Supplements and Drugs That Reduce or Prevent PEM (Post-Exertional Malaise)

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Due to TOS I can't say what I am going to do about this, but I certainly is not going to be very pretty indeed. I've had enough of these criminals, and lucky enough not to be bedbound. I like my sleep time. That's all I can say due to terms of service.
There are legal things that are benzos you can buy on theclear net, the regular internet. Like etizolam. Hopefully mods dont censor this bc etizolam has been shown to be safe in many studies , is still legal, will prevent withdrawals , but also there is no reason to do what I can tell you are saying between the lines about "TOS". I mean I respect anyone's decision to do that in general, but there is no reason to do that over benzos supply, it is totally possible to supply yourself. If you can get a passport so many mexican farmacias, at least small ones that aren't chains in cities , will sell valium or clonazepam or any benzo to you. There is lots of info of 5his online . I can link it later. Also if you look further up in the thread , I have listed things like imidazenil that can help.

If you couldn't source etizolam somehow, even though there are websites that still have it, and you didn't want to go to ER but want to prevent seizures or withdrawls, one thing I've done when running out is take phenibut , which you can buy online but is essentially a different kind of gabaergic than benzos, sort of similar to ghb or baclofen mixed with gabapentin. It will almost certainly prevent withdrawals but you want to also watch blood pressure as that can raise in benzos withdrawal and so I'd also take something like clonidine, guanfacine , or a beta blocker ... all things most doctors would give you either for anxiety or sleep or high blood pressure or heart rate or POTS. Seriously man, I realize its grim with doctors. I just talked to a pain doc who wont prescribe my valium and pain meds at the same time even tho I've been dependent on benzos for years and also need the pain meds. But there are avenues for this stuff and you dont need to do anythi ng drastic.

I can help you, or if I'm too tired and in pain, my sister can help you. You can message me , and ask for my phone number to talk off site. This issue of docs not refilling benzod scripts I was dependent on started years ago for me so I found other ways to fill the gaps , I have no shame about it, the withdrawals will kill you otherwise.
 

seamyb

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My insomnia is only controlled by a benzodiazapine. Once that is cut off, and it will be one day, things ain't going to be very pretty. I use a standard, but high dose Rx'ed by a doctor. The government doesn't like people on them,
since they are abused by DRUGGIES (no apologies will ever be given to my use of that term) They crush them up and snort it up their noses to get a high.

So now, we who don't have highs on them, have to pay for their crimes. Due to TOS I can't say what I am going to do about this, but I certainly is not going to be very pretty indeed. I've had enough of these criminals, and lucky enough not to be bedbound. I like my sleep time. That's all I can say due to terms of service.
You don't think people who are taking drugs for a high, ruining their lives and damaging their health are doing so because of an illness? People live in poverty amongst people who have everything and their entire existence is a societal illness, not to mention the myriad of medical illnesses they have an astronomically disproportionate rate of.

Unless we're talking only of those middle class druggies who don't become addicted through social deprivation and just want a bit of a high. Even then, your issue shouldn't be with which methods people choose to enjoy themselves under the conditions they hurt nobody else, it should be with the people who enforce hypocritical laws on which unhealthy chemicals people are allowed to get high on.

Druggies aren't your problem, the war on drugs is.
 

Rvanson

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You don't think people who are taking drugs for a high, ruining their lives and damaging their health are doing so because of an illness? People live in poverty amongst people who have everything and their entire existence is a societal illness, not to mention the myriad of medical illnesses they have an astronomically disproportionate rate of.

Unless we're talking only of those middle class druggies who don't become addicted through social deprivation and just want a bit of a high. Even then, your issue shouldn't be with which methods people choose to enjoy themselves under the conditions they hurt nobody else, it should be with the people who enforce hypocritical laws on which unhealthy chemicals people are allowed to get high on.

Druggies aren't your problem, the war on drugs is.
Yes, but did the chicken come before the egg? As I said, and apparently I will have to declare that it was druggies who started the so-called "War on Drugs". If you think I am heartless to them, you'd be quite mistaken. Yet, how is it that I have never snorted up ANY benzodiazepine medication, in all of these years? Not even _ONCE_.

And ,YES, the druggies are hurting me. The psycho-quacks are doling out anti-psychotic medications, like Seroquel, to replace benzodiazepines, and yet I have no psychotic illness whatsoever. As I said, do not expect ANY empathy, remorse or some apologies for my stand on this subject. whatsoever. You can pound sand, pal.
 
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Yes, but did the chicken come before the egg? As I said, and apparently I will have to declare that it was druggies who started the so-called "War on Drugs". If you think I am heartless to them, you'd be quite mistaken. Yet, how is it that I have never snorted up ANY benzodiazepine medication, in all of these years? Not even _ONCE_.

