Roadblocks to Successful Methylation Treatment

caledonia

Senior Member
Messages
4,543
Likes
3,842
Location
Where the land is hilly and they eat hot chili
Hi All,

I've been working on this document for awhile, as these are common questions and situations which come up over and over.

I've identified 17 roadblocks to successful methylation and how to get around them. I think I've run into most of them - lol. Hopefully others can benefit from my experience and the collective experiences of others.

I have it geared towards ME/CFS patients - being super cautious so you don't make yourself worse - but anyone trying methylation treatment for whatever reasons should find it useful.

3-27-16 - I have revised the section on metal chelation. Basically, the only type of chelation I suggest is Cutler frequent dose chelation. Also updated the link to find a methylation practitioner.

7-22-2014 - I have added a new section regarding Lithium Deficiency and a few other minor changes.

7-28-2014 - I have added a new section regarding Rich Vank's Simplified Methylation Protocol and the discontinuation of the General Neurological Health Formula.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,049
Likes
4,247
Thank you so much for sharing this, Caledonia. It is a little too late for me but I have lost the ability of planning ahead some years ago anyway LOL

izzy
 
Messages
24
Likes
2
Location
UK
Thank you, this is most useful.
I have added this and some of your other documents (4R gut and start low go slow) to the documents I have put on this forum and printed them out and made a wiki which I have in a folder, I have found this very useful :)
 
Messages
44
Likes
9
I am about to embark on Methylation cycle, preluded by Fixing Gut Health.

Due to the complicated ins and outs of Methylation I have been doing much research, and I find this document, along with your others as linked in this one, hugely helpful and informative.

Thank you very much for taking the time to put it together. I for one am very grateful.

I do have a few q's however and wonder if you can help me clarify?

a) Everything I have read suggests reactions to methylation cycle are normal. So how do you know when the reaction is normal and you have nothing to worry about, vs when you need to start the CBS protocol?
b) How long does CBS protocol take?
c) Do you stop taking the core methylation cycle supplements when doing CBS?
d) Is l-carntine fumarate something that should be considered core (along with MeCbl, AdoCbl & Methylfolate), is it something that should only be taken when the 3 core's are being well tolerated, or is it something that should be only taken when the 3 core's are not being well tolerated? My understanding on it's place in the cycle is hazy.

Thanks a lot!
 

caledonia

Senior Member
Messages
4,543
Likes
3,842
Location
Where the land is hilly and they eat hot chili
a) Everything I have read suggests reactions to methylation cycle are normal. So how do you know when the reaction is normal and you have nothing to worry about, vs when you need to start the CBS protocol?
Heartfixer has the best info on how to tell if you need to treat it.

b) How long does CBS protocol take?
I think about 2 months average. It took me 3 months.

c) Do you stop taking the core methylation cycle supplements when doing CBS?
Technically since CBS is a First Priority mutation (going by Yasko theory), then you wouldn't have started any core supplements yet. Core supplements are Second Priority. This just means you do them second, it doesn't mean they're any less important.

d) Is l-carntine fumarate something that should be considered core (along with MeCbl, AdoCbl & Methylfolate), is it something that should only be taken when the 3 core's are being well tolerated, or is it something that should be only taken when the 3 core's are not being well tolerated? My understanding on it's place in the cycle is hazy.
According to Freddd theory, l-carnitine fumarate (LCF) is a co factor which if you don't have it, may become a block to getting the methylation cycle going.

I took LCF because Heartfixer suggested taking it if you had energy problems, and also the LCF part of my Kreb's cycle showed up blocked on my Nutreval test. I took it for many months, and it gave me a bit of much appreciated energy. Now with further healing, I don't need to take it anymore. After discontinuing it, my energy hasn't gone backwards, which I take as a good sign.
 
Messages
44
Likes
9
Heartfixer has the best info on how to tell if you need to treat it.
OK, so I gather this is determined by the tests... Without taking the tests much more guess work/luck is involved.

Edit: The difference in cost between 23andme & NutrEval is about $700. Is the NutrEval really worth that much more?

