Roadblocks to Successful Methylation Treatment

[caledonia]

I did some googling to get the latest research. Near as I can tell, they both would soak up methyl groups, but the niacin (nicotinic acid) is better at it. It's confusing because they're known by several similar sounding names.
niacin = nicotinic acid
niacinamide = nitocinamide
There is a third form called nicotinamide riboside, but it seems like not as much is known about that one.

There have been a few cases of people taking excess niacin for a long time and shutting down their livers. But in general, you're always methylating to some extent or you would be dead.

 

[Katy131]

I did some googling to get the latest research. Near as I can tell, they both would soak up methyl groups, but the niacin (nicotinic acid) is better at it. It's confusing because they're known by several similar sounding names.
niacin = nicotinic acid
niacinamide = nitocinamide
There is a third form called nicotinamide riboside, but it seems like not as much is known about that one.

There have been a few cases of people taking excess niacin for a long time and shutting down their livers. But in general, you're always methylating to some extent or you would be dead.

Thank you! I meant though, if you take niacin to stop methylation when you've been working on improving it for months, do you lose all that improvement or just calm it down a bit?

 

[caledonia]

Speaking from personal experience, it calms down the icky revved up feeling. I never had improvements to speak of (from methylation supps).

I suppose if you were having honeymoon type improvements, then got into overmethylation, then took niacin to calm it down, you could lose the honeymoon improvements, as it would bring you back to your baseline.

The trick is to find a balance of an amount of B12 and folate you could take without going into overmethylation.

Also note that if you have mercury issues, that can cause methylation issues. So you can improve methylation by removing mercury. This is good to know if you find you can't tolerate methylation supps.

 

[Katy131]

The trick is to find a balance of an amount of B12 and folate you could take without going into overmethylation

My reason for wanting to reduce methylation is the inordinate amount of Potassium I need to take, and then Magnesium to balance. I almost wish I'd never started. I was using high Potassium juices to supplement the Potassium tablets but I was beginning to gain weight so I cut back on the juices ... And then of course the Potassium wasn't sufficient and I was getting low Potassium crises with palpitations and sweating which are horrible. I'm still trying to find the right balance but I'm taking 3,400 mg potassium a day right now and it's still not quite enough! Taking 7 Potassium tabs+ with every meal and 1000mg electrolyte powder at night and still not settled feels just excessive. Not to mention the cost! Like you I haven't really noticed any major improvements from methylating better - well not enough to make it worth all this. (Why do you do it if you have never experienced improvements?)

I'm seeing my doctor next week and I'm going to discuss how/whether to cut down on the B12 fortified salt in using. I hope if I do that I can find a better balance.

 

[caledonia]

I went through a period of several years needing high potassium supplementation similar to you. About 3000mg per day of Now brand potassium gluconate powder worked for me. And also high mag supplementation, which I still need. That's also in the 3000mg range of mag malate with additional transdermal mag needed (aka epsom salt foot bath in the evening).

 

[yellowspain]

I can't restart my methylation cycle. How do I know what the limiting factor is?

 

[caledonia]

I can't restart my methylation cycle. How do I know what the limiting factor is?

I don't quite understand your question. You're already methylating or you would be dead.
If you mean something like your methylation is impaired, there are two ways it can be impaired.

One is vitamin deficiencies. The other is mercury and other toxic metals.

After a good try with methylation protocols and no luck, I looked at toxic metals. I found I do have several of them including mercury, arsenic, and lead. I've been working on chelating them out with the Andy Cutler frequent dose chelation protocol, and that's been the most helpful thing for me so far.

 

[yellowspain]

I don't quite understand your question. You're already methylating or you would be dead.
If you mean something like your methylation is impaired, there are two ways it can be impaired.

One is vitamin deficiencies. The other is mercury and other toxic metals.

After a good try with methylation protocols and no luck, I looked at toxic metals. I found I do have several of them including mercury, arsenic, and lead. I've been working on chelating them out with the Andy Cutler frequent dose chelation protocol, and that's been the most helpful thing for me so far.

My cycle is not working well and I can't restart it. I managed it at first by taking vitamin b9 and b12, until it stopped working. My homocysteine had gone down, but it's going up again. I have no problems with toxins, mold, heavy metals... I think that by restarting the cycle, I have caused some induced deficiency and I can't figure out what nutrient or vitamin it was.

 

[stridor]

Excellent. A lot of this applies to my experiences. The one thing I would add from personal experience is that adding B12 crashed my B2 levels twice. The first time I didn't know what was happening since B2 was in my vitamins. My tongue swelled and split....it was as nasty as it sounds. I thought that it was a sign that I didn't need B12.
The second time, I figured it out because I got the classic cracks at the corners of my mouth rash on my face and privates, plus severely bloodshot eyes. Classic.
I took B2 until my urine turned "vit B chartreuse" = 18x100 mg and the next day it was 16 x 100 mg. I am still on B2 due to malabsorption. Ferritin also dropped to 9 which is another B2 thing. I'm remain on iron as well.

 

[yellowspain]

Excellent. A lot of this applies to my experiences. The one thing I would add from personal experience is that adding B12 crashed my B2 levels twice. The first time I didn't know what was happening since B2 was in my vitamins. My tongue swelled and split....it was as nasty as it sounds. I thought that it was a sign that I didn't need B12.
The second time, I figured it out because I got the classic cracks at the corners of my mouth rash on my face and privates, plus severely bloodshot eyes. Classic.
I took B2 until my urine turned "vit B chartreuse" = 18x100 mg and the next day it was 16 x 100 mg. I am still on B2 due to malabsorption. Ferritin also dropped to 9 which is another B2 thing. I'm remain on iron as well.

Thank you so much. The first time, did you have a blood test to verify the deficiency? In my case, my iron levels are fine, I have had all my vitamins tested, but I don't know if I will be lucky. In my case my TSH levels have altered for the first time in my life, I have seen that vitamin B2 may be involved in this as well.

My problem with deficiencies is that they "do not warn", for example I have had a diagnosed b9 deficiency and I have not had any dermatological symptoms.

 

[caledonia]

Here are two links from my signature links on methylation. They are summaries of the Freddd protocol (which I assume is the protocol you're trying).

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/blog-articles/a-guide-to-freddds-protocol.1616/

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/blog-articles/my-understanding-of-freddds-protocol.1695/

 

[yellowspain]

Here are two links from my signature links on methylation. They are summaries of the Freddd protocol (which I assume is the protocol you're trying).

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/blog-articles/a-guide-to-freddds-protocol.1616/

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/blog-articles/my-understanding-of-freddds-protocol.1695/

I've just read the documents, thanks.