/CFS for almost 20 years (if not longer). I also have a host of other syndromes that so often accompany ME/CFS. I have quite successfully managed to make myself sicker and sicker over time by not sufficiently pacing myself. My activity level for the last few years has been somewhere between 1 and 2 (about 1.3 at the moment).
I spent the last ten days working my way through this thread with its links, as well as a candida thread, and I skimmed through several threads regarding @Freddd 's myelation protocols. I also started using RS (PS) and probiotics (PA SBOs twice daily) about a week ago and worked my way up to 2 tsps twice daily, a small green bananas, and a variety of RS 3 sources.
I want to thank all of you who contributed to making this an amazing journey! Special thanks to @Ripley, who started it all, @Vegas (your carpal tunnel syndrome did good, I learned so much from your posts - and have so much more to learn to fully understand them), @Gestalt (your "It is almost as if bacteria created humans to carry themselves around." made my day), @Asklipia (your scrumptiously written posts are always so thoughtful), @Sidereel (glad you are finally starting to get better), @adreno (oh, how I can relate to your avatar) and so many others my foggy brain can't recall at this point.
Whether it is from the information overload or my body's reaction to the RS, my brain currently feels like a bowl of mashed potatoes (reheated, of course), seasoned with a combination of arabinogalactans, berberine, pectin, L-methylfolates, a variety of Cbls, mucins, the gamut of gram-negative bacteria, and a gazillion of other things.
So here is my question: knowing what you know now, how/in which order would you approach the topics of methylation, candida eradication, and the reconstruction of the microbiome? You talked about this a little about ten pages ago and I understand that in the long run, nurturing a healthy environment for our friendly bacteria is the way to go, but I am wondering if e.g. methylation might be able to bring about faster results.
A bit about me: I have had POTS for most of my life, I think, and ME/CFS for almost 20 years (if not longer). I also have a host of other syndromes that so often accompany ME/CFS. I have quite successfully managed to make myself sicker and sicker over time by not sufficiently pacing myself. My activity level for the last few years has been somewhere between 1 and 2 (about 1.3 at the moment).
Asklipia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 999
@Sleeping Beauty
My blessings extend to you too. As I am at present in full synchronicity mode, you may find yourself lucky that I was the first person to "like" you.
In order, with the benefit of experience:
- Make sure you only eat real scrumptious food. I am afraid that this entails feeling unpopular when "friends" try to force the crap they eat onto your plate. Never mind. Who laughs last.
- Pre and Probiotics as much as you can, but careful! SLOW and easy is the only way.
- Candida eradication is not possible, unless you are a saint. They are ready to eat your corpse. Saints do not rot, most probably because they have managed that candida eradication? My guess. Taming your candida is much more achievable. I think @jepps has found a way.
- I do not recommend methylation, unless you are speaking of the Vodka type?
- Supplements are poison because they will not allow you to reach equilibrium (sorry about your POTS - do not fear, it should not last long).
- Special for you : there is an exercise in a book called "Heal Pelvic Pain" p. 34 sqq. Very difficult in the beginning. Take it easy but after 6 months you could be totally cured of POTS. The reasons behind the POTS will still be there though, but it is so nice to get rid of a symptom from time to time.
Good luck!
Asklipia
My blessings extend to you too. As I am at present in full synchronicity mode, you may find yourself lucky that I was the first person to "like" you.
In order, with the benefit of experience:
- Make sure you only eat real scrumptious food. I am afraid that this entails feeling unpopular when "friends" try to force the crap they eat onto your plate. Never mind. Who laughs last.
- Pre and Probiotics as much as you can, but careful! SLOW and easy is the only way.
- Candida eradication is not possible, unless you are a saint. They are ready to eat your corpse. Saints do not rot, most probably because they have managed that candida eradication? My guess. Taming your candida is much more achievable. I think @jepps has found a way.
- I do not recommend methylation, unless you are speaking of the Vodka type?
- Supplements are poison because they will not allow you to reach equilibrium (sorry about your POTS - do not fear, it should not last long).
- Special for you : there is an exercise in a book called "Heal Pelvic Pain" p. 34 sqq. Very difficult in the beginning. Take it easy but after 6 months you could be totally cured of POTS. The reasons behind the POTS will still be there though, but it is so nice to get rid of a symptom from time to time.