Also, given that Sulfate and Ammonia seem to be the two most important CBS factors tested for, might urine/blood tests of these be a decent money saving alternative?

Technically since CBS is a First Priority mutation (going by Yasko theory), then you wouldn't have started any core supplements yet. Core supplements are Second Priority. This just means you do them second, it doesn't mean they're any less important.
This is where I was getting confused. My interpretation was that you started CBS if Methylation was not working correctly. I didn't know it should be done before starting Methylation cycle. I guess both are possibly true, only I didn't understand the latter.


Thanks for clearing that up!
 
Last edited:
Messages
44
Likes
9
Also, one last question:

Given the 6-8 week "honeymoon" period, does this mean it is best not to increase dosages at all for at least 2 months, even if we are experience no negative reactions?
 

caledonia

Senior Member
Messages
4,543
Likes
3,842
Location
Where the land is hilly and they eat hot chili
Edit: The difference in cost between 23andme & NutrEval is about $700. Is the NutrEval really worth that much more?
The Nutreval is a very comprehensive functional test. You can get an idea of what you can learn from the test by looking at the Nutreval Interpretation Guide linked in my signature.

Also, given that Sulfate and Ammonia seem to be the two most important CBS factors tested for, might urine/blood tests of these be a decent money saving alternative?
Yes. The "poor man's test" is to just use the urine sulfate strips.

This is where I was getting confused. My interpretation was that you started CBS if Methylation was not working correctly. I didn't know it should be done before starting Methylation cycle. I guess both are possibly true, only I didn't understand the latter.
You could do it either way depending on your tolerance for experiencing adverse symptoms. I actually did it the first way by accident and experienced the classic stress/anxiety reaction. Then I had to go backwards and stop all methylation supplements until I had CBS resolved. Then I was able to proceed with methylation.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
Messages
4,543
Likes
3,842
Location
Where the land is hilly and they eat hot chili
Also, one last question:

Given the 6-8 week "honeymoon" period, does this mean it is best not to increase dosages at all for at least 2 months, even if we are experience no negative reactions?
Yes, Start Low and Go Slow. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Once methylation gets cranking it's like a speeding train, just like I show in the Methylation Made Easy videos. There is lots of momentum and inertia (cellularly speaking) and it takes awhile to put on the brakes if you run into problems with overmethylation, metal detox, mood swings and so forth.
 
Messages
1
Likes
0
I have a question. I have this genetic testing done through Genova Diagnostics back in 2010. Yet the results weren't explain well enough to me nor was I put on a complete protocol. I struggle with Lyme disease, many of the co-infections, plus EBV, and MCS.

Is there a place where I can find out more info on the results I got from this company?
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Likes
3,338
I have a question. I have this genetic testing done through Genova Diagnostics back in 2010. Yet the results weren't explain well enough to me nor was I put on a complete protocol. I struggle with Lyme disease, many of the co-infections, plus EBV, and MCS.

Is there a place where I can find out more info on the results I got from this company?
Kfarming, If you could post the result of the test in a new thread I think you will get help.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
Messages
4,543
Likes
3,842
Location
Where the land is hilly and they eat hot chili
@Kfarming Here is the sample report: http://www.gdx.net/core/sample-reports/Neuro-Genomic-Sample-Report.pdf
It tests MTHFR C677T and A1298C, COMT V158M, GSMT1, GSTP1 A114V, SOD2 A16V (which is reported backwards as -/- being the bad one)

So that's somewhat useful info, but it would be good to see VDR taq to help with COMT interpretation, MTR, MTRR, BHMT, CBS and so forth.

Like Helen says, make a new post with your results and some people will likely stop by to interpret. If you want a particular person, like me or Valentijn, then type an @ sign and then their name like I did at the top of this thread for you. The person will get an alert to read your messge.
 
Messages
8
Likes
0
This document is awesome! My ND is studying with Ben Lynch and said that I needed to deal with COMT before the MTHFR stuff. I wonder if this is newer information or maybe she just has it wrong. She said that in order to tolerate the methyls, we need to deal with COMT and MAO A. I also have VDR taq +/+.