The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[ariel]

Probably the result of oxidative stress.

Ok thanks! so how do you rectify it? I have taken anti-oxidants over the years, but perhaps I'm being simplistic.

 

[adreno]

Ok thanks! so how do you rectify it? I have taken anti-oxidants over the years, but perhaps I'm being simplistic.

It is not easily rectified. Oxidative stress is probably central to ME/CFS. Infections, inflammation, mitochondrial dysfunction and physical/mental activity all create ROS, and the body's antioxidant systems become overwhelmed. Antioxidant systems are dependent on NADPH, which seems to be commonly low in ME/CFS. That said, I believe optimizing gut health has a good chance of improving the situation.

 

[Asklipia]

Asklipia, that is very interesting that your finger nail ridges have gone. I've noticed that on a couple of fingers they have significantly lessened, but many remain the same. Did they start to completely go when you reached a certain amount of RS? These little signs are so interesting to watch, I find.

The ridges disappeared when I was on B2, then reappeared a bit. Now, after nearly 10 months on RS and probiotics, they are not coming back.
What I found is that it takes time, a lot of time. With ups and downs. From fairly recently, about a month ago, the downs are not painful. I only notice them because I know that a slight twinge in my left big toe is a down, a small stab under my armpit too, waking up earlier than usual etc. The good news is it is very tolerable, and MUCH LESS painful or frequent than before!!!!! I think these signs happened even before I was sick, but I never took any notice. Now I do, may be too much.

At the moment hair also seems to falling out in big clumps and thinning rapidly. You seem like the type of person who might have an idea! I've tried various things like blackstrap molasses and alfalfa concentrate to no avail. I feel that it must also be related to the gut somehow. ... so much seems to be!

No idea about the hair unfortunately. Same problem here and I can tell you I have never been undernourished. On the other hand, I have quite a lot of new soft CURLY hair. This is strange because my hair was never curly like that. OH YES! It was, at a time, after I had recovered from typhoid when I was young, and lost an incredible amount of hair. It all grew back curly, then after a while it became straight again.
Happy NewYear!
Asklipia

 

[jepps]

If anybody is interested to support the gut additional to RS+fibres, and to treat candida+mould, this is a full description of Sanum:

https://biomedicine.com/public_downloads/PleoSanum/OnllineCourseCurriculumPackage.pdf

and

http://www.collegenaturalmedicine.com/images/LBA/prescripbook.pdf with suggestions for therapies.

Regards, jepps

 

[jepps]

Does anybody know, whether it Is counterproductive to take TCM herbs and RS and fibres? Could TCM herbs decimate the bifidos?

 

[Abha]

He suggests the following SANUM-protocol (homoepathic):
I take the protocol, and mold is in my stool.

Hi Jepps

Thank you for your posts on your treatment and the protocol(Sanum) that you are following.I see too that you are using RS+probiotics +prebiotics.You mention that RS has helped your sleep.I have found that too.I take it with psyllium husks(powder form).
Re the Sanum products can you get them locally or do you obtain them online?Can they be obtained without a doctors request form?Do you follow a very strict candida diet?....Sorry re all the questions but I'm just curious.I'm in the autumn of my life now and looking back I have been battling with candida for many(if not all?)of those years.I have tried all types of treatments/diets but candida has always remained a major problem.I understand that like the parasites that I have,it cannot be eliminated completely, but it has to be minimised so that the sufferer is in control.

 

[jepps]

Thank you for your posts on your treatment and the protocol(Sanum) that you are following.I see too that you are using RS+probiotics +prebiotics.You mention that RS has helped your sleep.I have found that too.I take it with psyllium husks(powder form).
Re the Sanum products can you get them locally or do you obtain them online?Can they be obtained without a doctors request form?Do you follow a very strict candida diet?....Sorry re all the questions but I'm just curious.I'm in the autumn of my life now and looking back I have been battling with candida for many(if not all?)of those years.I have tried all types of treatments/diets but candida has always remained a major problem.I understand that like the parasites that I have,it cannot be eliminated completely, but it has to be minimised so that the sufferer is in control.

Hello Abha,

Asklipia postet here, why RS improves sleep, and why this means, that you immunity is increasing
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ve-been-looking-for.26976/page-94#post-491249 very interesting post.

I buy Sanum online. As it is homöopathic, you do not need a prescription. This protocol I posted is for fighting fungi. In the links they recommend 3-4 months therapy, but my therapist says, I must take the protocol for months or 1-2 years, until fungi is treated. He says, fungi treatment lasts so long, if fungi is in the deepest gut layers.
Maybe it is essential to establish the gut with RS+prebiotics, before taking Sanum. A few years ago I took Sanum, I responded very bad, afraidly I had to stop.
But now I take Sanum since 6 weeks, and have not much problems.

My daughter was born with vaginal candida infection, by myself, I had terrible infantile colics (my mother says, I was a troublesome baby). From a present-day perspective maybe I was also born with candida infection, and this is a life-long problem of me. So it´s no miracle that the therapy lasts time.