And ,YES, the druggies are hurting me. The psycho-quacks are doling out anti-psychotic medications, like Seroquel, to replace benzodiazepines, and yet I have no psychotic illness whatsoever. As I said, do not expect ANY empathy, remorse or some apologies for my stand on this subject. whatsoever. You can pound sand, pal.
"Druggies " didnt start the war on drugs. The government did. They banned opium even when it was an otc medication that wasn't abused by anyone.

By the way, I told you a bunch of things you could do about your situation. That seems more important than whose to blame. Personally I blame the DEA more than the person whose just a consumer and subject to supply and demand.
 

Rvanson

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"Druggies " didnt start the war on drugs. The government did. They banned opium even when it was an otc medication that wasn't abused by anyone.

By the way, I told you a bunch of things you could do about your situation. That seems more important than whose to blame. Personally I blame the DEA more than the person whose just a consumer and subject to supply and demand.
You can blame it on the FDA, DEA or whomever, but it'd be nice if they OD'ed on a common street drug. I need my sleep which I am told Heroin does effectively.

Why, and more to the point, Where are these people obtaining Benzodiazepines? I've never had a "high" off the one I use so I can get some sleep, and I'm pretty sure it would not last long if I ever shot it up my big snozzola, although that is pure speculation on my part. I don't abuse it. If one is an insomniac like me, you don't do that.
 
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Why, and more to the point, Where are these people obtaining Benzodiazepines? I've never had a "high" off the one I use so I can get some sleep, and I'm pretty sure it would not last long if I ever shot it up my big snozzola, although that is pure speculation on my part. I don't abuse it. If one is an insomniac like me, you don't do that.
See this is part of the problem. I am telling you that there are ways to obtain medications, and it's not to abuse them. I dont abuse benzodiazepines, I was in a similar situation S you where I got cut off ... or actually in my case it was dumber, a doctor just continually forgetting to do prompt refills even though I would have physical withdrawals . And so I found other sources of benzodiazepines as well as looking for other ways to attenuate withdrawals... things that are found in the literature. And now it seems you're insinuating that this means abuse or I'm abusing benzodiazepines, when in fact I'm a patient who needs them and gets no high, like you, and I'm saying I can help you avoid withdrawals and get what you need, and that seems more important than apportioning blame.

There are always going to be addicts it's simple supply and demand. On the other hand the DEA and all three letter orgs besides the EPA maybe (environmental protection is good, but the CIA and FBI do evil things) is an evil organization that hurts not just addicts, who you dont need to have sympathy for but are often normal people with aproblem, but additionally they arrest docs who prescribe pain meds or controlled substances even if they did nothing wrong. Your doctor is probably scared bc of the DEA or something so if you want someone to blame look at them.

Also maybe addicts do snort benzodiazepines but they're not water soluble so that makes no sense... additionally , some people who are labeled "addicts" in government statistics aren't addicts... they may be someone who got cut off a benzo supply without 6tapering and needed to continue to take benzos to live... or they had adhd and couldn't function --most adhd people report trying adderall or something like that before eventually deciding to get formally evaluated and legally prescribed those meds. That's another problem with being mad at addicts is that it's a term thrown around very loosely by government agencies that are full of dumb cops who aren't doctors and have no medical degree or ability to determine if someone is indeed an "addict".

So , by your response, I'm still not sure if you would like help with avoiding withdrawal, or would rather just be angry at me or wallow in self pity. This disease sucks, doctors suck, etc etc but as far as I'm concerned we have to emotionally compartmentalize and keep moving.
 
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. I need my sleep which I am told Heroin does effectively.
Well, because of the war on drugs lowering heroin supply and destroying poppy fields in afghanistan, I'm pretty sure, now all "heroin" is just baby powder with fentanyl, which is far more unsafe, can hardly blame people for preferring pharmaceuticals --although there are many pharmaceutical fake pills with fentanyl as well.

You realize that because of the DEAs policy, lots of people who were legitimately prescribed meds end up being lumped in as "addicts" bc when they have a spinal fusion and get cut off pain meds they have to turn to street meds or something. Agencies like that Nd also most doctors dont care about the fine distinctions between having a legitimate reason for your medication , self or otherwise.
 
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Why, and more to the point, Where are these people obtaining Benzodiazepines? I've never had a "high" off the one I use so I can get some sleep, and I'm pretty sure it would not last long if I ever shot it up my big snozzola, although that is pure speculation on my part. I don't abuse it. If one is an insomniac like me, you don't do that.
Oh I misread this. So, more to the point , I made an earlier post saying there are ways you can obtain these meds safely and regularly so that you dont die when cut off. and you dont need to do this forever necessarily, if you use the Ashton taper plus something like imidazenil, which is a non tolerance forming , novel, and very miraculous substance, you could probably get off the meds. Or not. You could take them for as long as you want. But you definitely can't stop cold Turkey. However, I'm tired of discussing "addicts" and who is at fault for this problem, I'm trying to offer you a solution, but if you'd rather not take it, I really could care less... I dont have the energy to try and convince people to accept help lol.
 

