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My plan for surviving covid, plus vaccine dillemmas

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
curious, when you had covid-19, did you display or feel any classic symptoms of illness when you crashed? Or did the virus cause a crash without
I had classic obvious signs of acute illness yes. The heart stuff was worse than the lung stuff but basically I had ever symptom from acute covid to the extent that I went to ER even tho I have going to doctors and hadn't been for years at the time
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
@frozenborderline Since you tagged me, thank you for the info on the COVID fighters. Good to know.

I think, as you've pointed out, dying from COVID is a lot worse than vaccine side effects. All the ME/CFS top clinician's have advised that we all get the vaccines. AND take antihistamines and mast cell drugs with it. I do know a couple of very specific, very ill cases where they advised against it, but they have all said getting VOvID would be way worse than the vaccine.

I had 3 Moderna doses. Normal but significant side effects and fatigue for a week with doses 1 and 2. Booster was a full dose, I had worse side effects but they only lasted 2.5 days. I had HHV6 reactivate after dose 2 - lucky to have caught it by routine testing before dose 1 and after dose 2, and it's taken valganciclovir AND famciclovir to beat that back.

We can't just hide from COVID and ignore it. It's around, is very contagious and anyone we come in contact with might inadvertently pass it on. I think we hear way too much from the complainers and hand wringers, and not enough from the vast majority of people, most of whom do have comorbidities, who do ok, with some discomfort.

And, we should be aware of all the toold available if we do get COVID and be willing to spring into action to track them down if needed, like sotrovimab, Paxlovid, vitamin C, etc.
 

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
think, as you've pointed out, dying from COVID is a lot worse than vaccine side effects
Well this is basically the opposite of how I feel. I'd be fine with dying from covid. Just dont want to get a case that worsens my symptoms or causes long covid but doesnt kill me. If vaccines protected against long haul covid, then I would 100 percent jump to get them today, but it doesnt seem like theres a correlation between severity of initial case and long covid , and I found studies showing it doesnt make a big difference. I really dont care about hospitalization or death, I have a DNR and DNI and living will. I DO care about getting long covid.

If this was very simple and straightforward, I would have already made the choice. I think it's a lot harder. Maybe the most cautious thing besides wearing good masks which I already do , Is to get a single dose of the Pfizer vaccine which is less reactogenic than moderna, and see how the first dose goes. But now they're saying it doesnt even stop transmission at all.

Again I only care about stopping long haul symptoms. Not about preventing death.

I am not in Facebook groups with many people with this disease, but what I've seen reported from there, like jen says, is lots of severe mcas and me/cfs patients getting intense long vaccine reactions. Probably still better than the disease , but in some cases not, bc it doesnt necessarily protect against omicron

I'm not disagreeing I just want to see some data and also more anecdotes before I decide either way .

Novavax was a truly great option. A traditional technology like the vaccines I've already had. But the company bungled the rollout. Ironically I'd have to fly to some country I cant travel to without a vaccine to find a place that has it soon
 

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
I realize that most me/cfs doctors are recommending vaccines across the board, but I do think that there is some mainstream bias here. Nobody wants to be accused of being anti science or letting their patients die, but we dont really understand long haul symptoms from vaccines, they're not all testable things but a lot of things in me/cfs aren't things that come up on a basic workup either so I dont trust that its safe for vulnerable populations. I do think it's safe for people like my family who are healthy, and they got it to protect me a few variants ago when that actually worked, when it was about stopping transmission and herd immunity, not just the bare minimum of lowering deaths.
And what about treatments for covid. Wecouldve used that research funding and push that got that vaccine done to look at long covid and acute covid treatments. Theres a couple pills or antibodies but they're in insanely short supply. Our priorities are wrong.
 

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
Do vaccines protect against long covid with previous variants , once someone's infected , and has a breakthrough case?

Do they cause long haul symptoms at a similar rate to the virus ?


Do they affect people with me/cfs or mcas worse than other groups? Or POTS?

Do they protect against long haul symptoms in breakthrough cases of covid that are omicron specifically ? Do they even do anything at all to help in omicron ?

These are the important questions
 

Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
Messages
2,997
I have not read the entire thread but you want to prevent your exposure and you want to take the best treatments you can.
Hydroxy was hyped as an easy answer, it failed in legitimate testing. Actual treatments such as steroids and a few others have passed scientific testing.

The vaccine works well for the original strain and worked quite well against Delta. It works reasonably well against Omicron. The issue is that the vaccines target the spike protein, if here are too many changes to that protein in a new strain then the vaccine loses effectiveness and enough change makes the vaccine unable to confer protection. Omicron is a quite changed spike protein but not changed enough to evade vaccine based immunity but enough to reduce it. Pfizer said they can have an Omicron vaccine ready by March.
That said if you are immune suppressed and your body can't crate antibodies then the vaccine will be useless as the point of it is a non toxic exposure to one piece of covid to build immunity for so that future exposure results in immediate immune attack instead of taking two weeks to create the correct antibody.
This also means your body probably can't create antibodies against covid meaning you are far less likely than the non immunosupressed to survive :cry:

I would suggest KN95 or N95 masks. Even tight fitting eye goggles (eyes can allow the virus into the body but is unappreciated compared to nose and mouth). Cloth masks in theory filter out some covid, but are not great. Ideally we would all wear N95 masks properly fitted. That would kill covid quickly if we all stayed masked around others.

