The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

Vegas

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The creation and facilitated differentiation of T-regs orchestrates what is largely an anti-inflammatory and immune suppressing role, and these immune cells have also been found to exert control over many parts of our own metabolisms. T-reg proliferation, therefore, modulates an energetic response. Treg's themselves have also recently been proven to promote microbial diversity, which is widely correlated with better health. Treg accumulation like other immune cells mediates a condition and is a restorative process of sorts. Should we concentrate on organisms known to positively regulate this environment, well I'm not sure, but these microbes are generally part of a normal, healthy microbiome and have proven to confer benefits.

The study you referenced identifies some of those clostridal organisms involved in the biosynthesis of butyrate, which of course, is a microbial metabolite, and one that positively regulates the differentiation of FoxP3 cells in the colon. We benefit from the creation of these specialized cells in very specific ways related to minimizing the effects of endotoxins, and the organisms that have proven to be necessary for Treg homeostasis, actually all appear to have vital roles in this process. While Tregs are not only important for regulating the host response to gram negative endotoxins, this appears to be the central feature.

In addition to butyrate availability in the colon, we also know that the carbohydrate outer cell walls of some organisms in our GIT (Bacteroides fragilis) induce the differentiation of CD4 T cells into Foxp3 Tregs. These cells produce IL-10. I suspect that this species polysaccharide A, cell walls which is not endotoxic, serves an immunomodulary role, like butyrate, and downregulates the inflammatory response to endotoxic lipopolysaccharide.

In fact this is what I have been looking for in a prebiotic: an ability to stimulate organisms that possess the ability to neutralize this lipopolysaccharide endotoxin. Many organisms that may act as an antidote of sorts, possess variously structured molecules that mitigate the effects of LPS. Such as through the occupation of the sensors that provoke the immune response to lipopolysaccharide. It appears the closest relatives, those from which gram negative pathogens evolved, have these capabilities. In other words, once you loose them you become infinitely more sensitive to this damn molecule that has few equivalents (to humans) in nature.

What is more toxic to humans than LPS?
 

Vegas

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I will say that this gut modification process became much more tolerable once I started using a TLR4 antagonist (naltrexone) to dampen down the symptoms caused by LPS. After starting LDN my tolerance of prebiotics probably doubled overnight. It is something to consider perhaps for people who are stuck at the first hurdle where literally everything they take causes intolerable systemic inflammatory symptoms.

Or natural TLR4 antagonists: C. Butyricum, Berberine, sophora flavescens. The problem with some of the plant compounds is that, well, they contain lots of other stuff that kicks the immune response into high gear.
 

Sidereal

Senior Member
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4,856
Or natural TLR4 antagonists: C. Butyricum, Berberine, sophora flavescens. The problem with some of the plant compounds is that, well, they contain lots of other stuff that kicks the immune response into high gear.

I'm no fan of pharmacotherapy but it may be necessary for some people in the interim. The problem with these natural substances is that almost invariably the net effect in severely affected ME/CFS patients is more ROS/RNS not less. Pretty much every herb out there that has tons of articles written about its anti-inflammatory properties (and that makes people with normal, straightforward diseases better) has lots of posts on PR about vicious "herxing" it produces.
 

Vegas

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Specifically, when looking at T-regs, there will also be variability based upon the cell type and where the T-regs are generated, i.e. thymus vs. colon vs the peripheral immune system. This is very tissue specific, since there are enormous differences between the need for immunotolerance to antigens, including to lipopolysaccharide. We have immune function that varies greatly between the periphery versus the bowel and I think ME/CFS severity largely reflects this.

O.k. let me focus a bit. What is important in this equation is that the control of T-reg cellular homeostasis has now been proven to be intricately linked certain microbes, certain microbial metabolites, and those nutrients, which are biosynthesized or converted to more or less bioavailable forms by our microbes. Something that hits home with the therapeutic approaches that have been widely discussed and trialed on PR including methylation supplements and GcMAF have enormously important roles that directly effect Treg function. As I have been saying the biosynthesis of tetrahydrofolate, metabolism (hydroxylation and absorption) of vitamin D, and amino acid metabolism/catabolism is stunningly controlled by microbes, both directly and indirectly.

So, first, look at the nutritional factors now proven to have a role in T-reg homeostatis think this is an excellent graphic.

In simple terms notice how the nutritional factors, A, Niacin, D3, and tetrahydrofolate ramp up FoxP3 T-regs

Look at what that nasty Leptin does. It has the opposite effect. The conversion of these vitamins to their active forms all have microbial underpinnings. Some you have probably never heard of, and some are regulated by LPS itself.

upload_2015-3-18_16-41-25.png




Notice how the nutrients positively regulate FoxP3
 

adreno

PR activist
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4,841
Pros and cons to that list. I think you might try some other stuff first. For example, I will be interested to see if Sidereal's tolerance to some of the phenolics improves. I just recently started tolerating turmeric.

Which do you do well with and which are negative?
Turmeric seems fine, but phenolics in general are bad. I do well with folate, vitamin A & D, DHEA. I am waiting to try EGCG.
 

Vegas

Senior Member
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577
Location
Virginia
I'm no fan of pharmacotherapy but it may be necessary for some people in the interim. The problem with these natural substances is that almost invariably the net effect in severely affected ME/CFS patients is more ROS/RNS not less. Pretty much every herb out there that has tons of articles written about its anti-inflammatory properties (and that makes people with normal, straightforward diseases better) has lots of posts on PR about vicious "herxing" it produces.

Yes, I'm not shooting down the synthetic. I'm aware of potential problems with LDN, but if it is an expedient, who the hell cares.

You are right, no perfect plant compound, but I do like the mucilage rich plants as largely being among the most anti-inflammatory.
 

Sidereal

Senior Member
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4,856
There is a blog post on it here, with a long list of things that increase Tregs:

http://selfhacked.com/2014/11/11/treg/

For the link-phobic:
Interesting seeing oxytocin on the list of Treg boosters. It was one of Dr Goldstein's favourite rapid response treatments for ME/CFS. (@zzz)

I do very well with grape seed extract. Astragalus and Cat's claw knock me out. Vit D3 makes me deathly ill.
 

Vegas

Senior Member
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Location
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