Rvanson

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Oh I misread this. So, more to the point , I made an earlier post saying there are ways you can obtain these meds safely and regularly so that you dont die when cut off. and you dont need to do this forever necessarily, if you use the Ashton taper plus something like imidazenil, which is a non tolerance forming , novel, and very miraculous substance, you could probably get off the meds. Or not. You could take them for as long as you want. But you definitely can't stop cold Turkey. However, I'm tired of discussing "addicts" and who is at fault for this problem, I'm trying to offer you a solution, but if you'd rather not take it, I really could care less... I dont have the energy to try and convince people to accept help lol.
My psychiatrist would have no way to prescribe Imidazenil. It is not in the medication list of any US medication. Furthermore, although I DO appreciate your help, but the search says that is does not cause the sedation, which I need for sleep.

Alprazolam works quickly, giving me 6-7 hours of sleep with NO side effects, like feeling groggy, when I wake up. It is very sort acting, unlike the only Benzodiazepine medication, Klonopin, which is used much,which has a half-life too long for me, and it simply takes too long to put me to sleep. Ativan is also not taken by me, as it affects memory. The others have no such effect at all.
 
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My psychiatrist would have no way to prescribe Imidazenil. It is not in the medication list of any US medication. Furthermore, although I DO appreciate your help, but the search says that is does not cause the sedation, which I need for sleep.

Alprazolam works quickly, giving me 6-7 hours of sleep with NO side effects, like feeling groggy, when I wake up. It is very sort acting, unlike the only Benzodiazepine medication, Klonopin, which is used much,which has a half-life too long for me, and it simply takes too long to put me to sleep. Ativan is also not taken by me, as it affects memory. The others have no such effect at all.
You misread bc imidazenil isnt the only thing I discussed. And btw even if you need this meds for sleep, imidazenil will help with tolerance and avoiding the life threatening effects ts of withdrawal like seizures! It also doesnt need to be prescribed by a psychiatrist , I learned where to buy it safely and legally online from someone in a discord group that started with this forum. I also know how to obtain diazepam, known as valium, which I'm sure you would want. I know where to obtain etizolam , which is as short lasting as xanax so not as good as valium for sleep or tapering but definitely works as well as xanax. Even better maybe if anything. I know where to obtain clonazolam. I know where to obtain clonazepam, known as klonopin. And probably ativan and all the other things you mentioned. Etizolam btw is not like imidazenil and would absolutely help with sleep. But the reason I suggested imidazenil is it helps with benzo tolerance and withdrawals and seizures from that's which it sounds like you may be at risk for. Plus it never hurts to lower tolerance

Look, you may not appreciate my offer or help, but my point is jts preferable to have to do a little bit of extra work to buy a medication than to give up entirely.
 

Rvanson

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See this is part of the problem. I am telling you that there are ways to obtain medications, and it's not to abuse them. I dont abuse benzodiazepines, I was in a similar situation S you where I got cut off ... or actually in my case it was dumber, a doctor just continually forgetting to do prompt refills even though I would have physical withdrawals . And so I found other sources of benzodiazepines as well as looking for other ways to attenuate withdrawals... things that are found in the literature. And now it seems you're insinuating that this means abuse or I'm abusing benzodiazepines, when in fact I'm a patient who needs them and gets no high, like you, and I'm saying I can help you avoid withdrawals and get what you need, and that seems more important than apportioning blame.

There are always going to be addicts it's simple supply and demand. On the other hand the DEA and all three letter orgs besides the EPA maybe (environmental protection is good, but the CIA and FBI do evil things) is an evil organization that hurts not just addicts, who you dont need to have sympathy for but are often normal people with aproblem, but additionally they arrest docs who prescribe pain meds or controlled substances even if they did nothing wrong. Your doctor is probably scared bc of the DEA or something so if you want someone to blame look at them.

Also maybe addicts do snort benzodiazepines but they're not water soluble so that makes no sense... additionally , some people who are labeled "addicts" in government statistics aren't addicts... they may be someone who got cut off a benzo supply without 6tapering and needed to continue to take benzos to live... or they had adhd and couldn't function --most adhd people report trying adderall or something like that before eventually deciding to get formally evaluated and legally prescribed those meds. That's another problem with being mad at addicts is that it's a term thrown around very loosely by government agencies that are full of dumb cops who aren't doctors and have no medical degree or ability to determine if someone is indeed an "addict".

