Staph vaccine to treat CFS??

[hvac14400]

I just used the 10 mg dosage for price comparison purposes. As far as I am aware, there are no studies or anecdotal reports of the use of Licopid to treat ME/CFS. It may potentially be of benefit, because it corrects the immune deficiency due to coxsackievirus B infection (ref: 1), and of course CVB is one of the main viruses linked to ME/CFS.

i am on 1mg twice a day now, for 10 days, then 20 days off and repeat this sh!t 2 times more, as was prescribed by my imunologist in the past.

Perhaps if you don't mind, would you consider emailing www.biomedservice.ru (their email is:
info@biomedservice.ru), and asking them why their instructions document contradicts Medgamal's instructions document..

it's not biomedservice's instruction - biomedservice is just a distributor as far as i can tell, so they just put medgamal's instruction on their website : )

It is possible that Medgamal updated their vaccine, and removed the mercury, and that www.biomedservice.ru have an older version of the instructions document.

and if you pay just a lil tiny bit more of attention, you will see, that in fact it is medgamal's instruction on their own site outdated, not on biomedservice's one!
see for yourself:
biomed

Инструкция по применению:
АНАТОКСИН СТАФИЛОКОККОВЫЙ ОЧИЩЕННЫЙ АДСОРБИРОВАННЫЙ
Регистрационный номер Р N000649/01 от 28.07.2008.

medgamal

УТВЕРЖДАЮ
Главный государственный сантиарный
врач Российской Федерации
__________________Г.Г. Онищенко
« 26 » июня 2007 г.

see? goddamnit! : D

It is possible that Medgamal updated their vaccine, and removed the mercury, and that www.biomedservice.ru have an older version of the instructions document.

there is NO single reference about mercury in ANY of instructions that i saw - where u got this crazy idea? : )

 

[Hip]

it's not biomedservice's instruction - biomedservice is just a distributor as far as i can tell, so they just put medgamal's instruction on their website

I know they are distributors of the Medgamal vaccine. That is why I suggested they may have an older version of Medgamal's vaccine instructions.

and if you pay just a lil tiny bit more of attention,

I hope you were more polite when you wrote to the technicians at Medgamal.

You will see, that in fact it is medgamal's instruction on their own site outdated, not on biomedservice's one!

I did in fact see both dates, but for the vaccine instructions document on the website of the distributors biomedservice.ru, we do not know what the date of 2008 refers to. It could for example be the date that biomedservice.ru were given the permission by Medgamal to distribute and sell the vaccine.

And if you download the pdf instructions document from the Medgamal website, and look at the creation date for the pdf document, it is 9 September 2013. So as a document, the Medgamal vaccine instructions is much newer.

there is NO single reference about mercury in ANY of instructions that i saw - where u got this crazy idea? : )

For your information, thimerosal (also spelt thiomersal), which translates to мертиолят in Russian, is the very well-known mercury compound, talked about all over the Internet, that until recently was used in the majority of vaccines as a preservative. Over the last decade, thimerosal has been removed from most vaccines, due to new rules and regulations regarding vaccine ingredients.

Due to these new regulations, Medgamal may well have also removed thimerosal from their vaccine.

That is probably why you see the thimerosal preservative mentioned in the (likely out-of-date) vaccine instructions document on the distributor biomedservice.ru website, whereas in the (likely most up-to-date) vaccine instructions document on the manufacturer Medgamal's website, it quite clearly states that there are no preservatives in the vaccine.

 

[hvac14400]

Over the last decade, thimerosal has been removed from most vaccines, due to new rules and regulations regarding vaccine ingredients.

http://www.lsgeotar.ru/pharma_tn/714.html

04.05.2010

1 доза (0,5 мл) содержит:

Анатоксин с консервантом: столбнячный анатоксин - 10 единиц связывания (ЕС); вспомогательные вещества: алюминия гидроксид (в пересчете на алюминий) - не более 0,55 мг; тиомерсал - от 42,5 до 57,5 мкг; формальдегид - не более 100 мкг.