Covid is an aerosol and floats around, Omicron even more than previous strains. The masks are a filter. If someone breathed unmasked and has covid then its in the air nearby and its on items in front of them and they touched. When you buy products put them in covid quarantine for a few days.
So the restaurant where you are 6 feet apart but eat unmasked is not good enough for Omicron, Frankly its often not good enough for the older variants.

Outdoors helps because aerosols disperse faster in larger volumes of air but if getting infected means you may not live then its not good enough either.
So when you touch something outside your house or items not out of covid quarantine (give it 3-4 days) consider your hands contaminated and whatever you touch will become contaminated unless you used hand sanitizer or washed your hands with soap. Also when you remove mask/goggles consider them contaminated by others and keep them away from other items and wash your hands immediately (or hand sanitizer when away from home).

So hopefully some of this helps.
 
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hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,053
I think we hear way too much from the complainers and hand wringers, and not enough from the vast majority of people, most of whom do have comorbidities, who do ok, with some discomfort.

While I agree that the vast majority of people will be okay, I hesitate to criticize the 'complainers and hand wringers'. To the rest of the world, this entire forum is just complainers and hand wringers. So if someone has a rare but debilitating vaccine side effect, that sucks and still doesn't mean the vast majority of ME/CFS people won't be fine - but their experience is still real. They're not just a complainer.

I don't talk much outside PR about events (unrelated to vaccines) that caused me to drop from moderate into more severe for the last half decade, but as anyone severe knows, I'd give everything in my life to get back just that one level of functionality. But I can't talk about it in the 'real' world because I'll be labeled a complainer and hand wringer. A hypochondriac or a psychiatric patient. So I either pretend things are okay, or withdraw when I'm physically unable to pretend.
 

Nord Wolf

The Northman
Messages
564
Location
New England
I realize that most me/cfs doctors are recommending vaccines across the board, but I do think that there is some mainstream bias here. Nobody wants to be accused of being anti science or letting their patients die, but we dont really understand long haul symptoms from vaccines, they're not all testable things but a lot of things in me/cfs aren't things that come up on a basic workup either so I dont trust that its safe for vulnerable populations.

I agree with this statement, which in the great scheme of things means nothing of course. But I do agree that there is professional bias.

I have a short story that goes with it.

About a year ago I was talking with my doctor of 7 years. They told me they had successfully treated 753 patients with COVID from the time it had entered the state. Not one patient had to be hospitalized and not one died from the virus, and not one had lingering issues from it. They had been prescribing hydroxychloroquine twice per day with 50 mg of zinc with added copper with each dose of hydroxychloroquine, and 1,000 mg of L-Lycine per day. Many of those patients they said had underlying conditions of the lungs, heart, kidneys, endocrine and nervous system, as well as comorbid diseases. Supposedly on average over half the symptoms disappeared, and the severity of the rest decreased by half within 8 hours. By the end of the second day all symptoms had resolved and in 4 days all clients had completely recovered with no lingering issues from the virus.

About a year ago the state moved in and told all doctors they were no longer allowed to prescribe hydroxychloroquine to any of their patients, and no pharmacy in the state could fill such a prescription if it came in. My doc said if they were caught prescribing that in-state they could lose their license to practice. My doc couldn’t believe it. They found something that worked and it was taken away. Before the state swopped in to confiscate all documents dealing with those cases, my doc was quick enough to shuffle copies all of them off to their lawyers for safe keeping.

Since the forced cease of the ability to prescribe that medicine combo, my doc has seen many of his clients go to the hospital due to COVID and has seen deaths from it as well - vaccinated and not vaccinated. They have also seen severe side effects from many of the vaccines, especially in medicine sensitive people, folks with strong allergies and those with various diseases and comorbid conditions.

I personally know three people in other states that were prescribed that combination when they contracted COVID (the DELTA variant), and it worked for them. I’m certainly not a doctor and so am not claiming this is the cure-all by any means. I’m just relaying the information as a point of interest.
 

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
that is interesting . I have hydroxychloroquine left over from a prescription off label DoD inflammation and me/cfs . I'm not sure ill take it bc it has heart risks and I need to be monitored while taking it... I am considering other options. Hydroxychloroquine doesn't look that impressive in studies I've seen but __ice9 on Twitter said it was worth taking... However besides the pfizer pill which I think will be in short supply by the time I get Covid still , and the monoclonal antibodies ... What I think may be the best to try is ambroxol, and itpp , respectively ... And maybe losartan

I'd like to go through all of the studies or tips on early Covid treatment by Him, he seemed very smart about it , but stopped posting new stuff awhile ago
 

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
I don't think we should prevent people from taking any drug. Hydroxychloroquine or oxycodone or meth , or peptides like Vasoactive intestinal peptide. If it doesn't affect Others , like maybe with antibiotic resistance, I think you should be able to take it. However I don't know if I've heard quite so amazing results with any drug, including hydroxychloroquine , as that doctor. China early on was throwing s ton of stuff at it and who knows shat worked . And shat works for long Covid. Some scientist say in long Covid cases there are microclots that we can't dissolve with normal treatments or detect With normal tests. They need HELP apheresis to do that
 

