Roadblocks to Successful Methylation Treatment

[sadie123]

@kimomile
I also have the COMT and MAO and VDR taq +/+. Can you tell me what your ND has you doing to treat these in order to tolerate the methyls.
Thanks

 

[Victronix]

Just to clarify -- it's not B-complex vitamins by themselves that could lead to potassium deficiency, but an interaction with mfolate, correct? I was taking B complex vitamins for years, of various types, mostly B-Right, with 2 - 5000 b-12 per day before mfolate and never had such extreme potassium needs until I started taking methylfolate. It was the B-complex that greatly improved my anxiety after I started taking B-12, which is why I took it. And at that time, I was only taking about 1000 mg of B-12 but still had intense symptoms because I had a strong deficiency.

 

[caledonia]

Just to clarify -- it's not B-complex vitamins by themselves that could lead to potassium deficiency, but an interaction with mfolate, correct? I was taking B complex vitamins for years, of various types, mostly B-Right, with 2 - 5000 b-12 per day before mfolate and never had such extreme potassium needs until I started taking methylfolate. It was the B-complex that greatly improved my anxiety after I started taking B-12, which is why I took it. And at that time, I was only taking about 1000 mg of B-12 but still had intense symptoms because I had a strong deficiency.

Yes, active sublingual or injection B12 + methylfolate creates methylation, which creates cell rebuilding (healing), which increases the need for potassium.

 

[kimomile]

@kimomile
I also have the COMT and MAO and VDR taq +/+. Can you tell me what your ND has you doing to treat these in order to tolerate the methyls.
Thanks

@sadie123
I have to be honest, I am struggling tremendously. She put me on P5P, Magnesium, Molybdenum and R5P. I never got to the R5P because the Moly gave me so much trouble. She was then going to put me on Niacin and something else that I can't remember. She told me the other day that my SNP's were bad! Yay! That was reassuring. She is just learning and I had so much hope, but I don't think she gets it. Don't know what to do.

I am trying to heal from Lyme and Chlamydia Pneumonia and just can't handle the detox of toxins.

 

[sadie123]

@kimomile
Sorry to hear that you are doing that well. I would try to find someone who knows this stuff. I am in the process of looking for someone who understands this and knows how to treat it. Hope things get better for you.

 

[Adlyfrost]

@caledonia : This is AMAZING!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!! This document gave me an exhaustive amount of resources. I really appreciate all the work and research! And your experiences with different things you have tried.

Congratulations on getting through all you had to go through to put something like that together. I hope things will be smooth sailing for you from here on!

FYI: Unfortunately the physician link is broken on your document. Do you know of another good find-a-doc site?

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia : This is AMAZING!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!! This document gave me an exhaustive amount of resources. I really appreciate all the work and research! And your experiences with different things you have tried.

Congratulations on getting through all you had to go through to put something like that together. I hope things will be smooth sailing for you from here on!

FYI: Unfortunately the physician link is broken on your document. Do you know of another good find-a-doc site?

Thanks for the heads up. The link is in my signature below.

 

[nomad]

What will be the signs of a potassium deficiency ? Muscle cramping/tension by any chance ? In which case pottasium dosage ?

 

[caledonia]

What will be the signs of a potassium deficiency ? Muscle cramping/tension by any chance ? In which case pottasium dosage ?

That sounds like it could either magnesium or potassium or both. Those two work together and have to be in balance. Of course, everyone is going to be different in what they require.

As an example, I'm taking those and have had different balances at different times. At one time my mag was as high as 1800mg. I'm currently taking 525mg of mag and 3105mg of potassium. These are divided into four doses, which I take through out the day for better absorption.

This is how my doc told me to work out what I needed and it worked for me - pick one to start with, and gradually increase the dose. Pay attention to how you feel. The mag especially can cause diarrhea, so if that starts happening, back off a bit. For potassium, you should notice pretty quick relief in symptoms, but if you take too much, you'll start to feel strange. So there's a "sweet spot" for each one.

You can also try using self muscle testing, but since it requires good hydration and electrolyte balance, it's difficult to use unless your electrolytes are somewhere in the ballpark of where they need to be.

 

[nomad]

Thanks @caledonia I take magnesium transdermally mostly so hard to measure dose. I find oral magnesium doesn't absorb so well.

Do you take the potassium daily ? Also, which is better: Potassium Gluconate or Potassium Chloride ?

Thanks

 

[caledonia]

Thanks @caledonia I take magnesium transdermally mostly so hard to measure dose. I find oral magnesium doesn't absorb so well.

Do you take the potassium daily ? Also, which is better: Potassium Gluconate or Potassium Chloride ?

Thanks

Yes, daily and often (four times a day). I used Now brand potassium gluconate powder dissolved in water and drunk. I have my mag added into that - Vinco's magnesium glycinate. I find mixing them in water and drinking them works really well for absorption.

 

[JaimeS]

@caledonia - these documents are awesome (this is the second I've read this evening).

I wanted to let you know about some broken links:

Both the heartfixer.com and the livingnetwork.co.ca links in the CBS section no longer work.

-J

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia - these documents are awesome (this is the second I've read this evening).

I wanted to let you know about some broken links:

Both the heartfixer.com and the livingnetwork.co.ca links in the CBS section no longer work.

-J

Thanks for the heads up. I checked them and tried to fix them, but the same error occurs. They work in the original Word document, but an error happens when the document is converted to pdf. You can always copy and paste the link in the browser.

