My plan for surviving covid, plus vaccine dillemmas

[frozenborderline]

I need to figure out how to answer the question of if the existing vaccines side effects are worse than long covid sequelae from omicron... and whether the vaccine even protects against long covid in breakthrough cases

I also want to see if there are any treatments for long or acute covid that may work.

Documenting all of this here. Some of this may be pertinent to me/cfs solutions too

My plan:

Phase I

We need to buy time to figure out covid vaccine and stuff by being extra extra careful with exposure and testing and masks.


Maybe even using respirators which would work if I have a different collar than philly collar or a stronger neck


Washing everything and just redundant really in4ense levels of caution for a bit. Maybe going somewhere with less covid like monongahela cabin. Or getting air purifier in room


Also finalize living will and DNR


Phase II

Prepare possible self treatments for covid , like the stuff ice9 said, or what Lisa or bryan or dan say helps

Definitely stockpile ambroxol and losartan … iffy on hydroxychloroquine. But those ones ! And anything that helps my specific type of low immunity


Phase III

Actually decide whether or not to get vaccine and which one. Carefully get first shot of something available if novovax isnt, and if it becomes available get it as second shot or booster or both


Maybe travel to canada to get it or Europe...


Phase IV

Ask immunologist if I can get paxlovid or monoclonal antibody

Ask her if thymosin and or ivig will help



But the treatments:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366111770927132676

That thread recommends ITPP, a type of inositol derivative, to treat covid but it also looks promising for ME/CFS. It's not regular inositol , it seems a bit different. @Hip have you heard of this?

 

[frozenborderline]

"The continued failure to trial or use ITPP in critical care is an indictment against the regulatory and productive institutions of our supposedly-advanced (increasingly just shorthand for 'gridlocked') economy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myo-inositol_trispyrophosphate… It makes blood transport oxygen better."

 

[frozenborderline]

"The continued failure to trial or use ITPP in critical care is an indictment against the regulatory and productive institutions of our supposedly-advanced (increasingly just shorthand for 'gridlocked') economy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myo-inositol_trispyrophosphate… It makes blood transport oxygen better."

ITPP is a membrane-permeant allosteric regulator of hemoglobin that mildly reduces its oxygen-binding affinity, which shifts the oxygen-hemoglobin dissociation curve to the right and thereby increases oxygen release from the blood into tissue.[1] Phytic acid, in contrast, is not membrane-permeant due to its charge distribution.[1]

Rodent studies in vivo demonstrated increased tissue oxygenation and dose-dependent increases in endurance during physical exercise, in both healthy mice and transgenic mice expressing a heart failure phenotype.[1]

The substance is believed to have a high potential for use in athletic doping, and liquid chromatography–mass spectrometry tests have been developed to detect ITPP in urine tests.[2] Its use as a performance-enhancing substance in horse racing has also been suspected and similar tests have been developed for horses[3]

ITPP has been studied for potential adjuvant use in the treatment of cancer in conjunction with chemotherapy, due to its effects in reducing tissue hypoxia.[4] Human clinical trials were registered in 2014 under the compound number OXY111A.[5] The substance has also been examined in the context of other illnesses involving hypoxia, such as cardiovascular disease and dementia[2]

 

[frozenborderline]

2:43 PM · Feb 28, 2021·Twitter for Android

31

@__ice9
·
Feb 28, 2021

Replying to
@__ice9
It costs practically nothing. Thousands of people already use it for athletic activities. It has no side effects, is safe at huge doses in animal studies, and has never had a serious adverse event reported in the community ('that's informal' it's post-marketing surveillance..).

 

[frozenborderline]

ice9

@__ice9
·
Feb 28, 2021

The fact that we are jamming tubes down people's throats before giving this, or for that matter even giving cyproheptadine, absolutely disgusts and appalls me. >Oh that isn't proven Yes. It. Is. READ A BOOK; THEY ARE BOTH LITERALLY BASIC PHYSIOLOGY.
Quote Tweet

ice9

@__ice9
· Jan 6, 2021
We know the 5-HT2A receptor activates platelets, and the 5-HT2B receptor promotes fibrosis. This is basic physiology. We know that 5-HT2 antagonists have been proven repeatedly to block these processes in many related contexts: cyproheptadine is one.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346603548008710144

 

[frozenborderline]

@pattismith @sb4 @Learner1 @rpapen77

 

[frozenborderline]

@pamojja @Murph

 

[frozenborderline]

@Rufous McKinney

 

[frozenborderline]

This er doc thinks vaccine is needed even for omicron

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476772672994488328

Idk ... I'm still not sold either way. You know about impact factor , right and which journals have high impact factor?

