Staph vaccine to treat CFS??

[hvac14400]

Arvan said: ↑
Also Staphypan being discontinued in 2005, if, like the Russian vaccine it has a shelf life of 2 years or similar it is difficult to understand how Professor Goffries could be still using successfully his life's supply. Unless shelf life and real efficacy don't line up.

I was also thinking that. It is possible that Professor Gottfries froze the Staphylococcus vaccines. Some proteins or peptides in solution can be frozen without incurring too much damage.

this is from instructions on this drug:

"Транспортирование. В соответствии с СП 3.3.2.1248-03 при температуре от 2 до 8 °С. Замораживание не допускается.

Условия хранения. В соответствии с СП 3.3.2. 1248-03 при температуре от 2 до 8 °С в сухом, защищенном от света месте. Замораживание не допускается."

so you can't freeze it. you can freeze dry compounds, like human growth hormone you've used before, they called "лиофилизаты" if i remember correctly, tho i don't know how much (if any) it will extend its shelf life.

also (contrary to what you've thought) it's written there, that it contains preservative:

"В 1,0 мл препарата содержится 10 ЕС (2 дозы) стафилококкового анатоксина, алюминий (сорбент) - от 0,9 до 1,3 мг, мертиолят (консервант) - от 80 до 120 мкг."

http://www.biomedservice.ru/price/goods/1/8337

 

[Hip]

so haven't you used licopid yet?

I did try Amixin (tilorone) 0.125 mg daily for 9 days many years ago, without seeing any effects. One study found that tilorone is "neither safe nor effective". Tilorone boosts interferon in animals, but does not in humans.

Licopid I would like to try, it can apparent suppress autoimmune reactions, but it is very expensive ($100 for 10 tablets). Licopid is available in the international Russian pharmacies here and here. Do you know any ME/CFS patients in Russia who benefitted from Licopid?

coz i hate needles

For many years I was apprehensive about trying ME/CFS medications that require injection. But then a few years ago, after I finally persuaded myself to try the antiviral drug Nexavir (which requires an easy subcutaneous injection), I quickly broke through the psychological barrier (and the learning-curve of buying the right needles and hypodermic syringes, good sterile practices, etc).

@Sushi on this forum was also very helpful in explaining to me the process of performing subcutaneous injections of Nexavir.

Now subcutaneous injection does not concern me at all. In fact, I almost enjoy doing it.

Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine requires subcutaneous injection. Subcutaneous injection is easier to do than intramuscular or intravenous injections, and is less invasive, as the injection only goes into the outer layer of body fat, just under your skin; the needle does not enter into any muscles or veins.

I found this introductory document useful for learning how to do subcutaneous injections, and learning where on the body subcutaneous injections can be performed. I use very thin 30 gauge needles (0.3 mm outer diameter). In the UK, I buy my needles and syringes here and here.

 

[Hip]

Here is a general update on my progress taking the Russian Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine (using the introductory dosing protocol detailed in this earlier post):


For the first week starting the vaccine protocol (beginning with a 0.1 ml vaccine dose), I was slightly more tired than usual, although with a mildly better mood than normal.

As I started the second week, the increased tiredness eased off initially, especially in the days just after my second (0.2 ml) injection; but then the increased tiredness returned towards the end of the second week.

I am now 4 days into the third week of the protocol, having taken my third (0.3 ml) injection 4 days ago, and I am still feeling a little more tired than usual, although still with a slightly elevated mood.

Not much sign yet of any improvements in ME/CFS symptoms. The brain fog level remains the same.

I have been informed that in the first weeks of the protocol, patients sometimes feel very slightly worse; but then the improvements in ME/CFS symptoms appear from around the two week point onwards, in those who respond to the vaccine.

I should point out that the increased tiredness I feel is only minor, and I do now and then get weeks of slightly increased tiredness like this anyway.



Interestingly, after my third 0.3 ml injection 4 days ago, the local reaction at the site of the injection was less extensive in size than the reaction caused by my earlier 0.2 ml injection.

Local reaction on my belly the day after the 0.3 ml injection
The red area is about 4 cm in diameter

 

[hvac14400]

I did try Amixin (tilorone) 0.125 mg daily for 9 days many years ago, without seeing any effects.

i was prescribed one 0.125 table per WEEK, for 6 weeks.

Licopid I would like to try, it can apparent suppress autoimmune reactions, but it is very expensive ($100 for 10 tablets).

WHAT?
it costs about 4$ for 10 tabs 1mg and 23$ for 10 tabs 10mg.
http://nsk.vapteke.ru/search?s=ликопид

and i don't know any ME/CFS "patients" here at all, except from myself, lol.

Now subcutaneous injection does not concern me at all. In fact, I almost enjoy doing it.

judging by recent pictures your bf% is around 30 or even more, and amma one hell of a skinny guy, currently on a cut, with a goal to bring the bf% to about 10. am around 15% already, with thin skin and paradoxically low pain threshold.
so thanx - i don't wanna pierce myself yet, maybe after bulking back to 20% bf : D

btw - can you ask the dr. Gottfries about his source of the vaccine throughout all those past years? i don't believe in refrigerating for a decade or so, lol.