Good luck!
Asklipia
Gondwanaland
Senior Member
- Messages
- 5,100
Sleeping Beauty I was hoping you were going to surprise us with a nice summary from these threads
Joking aside, welcome to PR!
- Messages
- 31
Can anyone tell me here, would the Sanum Therapy work synergistically with a herbal/pro-biotic based anti-fungal therapy? Or would these conflict?
I did nowhere read about a contraindication to take herbs and Sanum. I would only consider, that certain herbs could harm the gut flora in the long term, they should only be taken for a certain period. It could be, that certain herbs harm a little, what Sanum repairs.
Probiotics and Sanum fits very well.
Last edited:
whodathunkit
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,160
@Sleeping Beauty: not any of the people you tagged, but I have some experience with this.
I would definitely start with the gut first. I believe some gut therapy I did about five years ago, along with chelation and iodine therapy) gave me a foundational base of health from which to have success with @Freddd's methylation protocol. Without those things and the good results I'd had from them, I believe methylation would have been much harder. Might not have had the energy to see it through the difficult symptoms. It was hard enough and kind of a leap of faith as it was. A leap that thankfully paid big dividends for me.
IMO you don't have to heal your gut completely to benefit from methylation, however. I did not heal my gut completely, and in fact gave up on the probiotics and supplements my doctor put me on after a while, because I seemed to stop seeing benefit from them. It was much slower going with her protocol than it has been since I started addressing the gut with stuff I found in this thread.
But (also just IMO) you should experience appreciable benefits from the gut therapy before going all-in with methylation. That is, some benefit to your health...an increase in stamina, mood well-being, food tolerance, or whatever ails you. I experienced all of these when I did gut therapy five years ago, and even though I did not approach anything like optimal health, the good effects did stick with me over time. Gut and thyroid didn't backslide too much between back then and the time I started methylation at the end of 2013/beginning of 2014.
Please note I do not have a formal diagnosis of CFS, so you can take my advice with a grain of salt if you wish. But after reading around here and understanding a little more about the disease it's possible I could have gotten a diagnosis if I'd pursued it. I dunno. I never talked to my doc much about PEM or general fatigue, etc., because I just thought it was something I had to suck up and get over. Because I have found mainstream doctors so unhelpful in the past, I also hate beyond reason spending a whole lot of money on lab tests and office visits (would rather have the capital to spend on supplements), so maybe don't always get myself the help I need when I need it. Thanks to a good MD who practices alternative, I *was* formally diagnosed with leaky gut, "subclinical" hypothyroid, anemia, and adrenal insufficiency, from the tests I did spring for. These things could also account for most if not all of my symptoms.
I do seem to be healing well now, thanks to methylation and the information on the gut that is here on PR. I keep getting sick (flu symptoms with a minor crash) every few months, but each time I recover I am a little better than before. My stress and exercise tolerance increased with methylation but has increased remarkably since I added the gut stuff from this thread. I'm just getting over another little crash and seem to be experiencing another increase in stamina and tolerance. Time will tell if it's just a flash in the pan.
Hope that helps. Good luck!
I would definitely start with the gut first. I believe some gut therapy I did about five years ago, along with chelation and iodine therapy) gave me a foundational base of health from which to have success with @Freddd's methylation protocol. Without those things and the good results I'd had from them, I believe methylation would have been much harder. Might not have had the energy to see it through the difficult symptoms. It was hard enough and kind of a leap of faith as it was. A leap that thankfully paid big dividends for me.
IMO you don't have to heal your gut completely to benefit from methylation, however. I did not heal my gut completely, and in fact gave up on the probiotics and supplements my doctor put me on after a while, because I seemed to stop seeing benefit from them. It was much slower going with her protocol than it has been since I started addressing the gut with stuff I found in this thread.
But (also just IMO) you should experience appreciable benefits from the gut therapy before going all-in with methylation. That is, some benefit to your health...an increase in stamina, mood well-being, food tolerance, or whatever ails you. I experienced all of these when I did gut therapy five years ago, and even though I did not approach anything like optimal health, the good effects did stick with me over time. Gut and thyroid didn't backslide too much between back then and the time I started methylation at the end of 2013/beginning of 2014.
