The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[Gondwanaland]

Mg doesn't help much. Haven't tried bicarb. Have you found these useful?

In my case I found that the organic forms of magnesium (citratre, glycinate, aspartate) just added to ammonia build up or to increased acidity, and Mg sulfate (Epsom salts) interacted negatively with ammonia. I assume that when acidity is high, magnesium oxide is a good form to take and it helped me immensely.

Likewise, sodium bicarbonate antagonizes acidity and can be used transdermally in foot and hand soaks. I even took bicarb baths during high ammonia/uric acid causing salicylate intolerance (urine pH went from 4.5 to 6 and food intolerance is gone) and have been using it as a shower scrub and am very happy with it.

@ariel I am appalled by the inflammation psyllium and potato starch caused me I am still trying to find a way to take RS and/or fibers and trying to figure out what gives!

 

[Sidereal]

In my case I found that the organic forms of magnesium (citratre, glycinate, aspartate) just added to ammonia build up or to increased acidity, and Mg sulfate (Epsom salts) interacted negatively with ammonia. I assume that when acidity is high, magnesium oxide is a good form to take and it helped me immensely.

Likewise, sodium bicarbonate antagonizes acidity and can be used transdermally in foot and hand soaks. I even took bicarb baths during high ammonia/uric acid causing salicylate intolerance (urine pH went from 4.5 to 6 and food intolerance is gone) and have been using it as a shower scrub and am very happy with it.

@ariel I am appalled by the inflammation psyllium and potato starch caused me I am still trying to find a way to take RS and/or fibers and trying to figure out what gives!

Thanks, that's very interesting. I am leery of bicarb but may try transdermal. I took potassium bicarb orally some years ago and developed extreme muscle weakness including breathing muscles.

Some other ideas for dealing with uric acid buildup, I am currently working my way through various xanthine oxidase inhibitors. Cherry extract didn't do much but grape seed extract seems to actually be easing joint pain. I'm also going to try inositol and quercetin. I know many here don't do well with phenols so obviously caution is needed.

If psyllium and RPS are causing you massive inflammation, you are probably just taking doses that are too high and/or too frequent. Normal people can take several tablespoons every day and feel good whereas people with ME/CFS may be able to tolerate only a quarter teaspoon once or twice a week to start off with. The effects are also cumulative. Sometimes I don't realise I've been overdoing it until days later when I get slammed with inflammation out of nowhere.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I took potassium bicarb orally some years ago and developed extreme muscle weakness including breathing muscles.

Me too, extreme LOW blood pressure and almost fainted.

I am in the look for another antioxidants, thanks for the tips. Fish oil and Gamma E have been working well for me for a year now, but I need more if I want to have success with RS. Can't take vit C since it stimulates thyroid. Best anti-inflammatories so far were Mg oxide and Na bicarb - it's a pity they didn't help with bowel movements.

I have been avoiding all of those you mentioned due to phenols, including grape seed extract. Quercitin is definetly not for me. I just received my order of LAG and a new Bcomplex w/ inositol. Also K2 mk4 and ubiquinol. Let's see how it goes.

I once tried pycnogenol - caused inflammation at first, but later subsided, will have to retry it.

a quarter teaspoon once or twice a week to start off with

I started w/ 1/2 tsp daily and worked up 1x weekly to 1 Tbsp and it was a disaster indeed. Now I am taking just a smidge of psyllium at breakfast and dinner. The thing is that no benefits come from such low doses

 

[Sidereal]

Me too, extreme blood pressure and almost fainted.

I am in the look for another antioxidants, thanks for the tips. Fish oil and Gamma E have been working well for me for a year now, but I need more if I want to have success with RS. Can't take vit C since it stimulates thyroid. Best anti-inflammatories so far were Mg oxide and Na bicarb - it's a pity they didn't help with bowel movements.

I have been avoiding all of those you mentioned due to phenols, including grape seed extract. Quercitin is definetly not for me. I just received my order of LAG and a new Bcomplex w/ inositol. Also K2 mk4 and ubiquinol. Let's see how it goes.

I once tried pycnogenol - caused inflammation at first, but later subsided, will have to retry it.

I hear you. Phenols used to make me really sick but my tolerance of them seems to have increased thanks to working on my gut. Taking stuff like grape seed extract would have been unthinkable a year ago.

Good luck with the LAG. Again, I would start with tiny doses. Personally for me LAG turned into an insomnia nightmare.