So, nature mag, the most prestigious one , published this:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03495-2

And the gist is that it was pre omicron so they said vaccines will help protect against long covid inasmuch as they help with you not getting a case in first place (now that is not true) but with a breakthrough infection they may or may not help, there's not some huge signal, maybe slightly protective

Obviously theres hierarchy of evidence quality even within a good journal but

Its nature mag

It's not a preprint in rxv whatever

Jen brea has said about half of people with our diseases have a negative reaction to vaccines , and not all of those are long lasting , so since covid also fucks u a thousand ways she said maybe get the first shot and see if u have a bad reaction

Not an easy answer either way

Btw if you guys dont have a nature mag login, I will be attaching the pdf. It is a study on long covid and vaccines and breakthrough infections. So very relevant 5o what we are discussing: since personally I dont care if covid kills me but I do very much care if it gives me worse me/cfs. But then again the vaccine has been known to do that (except novavax which is less reactogenic and generally safer but not approved yet )

 

[frozenborderline]

BODY POLITIC

@itsbodypolitic

Breakthrough vaccination Long COVID articles and studies: 1. https://medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.26.21265508v1.full.pdf… 2. https://webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211028/uk-study-says-vaccinated-people-can-get-long-covid… 3. https://nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109072… 4. https://npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/28/1021888033/breakthrough-infections-may-cause-long-covid-symptoms-small-study-suggests… 5. http://thelancet-press.com/embargo/vaxeffectiveness.pdf… 6. https://deseret.com/platform/amp/coronavirus/2021/10/29/22750653/fully-vaccinated-long-covid-symptoms-breakthrough-infections… 7.

 

[frozenborderline]

 

[Gijs]

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...n-affects-upper-respiratory-tract-2022-01-04/

 

[Gijs]

Few people are vaccinated in Africa. Omicron is not a big problem there. Few people are vaccinated in India. Omicron is not a big problem there. And so there are a few countries with low vaccination coverage where Omicron does not seem to be a problem. It is quite contradictory to say that vaccinated individuals will experience less distress than unvaccinated by Omicron. It seems that it is precisely the vaccinated that cause the development of variants because there is a mutation pressure, say some scientists. Vaccination help for the old variants about 3 to 4 months. After that there is little effect. Boosting started when there was no evidence that it would help against Omicron. That's why I think mass vaccination is very risky. Look at the people who come to the ICU and define this risk group. Give this group vaccinations and other risk groups. And of course who wants to be vaccinated. Passing the virus around with the risk groups that have been vaccinated should help us out of trouble. Now variants just keep coming up and it just keeps getting worse. We have to accept that we can get sick and people die. That's life. Not everything can be made. Nature rules not the scientists. That's life.

 

[frozenborderline]

Few people are vaccinated in Africa. Omicron is not a big problem there. Few people are vaccinated in India. Omicron is not a big problem there. And so there are a few countries with low vaccination coverage where Omicron does not seem to be a problem. It is quite contradictory to say that vaccinated individuals will experience less distress than unvaccinated by Omicron. It seems that it is precisely the vaccinated that cause the development of variants because there is a mutation pressure, say some scientists. Vaccination help for the old variants about 3 to 4 months. After that there is little effect. Boosting started when there was no evidence that it would help against Omicron. That's why I think mass vaccination is very risky. Look at the people who come to the ICU and define this risk group. Give this group vaccinations and other risk groups. And of course who wants to be vaccinated. Passing the virus around with the risk groups that have been vaccinated should help us out of trouble. Now variants just keep coming up and it just keeps getting worse. We have to accept that we can get sick and people die. That's life. Not everything can be made. Nature rules not the scientists. That's life.

I have concerns about vaccines and dont think they're all safe for people with ME/CFS but I think this is a massive oversimplification

Covid doesnt just cause people to die, which I'd be fine with, it also causes long term illnesses like me/cfs and nasty organ damage.