Nord Wolf

The Northman
Messages
564
Location
New England
However I don't know if I've heard quite so amazing results with any drug, including hydroxychloroquine , as that doctor.
There was a large group of doctors early last year I think, in America, that came forward with similar results, in mass. I think they were using an antibiotic with the hydroxycloroquine and zinc. Most supplied their documented facts to support it. Within a week there was a major political and media movement against them; slander, defaming, etc. Soon after that up popped a number new articles from Pfizer supporters claiming the medications they used did nothing, but none of those articles supplied any proof (of course). I think since those original doctors had banned together, most if not all remain in practice and hold to their documented claims.
No my doc wasn't part of that group...
 

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
Does anyone here know if there are advantages to p100 respirators with VOC filters over regular types of face mass like N99 or n95? When it comes to Covid I mean, specifically ? I want my carers to use those to be careful for the next two weeks but they say its too embarrassing looking.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Does anyone here know if there are advantages to p100 respirators with VOC filters over regular types of face mass like N99 or n95? When it comes to Covid I mean, specifically ? I want my carers to use those to be careful for the next two weeks but they say its too embarrassing looking.
You might find these useful:

https://ellessco.com/blog/2019/12/n95-n99-n100-difference

https://www.smilewithvk.com//post/surgical-mask-vs-ffp3-vs-n95-vs-respirator-pediatric-dentist
 

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
362
Location
United Kingdom
I suggest that you take a look at the following site for info on treating COVID-19. I used it when I got the virus in June 2020 when a phone doctor wanted to send an ambulance because I was developing breathing difficulties. I refused an ambulance because I would of most likely died. I started some of the herbs that the herbalist recommends and my[EDIT:Smelling mistake ;) ] breathing recovered quickly. I did get some really nasty chest discomfort which moved around my chest. With the blood clotting that it can cause I was concerned that my lungs might have blood clots. At the time I was not taking the items suggested to prevent blood clotting only the stuff I usually take such as Omega 3 oil for inflammation and cell health.

One of the best things for this virus is Cordyceps mushroom. It addresses multiple aspects of the virus. It promotes lung cell maturation, it increases oxygen uptake and reduces inflammatory cytokines. It also benefits the energy too. But only decent quality forms are beneficial with high amounts ~30% of beta glucans. Some sellers promote a high polysaccharide content which is worthless because some forms are cultured on sources of polysaccharides which end up in the final product. Those polysaccharides have little benefit. Fairly generous amounts help.

I have had COVID-19 3 times now and I don't really see anyone but the postman and a few deliveries. The Royal Mail don't respect physical distancing and have given it to me 3 times. #@*"=?^$ The second and third times I had less symptoms each time.
https://www.stephenharrodbuhner.com/articles/
 
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frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
Lmk what a good website to buy cordyceps is then. My main plan will still be good making plus maybe a single vaccine shot to see if I tolerate it , and ambroxol
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Lmk what a good website to buy cordyceps is then. My main plan will still be good making plus maybe a single vaccine shot to see if I tolerate it , and ambroxol
There are several. My ME/CFS specialist highly recommended taking antihistamines, too. I took Pepcid and Benadryl just before and then at intervals for the next 3 days.
 

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
362
Location
United Kingdom
Lmk what a good website to buy cordyceps is then. My main plan will still be good making plus maybe a single vaccine shot to see if I tolerate it , and ambroxol
I am sorry but I am in the UK so it's probably best if you find a good source in your country.
The following site has a very good guide on Cordyceps. They do also sell it but the prices look quite high. The last Cordyceps I purchased was £30.39 for 150g usually £37.99. The US site sells them in 60g amounts for $30. I would recommend that you search for alternatives. I have tried the CS-4 type but did not like the texture which was not powdery and seemed as if it contained moisture. I did like the larger 200g packs of the CS-4.
https://www.realmushrooms.com/cordyceps-supplements-guide/

I get mine from the following UK site but it's probably not worth paying the cost of shipping. I suggest that you search near to you for something similar>
https://www.nutri-fungi.com/shop-mushroom-extracts/

Stephen Harrod Buhner recommends Chinese Skullcap for treating the virus among other things and CS has been recommended on this forum for other things related to ME. It's Efflux Pump Inhibiting properties are what interest me. Chinese herbalists sell powdered extract of CS in 100g pots which are 5:1. They are easy to use, just mix some with warm water.

Here is a bad example of what I was referring to previously>
https://timehealth.co.uk/product/co...polysaccharides-adenosine-0-5-cordycepin-0-1/
30% polysaccharides with beta glucan content between 10% and 15% of total Polysaccharides
Which is a pathetic 3 to 4.5% beta glucans I believe if my maths are correct. Notice how they word it saying 10 to 15% of total polysaccharides. People see the 10 - 15% and believe it is decent while not realising it is much lower.

Nearly forgot the following>
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7331568/