I started w/ 1/2 tsp daily and worked up 1x weekly to 1 Tbsp and it was a disaster indeed. Now I am taking just a smidge of psyllium at breakfast and dinner. The thing is that no benefits come from such low doses

Yes, that's the problem. I no longer think that RS is a good prebiotic to start off with. Many sick people find it too inflammatory. For several months now I have backed off of it in a fairly big way and only take it occasionally. Have you read Vegas' most recent mosts about mannans and xylans? These may be better substrates to try. Natural sources of these like aloe vera and algae may dampen the inflammatory response.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Right now I tolerate phenols perfectly well - but still avoid concentrated forms like quercetin. Grape SE is estrogenic, and I have been avoiding that due to low thyroid.

I forgot to mention I have been taking astaxanthin in the past week - not sure about the results. My husband tried it once and got an itchy scalp. As rule I have been avoiding algae due to iodine content though. Not sure if I will keep the astaxanthin. I'm off of it this current week.

I have been told that aloe vera is a carcinogen when taken internally, so gotta research more about it before trying it.

Thanks about the warning re LAG - will not take it in the evening!

Edit - would like to add that @picante suggested a new form of anti-inflammatory here.

Above I meant to say potassium bicarb caused me extreme LOW BP.

 

[ahmo]

@Gondwanaland I'm generally very sensitive to iodine. I've been really happy w/ astxanthin, taking it several months, and in the moment, higher doses to reduce ammonia. No symptoms of iodine.

 

[ariel]

I was very irritable today after not really taking much of anything yesterday, so thank you Sidereal for this observation
'Sometimes I don't realise I've been overdoing it until days later when I get slammed with inflammation out of nowhere.' The inflammation has been a lot more immediate in the past, so I didn't quite pick up on the build-up til now. Sigh.

Gondwanaland -- Yes seems like a common story re the inflammation.
I, probably like others, just jumped straight into various starches. That is why I stopped everything and decided to take some herbals for a while like neem, then various probiotics, then the starches. Though I must say that even after having done all that the starches still catch me off guard.
I think the current culprit is some mung bean starch that I started the other day and had just a tad too much of.
I have probably repeated this a couple of times, but the only thing that has kept me going in all this is coffee enemas. Getting stuff out of me as quickly as possible has been key. The lift in the body burden once it is out is huge.
I also yet again realised that I hadn't taken my liposomal C for a couple of days, hence why I feel irritable and uncomfortable today. Have just rectified that! waiting for it to kick in.
It is a shame you can't take vit c. For me lipo c has been another huge part of the puzzle. The effect it has had on my energy and adrenals makes it irreplaceable.

The strange part of all this is that there is some kind of deep desire to consume more starches. As if there is a part hungry, even ravenous for it - the gut bugs I guess. So I often find myself adding in a little more starch than is wise. And then when the inflammation, irritation, swollen lymph, aching liver etc etc, hits I just feel like crawling up walls.
I also seem to keep forgetting that each new starch is like starting over. So really should of known better re the mung bean. Ah well. Will definitely be looking at spirulina rather than some kind of concentrated XOS.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I didn't buy my LAG from iHerb, but just went there to read the reviews... LAG is an immuno stimulant. It kept me wondering if all this RS stuff isn't about immunostimulation... It also gave me a new insight as to why I don't tolerate vit C, and also have bbeen doing poorly with probiotics.

Well, my immune system is overactive I guess with the antibodies against thyroid and all. Now I know what to expect when I begin LDN (which is an immuno modulator).

So I don't think I will even open my LAG bottle. I will keep it with the psyllium and the PS

Rambling over.

 

[Sidereal]

I've recently been reading the report from the Institute of Medicine 2014 workshop on the microbiome and its role in human health and disease. It includes this figure which I thought was a pretty elegant summary of the topics discussed in the 100+ pages here:

 

[dannybex]

I get a paradoxical reaction with gelatin and glycine. I become alert, agitated and anxious for an hour or two and I develop severe muscle pain which lasts 24 hours. They worsen excitotoxicity / glutamate excess for me. Unsurprisingly the same thing happens when I take another supplement that's supposed to help the gut lining - glutamine.

Folks over on the 'low-oxalate' yahoo group claim that glycine can increase endogenous oxalate production, which in some can cause kidney stones, but also muscle (fibro-like) pain.

 

[Gondwanaland]

They worsen excitotoxicity / glutamate excess for me. Unsurprisingly the same thing happens when I take another supplement that's supposed to help the gut lining - glutamine

Glutamine quickly increases RBC and WBC counts. I suppose it makes it a potent immunestimulator. My experience w/ glycine tells me that it increases ammonia and that is enough to keep me away from it.

the report from the Institute of Medicine 2014 workshop on the microbiome and its role in human health and disease

Thanks for linking it here. I will have to read the text in order to understand that chart.