Please note I do not have a formal diagnosis of CFS, so you can take my advice with a grain of salt if you wish. But after reading around here and understanding a little more about the disease it's possible I could have gotten a diagnosis if I'd pursued it. I dunno. I never talked to my doc much about PEM or general fatigue, etc., because I just thought it was something I had to suck up and get over. Because I have found mainstream doctors so unhelpful in the past, I also hate beyond reason spending a whole lot of money on lab tests and office visits (would rather have the capital to spend on supplements), so maybe don't always get myself the help I need when I need it. Thanks to a good MD who practices alternative, I *was* formally diagnosed with leaky gut, "subclinical" hypothyroid, anemia, and adrenal insufficiency, from the tests I did spring for. These things could also account for most if not all of my symptoms.
I do seem to be healing well now, thanks to methylation and the information on the gut that is here on PR. I keep getting sick (flu symptoms with a minor crash) every few months, but each time I recover I am a little better than before. My stress and exercise tolerance increased with methylation but has increased remarkably since I added the gut stuff from this thread. I'm just getting over another little crash and seem to be experiencing another increase in stamina and tolerance. Time will tell if it's just a flash in the pan.
Hope that helps. Good luck!
- Messages
- 31
@jepps, thank you kindly for the great advice. I've decided to stick with the herbs and see them through to the end, perhaps another month or two before trying Sanum.
Not to say the herbs aren't doing anything. In fact I am stepping up my effort with anti-fungal herbs in a huge way, with a greater variety and using pulse dosing suggested by whodathunkit. Again, thank you for invaluable advice here.
I am hesitant to say something here prematurely. But it's been a few weeks and no indication of side effects. Here goes: I stopped taking anti-depressant 'Lexapro' a few weeks ago, after being on it for many years. Actually I have better clarity now than I did while taking it.
Coincidence? I think not. I tried weening off anti-depressant medication many, MANY times over the past five years without success. Each time I felt so miserable I had to go back on it to cope with this awful brain fog and cognitive fatigue. What is different this time is the enzyme/herbal anti-fungal therapy I started 3 months ago. Now that my long term fungal sinusitus has quieted down, and my gut is starting to show improvement, brain fog and subsequent depression doesn't have the strangle-hold is used to have. I simply do not need the drug anymore.
However as most of you know, that feeling of getting the rug pulled out from underneath just when everything seems to be going well. I know that disappointment all too often, and therefore my hesitancy for making such claim here. Yet if I don't experience any severe setbacks for a few more weeks, this will be a milestone improvement. It's worth noting I am also taking RS + Fibers + probiotics intermittently before bedtime.
Thanks to each and every one of you, this thread has been instrumental in my journey to becoming healthy person again.
Not to say the herbs aren't doing anything. In fact I am stepping up my effort with anti-fungal herbs in a huge way, with a greater variety and using pulse dosing suggested by whodathunkit. Again, thank you for invaluable advice here.
I am hesitant to say something here prematurely. But it's been a few weeks and no indication of side effects. Here goes: I stopped taking anti-depressant 'Lexapro' a few weeks ago, after being on it for many years. Actually I have better clarity now than I did while taking it.
Coincidence? I think not. I tried weening off anti-depressant medication many, MANY times over the past five years without success. Each time I felt so miserable I had to go back on it to cope with this awful brain fog and cognitive fatigue. What is different this time is the enzyme/herbal anti-fungal therapy I started 3 months ago. Now that my long term fungal sinusitus has quieted down, and my gut is starting to show improvement, brain fog and subsequent depression doesn't have the strangle-hold is used to have. I simply do not need the drug anymore.
However as most of you know, that feeling of getting the rug pulled out from underneath just when everything seems to be going well. I know that disappointment all too often, and therefore my hesitancy for making such claim here. Yet if I don't experience any severe setbacks for a few more weeks, this will be a milestone improvement. It's worth noting I am also taking RS + Fibers + probiotics intermittently before bedtime.
Thanks to each and every one of you, this thread has been instrumental in my journey to becoming healthy person again.