Best regards, jepps

 

[ariel]

Thanks Adreno and Asklipia! Very helpful.

Asklipia. I started B2 for a while, but with all the detoxing going on with RS I stopped. There were too many new factors. So, that is interesting. I will take another look at it.
'Same problem here and I can tell you I have never been undernourished.' This made me smile.
The body is a mystery isn't it?
Funnily enough I was also looking at Brahmi. Mostly for my foggy mind! Perhaps it also has other actions though since you mention it the same time as neem.

Since about a week ago I am tolerating RS far more easily now, and might even be able to ramp up to far more significant amounts. I'm also tolerating a teaspoon and a half of beef gelatin with no problems. So can probably start to aim for a whole tablespoon! Gosh! Inconceivable a little while ago!

Best to all.

 

[jepps]

About treating fungi with antifungicides I am sceptic. Chemicals weaken the gut flora. Establish the gut flora lasts long, but fungi increases quickly, when antifungicides are stopped. We never can destroy fungi completely, it is in the air. The goal must be, not to destroy fungi, but to convert fungi in its non-pathogenic form. Once a normal habitant of the colon (not to much, and not the hyphen form), the right diet (individual) ensures, that fungi does not increase and getting pathogene anymore.

RS reduces candida naturally by increasing the immunity, Sanum supports this process by converting fungi.

Study about RS with pigs (the pig colon is similar to the human colon):
http://vegetablepharm.blogspot.co.at/p/blog-page_9020.html

After 97 d, the digestive content from RPS pigs was heavier than for CS pigs, producing a hypertrophy of tunica muscularis. The proportion of butyrate was two-fold higher in proximal colon digesta in RPS pigs. RPS-fed pigs had reduced apoptosis in the crypts, lamina propria and lymphoid nodules in the colon, and ilealPeyer's patches. Fermentation of RPS reduced indices associated with damage to epithelial cells, such as crypt cell proliferation and magnesium excretion, whereasmucinsulfuration was increased, which promotes epithelial protection. The numbers of intraepithelial T cells and of blood leukocytes, neutrophils, and lymphocytes, mainly T-helper lymphocytes, were reduced in RPS pigs.

The Peyer´s patches are so important for the immunity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyer's_patch

Because the lumen of the gastrointestinal tract is exposed to the external environment, much of it is populated with potentially pathogenic microorganisms. Peyer's patches thus establish their importance in the immune surveillance of the intestinal lumen and in facilitating the generation of the immune response within the mucosa.

Pathogenic microorganisms and other antigens entering the intestinal tract encounter macrophages, dendritic cells, B-lymphocytes, and T-lymphocytes found in Peyer's patches and otherMucosa Associated Lymphoid Tissue (MALT).

Best regards, jepps

 

[Sidereal]

Does anybody know, whether it Is counterproductive to take TCM herbs and RS and fibres? Could TCM herbs decimate the bifidos?

It's possible. Different herbs have vastly different effects. The (non-human) study I linked a few pages ago was suggesting that berberine lowers bifido. I've used bitter melon and triphala in the past with mixed results. Personally, herbal antimicrobials make me nervous since you never know what they're going to kill off and what's going to move in once the real estate becomes available.

 

[Gondwanaland]

What is the general opinion here regarding colon cleanse? Can the appendix effectively repopulate the gut on its own after a cleanse?

 

[jepps]

Personally, herbal antimicrobials make me nervous since you never know what they're going to kill off and what's going to move in once the real estate becomes available.

Thank you, I agree, and will take no mixed TCM herbs.

These are some special herbs, which promote the gut flora because of the high polysaccharides:
http://www.pacificcollege.edu/acupu...ne-tools-to-replenish-and-repair-our-gut.html

Huang Qi (astragalus) is an extremely powerful herb used alone or in formulas. Huang Qi’s high polysaccharides content is fantastic at improving overall immune health and the growth of healthy bacteria.14 “The safest way to increase your microbial biodiversity is to eat a variety of polysaccharides,”15 (Other single herbs with substancial Sp/St benefits are codonopsis (dangshen), atractylodes (baizhu), Chinese angelica (dang gui) dioscorea (shanyao), lotus seed (lianzi), roasted ginger (paojiang), longan (long yan rou), and baked licorice (zhi gan cao).

According berberine, my girlfriend takes berberine+RS+fibres, the stooltest compared to mine maybe will show differences.

I assume, each herb, which acts antimicrobiell, when given in higher doses, can deminish not only pathogens, but also the gut flora, and is no good idea,

Gondwanaland, do you mean colon hydro? Kresser posts, that they are to invasive for a compromised gut flora. I did several, and felt fine afterwards, but only for a short time, my TCM doctor says, even enemas drain the colon, and this is a two-edged sword when the bowel mucosa is compromised.