 

[JaimeS]

Thanks @caledonia. I'll give that a try.

-Jaime

 

[pinkpapaya]

Yes, active sublingual or injection B12 + methylfolate creates methylation, which creates cell rebuilding (healing), which increases the need for potassium.

I have a question!

In the document, you say to use slow release niacin. Does it have to be slow release, or will normal work?

I'm recovering from taking b12 for ten days. It's been 2 weeks since I stopped, and I'm still having insomnia, anxiety, brain fog, etc. I was prescribed Ativan last week at the ER to help me sleep, but of course I don't want to rely on that. I bought Niacin yesterday in desperation. It's not slow-release, though. You say this will help? I'm tiny (98 pounds) so I'm unsure how much I should take. I just want to feel better.

 

[caledonia]

I have a question!

In the document, you say to use slow release niacin. Does it have to be slow release, or will normal work?

I'm recovering from taking b12 for ten days. It's been 2 weeks since I stopped, and I'm still having insomnia, anxiety, brain fog, etc. I was prescribed Ativan last week at the ER to help me sleep, but of course I don't want to rely on that. I bought Niacin yesterday in desperation. It's not slow-release, though. You say this will help? I'm tiny (98 pounds) so I'm unsure how much I should take. I just want to feel better.

I have some normal niacin (nicotinic acid) in my cupboard which I remember using, so it's probably fine. If I remember correctly, the amount to try is 50-100mg. If you get a niacin flush, don't be alarmed, just try a smaller amount the next time. The niacin flush looks and feels somewhat like a sunburn. It's temporary, for maybe an hour. If it's going to help, you should feel some calming pretty quickly.

 

[pinkpapaya]

I have some normal niacin (nicotinic acid) in my cupboard which I remember using, so it's probably fine. If I remember correctly, the amount to try is 50-100mg. If you get a niacin flush, don't be alarmed, just try a smaller amount the next time. The niacin flush looks and feels somewhat like a sunburn. It's temporary, for maybe an hour. If it's going to help, you should feel some calming pretty quickly.

Will the niacin get me back to normal completely? Or does it just get rid of the symptoms temporarily?

I appreciate your help! I'm just learning about all this since I've been affected for 3 weeks.

 

[caledonia]

Will the niacin get me back to normal completely? Or does it just get rid of the symptoms temporarily?

I appreciate your help! I'm just learning about all this since I've been affected for 3 weeks.

It will get you back to normal. But you will likely have to dose the niacin several times a day until the symptoms settle down. Could take days or weeks. Basically, the niacin is taken every four hours or whenever symptoms return. You keep taking it until you're feeling better. I noticed I started getting niacin flushes on lower and lower doses as I was getting better. I don't know if everyone is like that or not.

 

[Katy131]

Help! Why do I still need so much potassium after stopping my methylation supplements?

I stopped taking all my methylation supps in the Autumn (one by one I cut down, not all at once) because I think I was over methylating and getting symptoms like migraines from it. I even stopped the multi I was taking because it contained the active and methylated versions of B vits. I didn't want to halt all the good work I'd done getting my body to methylate better over the previous six months or so - just to get to a balance point. However I'm still on huge amounts of potassium - about 1335mg from Potassium Gluconate alone - and that barely covers me - I often wake in the night with nightmares and palpitations. Taking a Potassium settles it very quickly. I have been drinking high potassium juices as well but recently cut them back because of the sugar intake (thinking of my annual blood tests in a few months' time). I'm on a rotation diet so I can't just drink Coconut water every day.

There is 5000 mcg B12 (methyl cobalamin) in my Sunshine salt mineral mix but that's the only B supplement I am taking.

https://www.salesatdrmyhill.co.uk/sunshine-salt-300-g-392-p.asp

So questions:

Could this B12 dose be continuing my symptoms and high potassium need all by itself? Do I need to worry about my potassium intake - my regular GP/nurse would be shocked. Is it in fact a good sign that my body is methylating well by itself now? How long will it be before it normalises and I can reduce the potassium?

Thanks for any thoughts and ideas in advance

 

[Bluebluesky]

Could this B12 dose be continuing my symptoms and high potassium need all by itself? Is it in fact a good sign that my body is methylating well by itself now?

Yes, it certainly can. 5000mcg is quite a high dose of b12.

If this happens you were probably b12 deficient without knowing and that hindered cell division (methylation problem). So your body couldn't do it's repair work. Now when you get b12, cell division works, and you need a lot of potassium for all those new cells that are needed for repair. That is a good thing.

Do I need to worry about my potassium intake - my regular GP/nurse would be shocked.

In your situation it is perfectly normal to have this huge need for potassium. It can be outright dangerous to cut your intake down. Your symptoms are telling you that you need potassium. GP/nurse are dangerously unaware about this need for potassium when the body starts to rebuild.

How long will it be before it normalises and I can reduce the potassium?

That is hard to tell. I've asked the same in here and several people told that after more than 10 years it hasn't stopped. This differs from what I have seen in b12 deficiency groups where it seems to stop after some months or a few years at most. It might be about the severity of the b12 deficiency or maybe people with ME react differently.

I think there could be more than one perspective on what is happening her, so maybe you will get other answers explaining it differently.

Important thing is: you need to get enough potassium. You can probably slow it down by taking less b12, but don't stop alltogether, since it is basically a healthy process. You might develop other deficiencies along the way since the process takes other nutrients than potassium too (cofactors).