Анатоксин без консерванта: столбнячный анатоксин - 10 единиц связывания (ЕС); вспомогательные вещества: алюминия гидроксид (в пересчете на алюминий) - не более 0,55 мг; формальдегид - не более 100 мкг.

so they go both ways, at these days, lol.

 

[Andey]

Anatoxin is working or not for CFS and this is all that matter. Some mcgs of present or absent preservatives in it is not an issue if it really works.
And last post you made - this text is not about staph anatoxin and its made by different company.

 

[hvac14400]

as for the subject - you're talkin to the wrong person - Hip is worried about it, not me.
and last post i made just to show, that despite any laws/regulations manufacturers can make both versions - with and without toxic stuff. so this is irrelevant to exact company.

 

[melihtas]

A friend of a friend of mine asked some pharmacies about liquid version of the vaccine in Kiev, Ukraine. Unfortunately, it is not available.

 

[hvac14400]

am going to buy this sh!t just in a couple of days, so i got a lil more tech info - surprisingly not from the manufacturer (they are quiet as corpse), but from one of their distributors.

@Hip
i think you will like this as much as you will hate it at the same time : )







so you personally got version with mercury in it, BUT! i've been told, that this version is stronger one, because of adsorbtion - like it stays in the body for longer time because of it. i can't confirm/disprove that right now from tech point of view, so i don't know which version to buy : )

 

[hvac14400]

hey - today is a lucky day!
my voice call to the manufacture just right now finally was succesfull - they confirmed that they got my e-mail and sheduled next conversation about it on monday 21.
and they confirmed what i have said about mercury and aluminium in previous post.
so stay tuned folks

p.s.
if anybody have any questions in context of this topic - i strongly reccomend write all of them down here till monday - it's your last chance i guess, at least through my involvement.

 

[Hip]

so you personally got version with mercury in it, BUT! i've been told, that this version is stronger one, because of adsorbtion - like it stays in the body for longer time because of it. i can't confirm/disprove that right now from tech point of view, so i don't know which version to buy : )

Thanks for posting those two documents. These two documents appear to be certificate of analyses for the Russian vaccine (a certificate of analysis is where a laboratory tests and analyses drugs or chemicals to ensure they comply to the set standards).

I printed these documents out, and translated them to English using the very useful Google Android app Translate, but I cannot see where it says that the adsorbed (адсорбированный) vaccine contains mercury, in the form of thimerosal (мертиолят).

The adsorbed vaccine contains aluminum hydroxide (алюминия гидрокпида), but this is to be expected, because aluminum hydroxide is used as the substrate for the adsorption.

But there is no sign of mercury in either version of the vaccine, according to those two documents.

my voice call to the manufacture just right now finally was succesfull - they confirmed that they got my e-mail and sheduled next conversation about it on monday 21.

Good work @hvac14400. I hope they provide the answers.

The most important information to obtain is question (3), which is:

(3) Out of the following five Staphylococcus toxins, which of these are present as toxoids in your Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine:

Alpha toxin (альфа токсин)
Enterotoxin A (энтеротоксина A)
Enterotoxin B (энтеротоксина B)
Enterotoxin C (энтеротоксина C)
Toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 (синдром токсического шока токсин 1)

This is important information that one of the medical professionals in Sweden asked me for. The reason it is important is because if the Russian vaccine does not contain the same five toxoids (listed above) that were in the original Swiss Staphypan vaccine, then it is possible the Russian vaccine may not work as an ME/CFS treatment.

The researchers in Sweden were not able to determine which of these toxoids is having the beneficial effect for ME/CFS.

 

[Hip]

I took my fourth (0.4 ml) dose of the Russian vaccine yesterday. The local reaction on my skin is again a red patch of around 4 to 5 cm in diameter, so as this is less than 6 cm, it should be fine to continue to the next dose level for next week.

I am now finding that after each injection, for 2 or 3 days following, I have a stuffy nose and feeling of congestion in the nose, as if I was coming down with a mild cold. This clears up after around 3 days. However, I don't have any other symptoms of a cold, apart from this feeling of congestion in the nose, and also the mildly increased fatigue.