 

[jepps]

The (non-human) study I linked a few pages ago was suggesting that berberine lowers bifido.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20828550

Treating C3H/HeN and C3H/HeJ mice with berberine significantly reduced the number of Enterobacteriaceae induced by TNBS, but restored the number of Bifidobacteria reduced by TNBS. Furthermore, berberine potently inhibited LPS-induced inflammation in peritoneal macrophages mainly via NF-κB and weakly via MAPKs

Berberine could be worth a try, as it treats SIBO, if somebody reacts bad to prebiotics.

Regards, jepps

 

[Vegas]

The ridges disappeared when I was on B2, then reappeared a bit. Now, after nearly 10 months on RS and probiotics, they are not coming back.E]

Flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD) is synthesized from riboflavin, and flavin adenine dinucleotide (FADH2) is a product of glycolysis/the kreb's cycle/Beta oxidation. The provision of butyrate will enhance all of these processes, including the formation of flavin coenzymes. In other words, eventually the effects of riboflavin will no longer become noticeable and "super-supplementation" will be replaced by your own more efficient metabolism.

 

[Asklipia]

Flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD) is synthesized from riboflavin, and flavin adenine dinucleotide (FADH2) is a product of glycolysis/the kreb's cycle/Beta oxidation. The provision of butyrate will enhance all of these processes, including the formation of flavin coenzymes. In other words, eventually the effects of riboflavin will no longer become noticeable and "super-supplementation" will be replaced by your own more efficient metabolism.

Yes, in fact I have not taken any B2 or MK4 for ages. I do not need them anymore. It seems that the RS and probiotics are doing their job.

 

[Vegas]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20828550



Berberine could be worth a try, as it treats SIBO, if somebody reacts bad to prebiotics.

Regards, jepps

Perhaps the whole Goldenseal root vs. Berberine might be a better idea. As a quaternary alkaloid, berberine might be poorly tolerated by some; yet its chemical structure has potent abilities in mitigating the effects of lipopolysaccharide.

 

[Asklipia]

How are you @Vegas? I noticed you have not been posting for a while. I wish you and your family a Happy Year 2015 with health and very good times!

 

[Vegas]

Thank you, I agree, and will take no mixed TCM herbs.

These are some special herbs, which promote the gut flora because of the high polysaccharides:
http://www.pacificcollege.edu/acupu...ne-tools-to-replenish-and-repair-our-gut.html


According berberine, my girlfriend takes berberine+RS+fibres, the stooltest compared to mine maybe will show differences.

I assume, each herb, which acts antimicrobiell, when given in higher doses, can deminish not only pathogens, but also the gut flora, and is no good idea,

Gondwanaland, do you mean colon hydro? Kresser posts, that they are to invasive for a compromised gut flora. I did several, and felt fine afterwards, but only for a short time, my TCM doctor says, even enemas drain the colon, and this is a two-edged sword when the bowel mucosa is compromised.

These plant compounds in fact nearly always have antimicrobial properties that harm both commensal and pathogenic organisms, but on the whole I believe most of these plant compounds are beneficial. One's individual response could be highly variable depending upon how efficiently one metabolizes many of these plant compounds, many being bacteriocidic and others supportive of growth. The individual response is obviously a feature of many things including the microbial composition and the very complex host-microbial metabolic products that are synthesized and regulate this ecosystem.

I think it is highly likely that those with ME/CFS are much more susceptible to adversely impacting their individual microbiomes with these substances, although it's hard to predict which whole plant products would be more or less suitable other than by gauging symptoms, which isn't going to be that instructive in the short-term.

As I see it, many of the compounds in plants accumulate for various purpose. There is not only a significance to the difficulty many have in metabolizing certain compounds but there are, I believe, functional roles for this metabolic inefficiency. These metabolic road blocks in metabolizing many plant compounds can actually reduce oxidative and nitrosative stress, chiefly by modulating an immune response. For example, when someone feels sick when they eat alkaloids or lectins, sure these can be toxic to those that are healthy, but there is a specific purpose that this achieves. As in the case of berberine, this nitrogenous substance, this amine, this quaternary isoquinoline alkaloid has an effect on your immune system.

I would think as a general recommendation that patient's with ME/CFS avoid some concentrated, extracted plant compounds and look at the whole plant, and take these things more judiciously. I would argue that just about all of the plants with antimicrobial properties are still better than prescription antibiotics. I've looked at the metabolic signatures of post-rifaximin & tetracyline AB treatment and I don't think people want these shifts.

 

[Vegas]

What is the general opinion here regarding colon cleanse? Can the appendix effectively repopulate the gut on its own after a cleanse?

I've never really understood the purpose of this "therapy" and what it aims to achieve. Other than the relatively new research about the appendix sequestering bacteria, we don't really know about the efficacy of this process.

 

[Sidereal]

I've looked at the metabolic signatures of post-rifaximin & tetracyline AB treatment and I don't think people want these shifts.

Could you elaborate on this a bit, if you have time?