 

[jepps]

One goal of RS is to overcome Candida. Dr. Georgiou, who had by himself CFS+ME+fibromyalgia for 7 years, claims, that by treating candida (which lasts very long) many CFS-symptoms are much better, and other infections can be much better treated.

http://www.naturaltherapycenter.com/candida-treatment-protocol/
He writes, that it is importent, to transform the pathogenic hyphe-candida to the non-pathogenic candida, and that this can be enabled with SANUM-remedies:

Prof. Enderlein’s Sanum remedies work by changing the harmful microorganisms in the body fluids to non-aggressive forms, probably by changing the pH and electrical conductivity – see Explore! The Physics Behind Live Blood Analysis and Zeta Potentials, Vol. 14, No. 5., September 2005 by the same author. Harmful bacteria and toxins are broken down and excreted through natural processes. They also help to alleviate the dysbiosis and bring the internal mileau of the intestine back into balance.

He suggests the following SANUM-protocol (homoepathic):

1. Mucokehl D5 tabs – 1 tab twice weekly.
2. Pefrakehl D4 caps – 1 cap twice weekly.
3. Notakehl D5 tabs – 1 tab twice weekly.
4. Fortakehl D5 tabs – 1 tab twice weekly.
5. Nigersan D5 tabs – 1 tab twice weekly.
6. Albicansan D4 caps – 1 cap twice weekly

I take the protocol, and mold is in my stool.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I take the protocol, and mold is in my stool.

You mean you have started to expel it?

 

[jepps]

You mean you have started to expel it?

Yes, I never had mold in my mucus before, neither in stool, nor showing in stool tests. I´m curious to the next stool test, whether it shows mold excretion.

 

[Asklipia]

I take the protocol, and mold is in my stool.

@jepps
This is really interesting and thank you for posting this!

If I understand you well,
- you found mould in your stool as a result of a stool test?
- you had stool tests before that never showed mould excretion?
- you had mucus tests that did not show mould excretion?

Could you share about how long you have taken this protocol and if you suffered die-off symptoms when taking it?
Thanks and Happy New Year!
Asklipia

 

[jepps]

Hello Asklipia,

Greetings and a Happy New Year for you, your family and everyone here, and overall success for 2015!

My protocol is specific for treating candida and mold: I took/take according to my therapeuth:

- first 10 days exmykehl D3 (1 tab morning and 1 evening) for Candida and gut milieu, then
- 10 days fortakehl D3 (1 tab morning and 1 evening) for gut milieu, then
- 5 days (monday to friday) mucokehl D3 for Candida 1 tab in the morning, Nigersan D3 for mold in the evening 1 tab
- 2 days (saturday and sunday) exmykehl for Candida and gut milieu, (1 tab morning and 1 evening)

This protocol should be done (mucokehl+nigersan MO-FR, exmykehl SA-SO) several months or years, until candida+molud are treated.

I do stool tests for several years, one test every 6 weeks, it never showed mold, sometimes it showed a little bit candida. Since takig RS+probiotics+prebiotics (summer), the stool test shows candida-excretion (the highest possible level). Since starting taking nigersan (starting 5 weeks ago), which treates aspergillus, my stool is grey, and overdrawn with grey mold, I never excreted mold before. I do my next stool text in 2 weeks.

I tried to take SANUM a few years ago, I stopped, because of bad reactions. Now I take SANUM since 6 weeks, and the reactions keep within a limit: sometimes I have more inflammation for several days. In general, I note, that therapies are not so hard when supporting the gut with taking RS+prebiotics+prebiotics and a good diet.

I do bioenergetic testing, and the test showed after taking nigersan the excretion of substances, which are allergic for my organism: tetanus-vaccine, thioether, skatol (toxic byproducts of the gut, hard for the liver). As Yasko supposes, each microbe binds to certain toxic substances, which are mobilized, when the microbe is addressed.

Possibly it´s better, if somebody interests for homoepathic treatment of mold and candida, to establish the gut first with RS+probiotics+prebiotics.
I often read, that several of CFS-symptomes are gone, when candida is treated, or other infections are much better treatable, and that pregnancy and hormon pils are a risc for fungi. Maybe women have more often CFS, because we have more candida infections. Candida itself is more pathogenic then in earlier times because the colon milieu has changed because of modified diet and environment.