@Helen mentioned to me that some of the ME/CFS patients in Sweden who took the original Staphypan vaccine experienced some influenza-like symptoms in the first few weeks. So my feelings of catching a very mild cold seem consistent with this.

@Helen also said that after beginning to take Staphypan, some ME/CFS patients had to wait two for months before they saw a positive effect. So for anyone considering taking this vaccine, you would want to take it for at least two months to test to see if you are a responder to the vaccine or not.

 

[hvac14400]

@Hip

These two documents appear to be certificate of analyses for the Russian vaccine (a certificate of analysis is where a laboratory tests and analyses drugs or chemicals to ensure they comply to the set standards).

yes, they are.

I printed these documents out, and translated them to English using the very useful Google Android app Translate, but I cannot see where it says that the adsorbed (адсорбированный) vaccine contains mercury, in the form of thimerosal (мертиолят).

But there is no sign of mercury in either version of the vaccine, according to those two documents.

are you kidding me? forget about your phone - use your eyes (or photoshop - make the picture more darker/contrast if you need to) and just look for the word "мертиолят", it's not so hard:



it's in line number 18, lol?

and look for the dates up there - this is what i was talking to you earlier - medgamal's instruction is just BS - too old and a wrong one - they put the same instruction (not adsorbed) for both versions. this one right here is from the end of 2014 - that same batch i can buy from next week.
so they manufacturing 2 version in 2015 - with and without mercury, despite any regulations you have talked about.

 

[Hip]

are you kidding me? forget about your phone - use your eyes (or photoshop - make the picture more darker/contrast if you need to) and just look for the word "мертиолят", it's not so hard:

OK, now I see it! Thanks. I am slowly starting to get more familiar with the Russian alphabet.

So in the adsorbed Russian vaccine, there is 80 to 120 micrograms of thimerosal per 1 ml ampoule of vaccine.

That is a relatively high amount, as when thimerosal was included in childhood vaccine immunizations, each dose of vaccine would contain around 25 micrograms of thimerosal. Although children would receive multiple vaccinations, so the cumulative dose of thimerosal would be higher (levels of thimerosal in old childhood vaccines given here).

However, if the non-adsorbed vaccine has no mercury, then that is the best option for people worried about mercury.

they put the same instruction (not adsorbed) for both versions.

Yes I noticed that. You might ask Medgamal to fix their website, or at least to send you the adsorbed vaccine instructions.

 

[hvac14400]

So in the adsorbed Russian vaccine, there is 80 to 120 micrograms of thimerosal per 1 ml ampoule of vaccine.
That is a relatively high amount, as when thimerosal was included in childhood vaccine immunizations, each dose of vaccine would contain around 25 micrograms of thimerosal.

one ampoule/ml contains 2 doses for vaccination purposes, so it's probably around 90/2=45mcg per shot.
but when i called them today, they said it's a "trace amounts" nobody would worried about anyway.

Although children would receive multiple vaccinations, so the cumulative dose of thimerosal would be higher (levels of thimerosal in old childhood vaccines given here).

children are much more sensitive to mercury than adults, so for them it may be a problem.

However, if the non-adsorbed vaccine has no mercury, then that is the best option for people worried about mercury.

i wonder how's both versions has the same shelf life? will ask about that on monday.

You might ask Medgamal to fix their website, or at least to send you the adsorbed vaccine instructions.

they know about this error but they emailed me the same non adsorbed version instruction when i inquired right one - just scanned from the paper version, go figure! lol.

 

[Hip]

A very interesting observation by Prof Gottfries and his team:

Those without nickel allergy, and also non-smokers, were much more like to respond to Staphypan: in a study, 39% of the non-allergic non-smokers responded to Staphypan; but only 6% of the nickel allergic smokers responded. See the study here:

Nickel Allergy Is Found in a Majority of Women with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Muscle Pain – And May Be Triggered by Cigarette Smoke and Dietary Nickel Intake

The study also mentions case reports of nickel-allergic patients who apparently improved after cessation of cigarette smoking and reducing their dietary nickel intake (low nickel diet info here).