 

[hvac14400]

i can try to call manufacturer of this russian vaccine by voice and ask them about its composition, like all this sh!t

Lipase
Alpha toxin
Enterotoxin A
Enterotoxin B
Enterotoxin C
Toxic shock syndrome toxin 1
Cell wall antigens

but am very sceptical that they would talk on a such low tech level with nobody, i.e. with me : )
maybe it's "know-how" stuff, patented etc.

but maybe if you provide some more detailed information about it i'll be able to convince them, with a lil bit of luck, who knows, miracles happens sometimes, lol.

 

[Hip]

i can try to call manufacturer of this russian vaccine by voice

Thanks very much for your offer. I fact through a Russian-speaking member of this forum (@Andey) we contacted the manufacturer once before. I have recently asked Andrey if he would not mind contacting them again. I have a few more questions to ask them.

can you ask the dr. Gottfries about his source of the vaccine throughout all those past years? i don't believe in refrigerating for a decade or so,

Prof Gottfries, as well as other ME/CFS patients in Sweden who were using the Swiss Staphypan vaccine, stockpiled in the refrigerator a supply when the vaccine was discontinued. Even after 10 years, it is still working fine.

 

[Hip]

Russian Pharmacy Rupharma.com Will Ship The Russian Vaccine Internationally

Great news: my acquaintance Eduard in Sweden (not on this forum) managed to find an online international Russian pharmacy willing to obtain and ship the Russian Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine internationally!

This pharmacy is rupharma.com, who can be contacted via this page of their website. They are based in Moscow, but also provide a service where they ship items from Lithuania, which being in the European Union, makes it easier to avoid customs inspection and possible seizure. This pharmacy said even for those in Sweden, there is a chance that the shipment will get through customs.

They have confirmed that they can supply the correct version of the Russian vaccine, namely: Анатоксин стафилококковый очищенный жидкий (Staphylococcal anatoxin purified liquid). However, if you order from this pharmacy, I suggest that you make it clear that you want this particular version of the vaccine.

In your message to them, you can tell the pharmacy something like this: "Note that there are two version of this vaccine. I need the version called Анатоксин стафилококковый очищенный жидкий. The other version called Анатоксин стафилококковый очищенный адсорбированный is incorrect. Thank you very much."


For one box of 10 x 1 ml ampoules of this vaccine, they charge €41.50 ($46), plus €15 ($17) for international shipping (of up to 4 boxes of vaccine) from Lithuania.

They ship in A4 sized plain, discreet padded envelopes, which are sent by airmail. Total shipping time is 10 to 20 days.

Unfortunately this pharmacy does not at the moment accept credit cards, but they do accept bitcoin, Western Union, Azimo and MoneyGram.

 

[panckage]

. Total shipping time is 10 to 20 days.

Is it OK to go that long without refrigeration?

.
but they do accept bitcoin

I may have a reason to finally cash in my bit coins haha

 

[Hip]

Is it OK to go that long without refrigeration?

It's not really clear. I asked Prof Gottfries about this, and he seemed to think that because his ampoules of Staphypan® Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine are still fine even after ten years (in his fridge), the active ingredient(s) must be fairly robust, and so should probably be OK if exposed to a few weeks at room temperature.

And in this earlier post, you see that a study found a 2 week exposure to room temperature did not affect the shelf life of an influenza vaccine.


The alternative to using this pharmacy is using my contact in the Ukraine, as he is able to ship via fast 2-day DHL courier to countries like the US, UK and Australia. In this case the cost is $45 per box, plus around $80 to $100 for shipping and other costs.

 

[hvac14400]

we contacted the manufacturer once before
I have a few more questions to ask them.

ok, just pm me with them.

 

[Helen]

ME/CFS patients in Sweden who were using the Swiss Staphypan vaccine, stockpiled in the refrigerator a supply when the vaccine was discontinued. Even after 10 years, it is still working fine.

Maybe because it contains the preservative thiomersal=mercury...

 

[hvac14400]

@Hip

called to the manufacturer - they got a problem with "right" version - expired certificate, so they wouldn't be able to sell it till the summer at minimum.
and if you wanna compare compositions, i need as much tech info as you can get, then i'll email it to their tech ppl.

 

[hvac14400]

@Hip

100 buck, huh?



more like 3.3$ to me

 

[Hip]

WHAT?
it costs about 4$ for 10 tabs 1mg and 23$ for 10 tabs 10mg.
http://nsk.vapteke.ru/search?s=ликопид

If Licopid is $23 for 10 x 10 mg in Russia, it is not clear why these pharmacies that sell Russian medical products internationally are charging so much.

International Russian pharmacies will put a large markup on the price (eg, double the price), but it seems that the international Russian pharmacies here and here are charging 5 times the price for Licopid.