Sorry for the long post.
Best regards, jepps

 

[Asklipia]

@jepps Thank you for this long response. There is much to ponder which is why I did not answer immediately. The details of the protocol you followed are very valuable, I am sure many will be interested. I certainly am!

I did stool tests for several years, one test every 6 weeks, it never showed mold, sometimes it showed a little bit candida. Since taking RS+probiotics+prebiotics (summer), the stool test shows candida-excretion (the highest possible level).

Could what you described be interpreted as = After starting RS + probiotics + prebiotics you suddenly DEVELOPED candida?

Or is it that you feel so much better that you feel that you are getting rid of pre-existing candida?

For my part I feel better and better with my RS + probiotics + prebiotics. No doubt that the candida/mould load has been reduced. No more ridges on nails, a few moles gone, the skin looks free from any fungus.

Apart from this I am taking neem leaves (350 mg four times a week) and brahmi leaves (350 mg) every day. Apart from a lot of curcuma in my food. No more curcuma vaping as my sinuses have been perfect for the last 6 months.
Enjoy 2015 and thanks again for posting your protocol!

Asklipia

 

[jepps]

@jepps Thank you for this long response. There is much to ponder which is why I did not answer immediately. The details of the protocol you followed are very valuable, I am sure many will be interested. I certainly am!

Thank you very much, Asklipia, this is very nice from you!

Could what you described be interpreted as = After starting RS + probiotics + prebiotics you suddenly DEVELOPED candida?

Definitely, I took RS (3 tsp) and LAG (3 tsp) for 3 weeks from the End of July, the next stool test showed the highest possible level on candida, which I never had before. I also take other fibres (pectine, baobab, cognac root, psyllium) and probiotics (Complete Probiotics Dr. Mercola, Prescript Assist, Saccharomyces boulardii) from the beginning of April, but they changed nothing on my stool test.

Or is it that you feel so much better that you feel that you are getting rid of pre-existing candida?

No, my stool test still shows the highest possible candida level, all tests from August to December shows the same high candida excretion. Lactos and bacteroides species, which were very low, were in the norm. Bifidos did not increase, maybe they are needed for the fungi.

For my part I feel better and better with my RS + probiotics + prebiotics. No doubt that the candida/mould load has been reduced. No more ridges on nails, a few moles gone, the skin looks free from any fungus.

Thank you for posting this. I assume, that fungi treatment is a long term approach.
Dr. Enderlein supposes, that candida+mould normally are normal habitants of the digestive tract. When the milieu changes (f.ex. because of not correct diet or chemicals), candida+mould switch to the pathogenic form, making the gut unhealthy and attractive for bacteria, viruses and parasites, which both get more and more resistent to treatments.
Mucokehl, Nigersan and Exmykehl involve the non-pathogenic form of candida and mould, when given, they coalesce with the pathogenic forms, and so get dissolved. The longer the supplements are given, the more fungi are in the non-pathogenic form.

RS and fibres also change the milieu, but maybe Sanum could improve the therapy. RS reduces PEM, so the detoxification of fungi is not so hard. As candida holds on to metals, it might be of advantage, to take some chlorella or zeolith or anything else for bindung the toxins.

For me, the most remarkable improvement after 5 months RS is good sleep, less inflammation and above all the better pulse rate: my morning pulse was relatively high, during detoxification protocols it was 100-115. Now it is 70-80, despite the body releases mould, candida, metals and other toxins.

Enjoy 2015 and thanks again for posting your protocol!

Asklipia

Thank you, Asklipia, and all of you for your posts in this thread! This is so much help and improvement for me and others! Have a good year and good improvements in health in 2015!

 

[ariel]

Thanks for the links Jepps. I haven't had a chance to look at it properly, but it is very interesting that there was mould in your stool. I wonder if the RS and Larch you took were helping you to excrete candida, just like the new medicine ??

Asklipia, that is very interesting that your finger nail ridges have gone. I've noticed that on a couple of fingers they have significantly lessened, but many remain the same. Did they start to completely go when you reached a certain amount of RS? These little signs are so interesting to watch, I find.
On another note, I have often wondered about the amount of grey hair I have. I started getting greys in my twenties. Now I have so many, and I feel far too young for that! I feel that like the finger nail ridges it is a sign of something, and not just vanity or old age. At the moment it also seems to falling out in big clumps and thinning rapidly. You seem like the type of person who might have an idea! I've tried various things like blackstrap molasses and alfalfa concentrate to no avail. I feel that it must also be related to the gut somehow. ... so much seems to be!

Happy New Year to all!

 

[adreno]

On another note, I have often wondered about the amount of grey hair I have.

Probably the result of oxidative stress.