 

[Hip]

@hvac14400
When you speak to Medgamal on Monday, if possible, in addition to the toxoids I listed above, could you also ask if the following two ingredients are present in Medgamal's vaccine:

• Clumping factor (фактор слипания)
• Fibrinogen-binding protein (фибриногена-связывающий белок)

These two factors come from Staphylococcus bacteria, and were found in the Staphypan vaccine. They may have immunological effects, and thus could potentially play a role in the way Staphypan ameliorates ME/CFS.

The Gottfries et al study which analyzed the ingredients of the Staphypan vaccine is in this post.

 

[Arvan]

Hi, i am in the process of organising shipping for the NORMAL Staph vaccine, but reading this thread, it would seem like a good idea to hold back until more information comes through to best ascertain whether NORMAL or ABSORBED is preferred.
Thanks for your efforts hvac 14400, much appreciated.

 

[Hutan]

@Hip, that paper about the incidence of nickel allergy in women with CFS is indeed interesting.

Maybe it deserves its own thread if it doesn't have it already?

I can remember having a nickel allergy (reaction to jeans buttons) when I was 10 and had ME/CFS for the first time (for a year). I recovered but have ME/CFS again from age 47 (3 years so far). All throughout this time I have had to be careful with the earrings and watches I wear or I have a reaction to the metal. I have never been a smoker.

Edit to add - Oh, and my migraines seem to be triggered by chocolate (which is reportedly high in nickel).

 

[hvac14400]

@Hip

The study also mentions case reports of nickel-allergic patients who apparently improved after cessation of cigarette smoking and reducing their dietary nickel intake (low nickel diet info here).

i eat Almonds & Buckwheat (High content) and Eggs (Medium content) everyday in high amounts and i can't just drop that, sorry

When you speak to Medgamal on Monday, if possible, in addition to the toxoids I listed above, could you also ask if the following two ingredients are present in Medgamal's vaccine:

• Clumping factor (фактор слипания)
• Fibrinogen-binding protein (фибриногена-связывающий белок)

These two factors come from Staphylococcus bacteria, and were found in the Staphypan vaccine. They may have immunological effects, and thus could potentially play a role in the way Staphypan ameliorates ME/CFS.

but there is no clumping factor here - https://sci-hub.io/10.1007/s10096-003-1062-8
look for Table 2.


@Arvan

reading this thread, it would seem like a good idea to hold back until more information comes through to best ascertain whether NORMAL or ABSORBED is preferred.

yea - we don't know if there is any need for "stronger" version in our case whatsoever - we are not trying to cure staph, right? and we certainly don't want any excessive and unnecessary loading of our immune system.

 

[Hip]

but there is no clumping factor here - https://sci-hub.io/10.1007/s10096-003-1062-8
look for Table 2.

Thanks for checking this in the original paper. I think you may be right.

I was a bit confused by Table 2, because on page 3 of same paper (left side column) the authors say:

Analysis of the Vaccine Preparation

An analysis of SB was carried out to identify Staphylococcus aureus and Staphylococcus epidermidis antigens. Epitopes of known antigens were identified using immunoblot analysis.

The following Staphylococcus aureus antigens were identified: alpha-toxin, lipase, clumping factor, fibrinogen-binding protein, cell-wall components, entire cell walls, enterotoxin A, enterotoxin B, enterotoxin C, and toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 (TSST-1).

Staphylococcus epidermidis antigens identified included entire cell walls and fibrinogen-binding protein. The vaccine was also investigated for possible haemolytic activity with regard to active alpha-, beta-, gamma- and delta-toxins.

The word "identified" is a bit ambiguous (it usually means "found"). Perhaps it would have been better say "we tested for the presence of the following Staphylococcus aureus antigens..." if that is what the authors meant.

 

[hvac14400]

I was a bit confused by Table 2, because on page 3 of same paper (left side column) the authors say:

The following Staphylococcus aureus antigens were identified: alphatoxin, lipase, clumping factor, fibrinogen-binding protein, cell-wall components, entire cell walls, enterotoxin A, enterotoxin B, enterotoxin C, and toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 (TSST-1) [27].

and there is no "enterotoxin C" in table 2 too - i don't know what to think - am not a bacteriologist : )