The international Russian pharmacies I know are:
http://pharmashipping.net
http://www.extrapharmacy.ru
http://www.psypharm.com
http://medicinesdelivery.com
http://rupharma.com

By the way your above weblink does not respond.

called to the manufacturer - they got a problem with "right" version - expired certificate, so they wouldn't be able to sell it till the summer at minimum.

That's useful to know. Although I guess pharmacies may still have a stock of the right version of the vaccine.

called to the manufacturer - they got a problem with "right" version - expired certificate, so they wouldn't be able to sell it till the summer at minimum.
and if you wanna compare compositions, i need as much tech info as you can get, then i'll email it to their tech ppl.

Thanks @hvac14400.

Here are the questions I would like to ask the Medgamal technicians:

(1) The Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine instructions document says the vaccine "does not contain any preservatives or antibiotics". Can you confirm that this means there is no mercury in the vaccine?

(2) Does the vaccine contain an adjuvant (адъювант) such as aluminum hydroxide (гидроксид алюминия)?

(3) Out of the following five Staphylococcus toxins, which of these are present as toxoids in your Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine:

Alpha toxin (альфа токсин)
Enterotoxin A (энтеротоксина A)
Enterotoxin B (энтеротоксина B)
Enterotoxin C (энтеротоксина C)
Toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 (синдром токсического шока токсин 1)

I am particularly interested to know if enterotoxin B is in the vaccine.

(4) How long can the vaccine be kept out of refrigeration? Is it safe to have the vaccine at room temperature for one or two weeks during shipping (mailing) of the vaccine?

 

[panckage]

(4) How long can the vaccine be kept out of refrigeration? Is it safe to have the vaccine at room temperature for one or two weeks during shipping (mailing) of the vaccine?

Since you mentioned the the one place takes 10-20 days for delivery we may want to put the upper bound at 4 weeks for this question

 

[melihtas]

@Hip
called to the manufacturer - they got a problem with "right" version - expired certificate, so they wouldn't be able to sell it till the summer at minimum.

Hi @hvac14400
Is this certificate problem prevents them selling the vaccine only in Russia or everywhere?
A travel agency sent me a campaign email today including a 139$ return flight ticket to Ukraine. I am quite tempted to go some vaccine shopping if it is available there.

 

[hvac14400]

If Licopid is $23 for 10 x 10 mg in Russia, it is not clear why these pharmacies that sell Russian medical products internationally are charging so much.

a free market price model much? lol.
and why are you interested in 10mg dosage - why not 1mg? is there any protocol specific to cfs treatment?

By the way your above weblink does not respond.

it works perfectly for me - try to open just web site itself, without search string for example, maybe your computer doesn't insert russian characters correctly.
like - http://vapteke.ru
then search from there. and this is just one example - there is a billion of russian online stores with prices like that, for residents at least.

That's useful to know. Although I guess pharmacies may still have a stock of the right version of the vaccine.

it doesn't matter i think, if according to the law you can't sell such drugs - all parties must respect the law - manufacturers, distributors, etc.

 

[hvac14400]

Hi @hvac14400
Is this certificate problem prevents them selling the vaccine only in Russia or everywhere?
A travel agency sent me a campaign email today including a 139$ return flight ticket to Ukraine. I am quite tempted to go some vaccine shopping if it is available there.

they don't sell anything - they manufacturers, so distribution is a separate story they don't have full control of.
but as Hip said above, if some third party have a stock of the right version of the vaccine you can possibly buy it from them, depending on the local law, or loyality of this third party to the law.
so for example i personally can't get it here from official sources, but i don't know anything about your sources.

 

[Hip]

and why are you interested in 10mg dosage - why not 1mg? is there any protocol specific to cfs treatment?

I just used the 10 mg dosage for price comparison purposes. As far as I am aware, there are no studies or anecdotal reports of the use of Licopid to treat ME/CFS. It may potentially be of benefit, because it corrects the immune deficiency due to coxsackievirus B infection (ref: 1), and of course CVB is one of the main viruses linked to ME/CFS.

 

[Hip]

also (contrary to what you've thought) it's written there, that it contains preservative:

"В 1,0 мл препарата содержится 10 ЕС (2 дозы) стафилококкового анатоксина, алюминий (сорбент) - от 0,9 до 1,3 мг, мертиолят (консервант) - от 80 до 120 мкг."

http://www.biomedservice.ru/price/goods/1/8337

The vaccine instructions document from the www.biomedservice.ru website that you quoted seems to be in contradiction to Medgamal's vaccine instructions document on the Medgamal website.

In Medgamal's vaccine instructions document, it says:

Препарат не содержит консервантов и антибиотиков
= the product does not contain any preservatives or antibiotics.


Perhaps if you don't mind, would you consider emailing www.biomedservice.ru (their email is:
info@biomedservice.ru), and asking them why their instructions document contradicts Medgamal's instructions document.

It is possible that Medgamal updated their vaccine, and removed the mercury, and that www.biomedservice.ru have an older version of the instructions document.