So , by your response, I'm still not sure if you would like help with avoiding withdrawal, or would rather just be angry at me or wallow in self pity. This disease sucks, doctors suck, etc etc but as far as I'm concerned we have to emotionally compartmentalize and keep moving.
I am not angry at you at all. Yeah doctors suck, but you can be imprisoned for buying controlled substances, so I obtain my medications legally. Until a decent anti-insomnia medication is invented, I will stick to my Benzo. The current "non-addictive" ones are useless, so until they come up with a better one I am NOT going to withdrawal.

Ive been down the road of completely not having a benzodiazepine before.Cut off cold turkey. It was very unpleasant to say the least. No I didn't have a seizure, but not being able to sleep was very tiring. Insomnia makes expert driving impossible after a few days.
 
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I am not angry at you at all. Yeah doctors suck, but you can be imprisoned for buying controlled substances, so I obtain my medications legal
it's a reasonable fear even if overblown. A) etizolam. clonazolam, are both legal and can be purchased on normal websites without using the darknet.

B) the darknet is an option but if you think it's too risky, there is c) purchasing in mexico. This could be technically legal actually, especially if you go to a doctor there that works with the farmacia yo generate scripts and business. And quickly just say what the problem is. They will write a script and you can take a certain percentage across the border.

But the only reason I brought up doing it illegally or grey area like etizolam., Is bc u said you're getting cut off and you're going to do [the thing that the TOS say we cant talk about] . If you really plan to do that, why would you care more about legal risk which is minor doing this the smart way, than making a drastic decision you cant undo? At that point what do you have to lose.
Until a decent anti-insomnia medication is invented, I will stick to my Benzo. The current "non-addictive" ones are useless, so until they come up with a better one I am NOT going to withdrawal.
Phenibut is an excellent medication for sleep. And provides better deep sleep and REM than benzos... it's not unpleasant like anti psychotics. You can get it online , NOT ON THE DARKNET ITS NOT ILLEGAL. Just google liftmode phenibut.

Insomnia can be hellish, but I do think there are drugs better than benzodiazepines for it. but to each his own. It should be allowed to take whatever you want. I dont see why you wouldn't5try somethi g legal like phenibut tho. Just dont mix it with benzos or be careful and take very low benzo dose when combining , as it's a powerful sedative.

I'm not stupid I know a lot about pharmacology and have had to biohack and figure my own way out if these situations as doctors rarely help.

Anyway, @Hip knows lots of good stuff for insomnia I'm sure.

But my other point about imidazenil, and this is the last thing I'll say. Is that helping lower benzo tolerance, which imidazenil does, obviously means you get more efficacy from your benzo dose without having to up the dose. I'm on oxycodone for pain but bc of tolerance it doesnt work as well for pain. If someone said I have a drug here and it lowers oxycodone tolerance but doesnt directly help pain I'd be ecstatic bc lowering tolerance helps the drug work better and there are few things that do that. But again--to each his own. And imidazenil is not scheduled as far as I know and should be totally legal. Like phenibut and etizolam .
 
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Cut off cold turkey. It was very unpleasant to say the least. No I didn't have a seizure, but not being able to sleep was very tiring.
You Could have a seizure the next time though. And all the things I mentioned , including the gabapentin or lyrica, which can be bought from clear net overseas pharmacies which @Hip has found that are reputable and not scams, and are never prosecuted, or the clonidine , could maybe help with both sleep and preventing seizures. So I dont see why not try that. It's not like buying more controlled meds on the darknet. Gabapentin and lyrica are not considered narcotics or drugs of abuse, and buying them on online pharmacies is easy and poses no legal risk. It's the same as buying allergy meds. Clonidine same thing. Worst case scenario seized by customs money lost but I've gotten about 20 packages go through and they're labelled medications by the pharmacy. Again it's yourchoice but I thought you were in danger of death or something. Obviously if you're fine and getting prescribed your meds and theres no problem dont take any unnecessary risk but I thought you were in a crisis bad enough the risks I suggested would be nothing in comparison. Obviously misread the situation.
 

keenly

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Cheney and levine regularly prescribe it for PEM. (Well, Cheney used to, when he was alive ). Levine still does. wouldn't argue about it being dependence forming , and maybe it doesnt work for you, but it's been known to help PEM , energy envelopes, sound sensitivity, and fatiguability , which are all related.

Seems to help whitney's PEM.

I would guess the mechanism is simple, anything that lowers brain and spinal glutamate could help PEM. Includes NMDA antagonists

Honestly, the reason this list is so long isnt bc everything on it works really well it's probably bc theres a bigger variance in what works for people than we can pin down without more rigorous study.
Cheney is no longer with us?