Omicron is seemingly milder. Whether or not it causes less long covid is anotherquestion, it is just known that it hospitalized less per capita and causes less proportion of deaths. So if it's TRUE vaccination caused this variant... wouldnt that be a point in favor of vaccination? Not that I am for or against vaccines , but by your logic, if omicron is a weak variant and vaccines cause the evolution of these variants, all the vaccines caused the weak variant, which would be good.

Covid-19 isnt just nature. So when you say we have to live with it bc its nature, I disagree. Even if it is not from a lab leak, which is totally possible, globalized industrial society most likely made such a pandemic more of a possibility. The factory farms are reservoirs of zoonotic virus spread into human populations, and also the more overpopulation and the less biodiversity we have, the more we have viruses like this. There is a correlation btwn lack of biodiversity and nastier bugs taking over whole ecological niches and pandemics in general emerging after destruction of nature and human intrusion into it upsets a balance. Also without global plan travel and supply chains exactly the way they are the virus couldn't spread so easily.

So why is this pandemic seen as something natural rather than as a problem caused by an advanced techno industrial society ? It's the epitome of artificial, even if coronaviruses themselves are found in nature.

 

[frozenborderline]

I also think for those of us who are on the fence bc we think covid is a risk and vaccination is also a risk, you are not making your point very well if you simply dismiss the risk of covid. It's a nasty bug. I've had it once and it made me crash very hard and had terrible effects on my blood pressure and heart and on my ligaments and arthritic pain. So I know covid is nasty and its real. The only reason that knowing that I didnt get vaccinated yet is that one has to weigh the risk of vaccines which have also caused these symptoms in people, against the risk of the disease, and if you decide to get the vaccine , you are deciding 100 percent to be exposed to those risks , whereas 4he risks of the coronavirus may not even have a chance to happen since you may not get the virus.

 

[frozenborderline]

It would also be good to have evidence on those claims of vaccines giving worse outcomes in icus . It's not that I don't believe you, but I still want to see evidence to know what to believe

 

[Gijs]

Good points. It's a tough decision for us. Vaccination or no vaccination. Another point is: excess mortality. No one knows yet how it comes. Not because of corona, experts say. What causes this? There seems to be a statistical connection with vaccination. But this has not been proven. So if it's not because of corona and not because of vaccination. What is going on?

 

[frozenborderline]

I think for others , the excess mortality might be important to investigate. From a personal perspective, I literally dont care if I die, since my life is so bad with chronic illness already, but I dont want to get sicker while still being alive which Is a possible outcome of either covid or the covid vaccine.

Honestly if it was guaranteed to kill me I would embrace it a lot more lol. But it's not.

I cant commit suicide, but in an ideal world I'd get mercifully killed off by something soon

 

[Gijs]

I think for others , the excess mortality might be important to investigate. From a personal perspective, I literally dont care if I die, since my life is so bad with chronic illness already, but I dont want to get sicker while still being alive which Is a possible outcome of either covid or the covid vaccine.

Honestly if it was guaranteed to kill me I would embrace it a lot more lol. But it's not.

I cant commit suicide, but in an ideal world I'd get mercifully killed off by something soon

I totally agree! I would prefer no suffering any more.....

 

[Nord Wolf]

I also think for those of us who are on the fence bc we think covid is a risk and vaccination is also a risk, you are not making your point very well if you simply dismiss the risk of covid. It's a nasty bug. I've had it once and it made me crash very hard and had terrible effects on my blood pressure and heart and on my ligaments and arthritic pain. So I know covid is nasty and its real. The only reason that knowing that I didnt get vaccinated yet is that one has to weigh the risk of vaccines which have also caused these symptoms in people, against the risk of the disease, and if you decide to get the vaccine , you are deciding 100 percent to be exposed to those risks , whereas 4he risks of the coronavirus may not even have a chance to happen since you may not get the virus.

I’m curious, when you had covid-19, did you display or feel any classic symptoms of illness when you crashed? Or did the virus cause a crash without? The reason I’m curious is because I’ve a handful of acquaintances in Europe with more severe levels of ME/CFS, like myself. They all contracted covid-19 at one time or another in the last year. None displayed or experienced any of the illness symptoms that are said to be common with covid, or any other typical viral infection symptoms like with influenza. They all had severe PEM crashes, though each stated it just felt like a severe crash as opposed to say having the flu. I’m no doctor, but to me I would think it hard to consider them the “asymptomatic” crowd since they the virus did cause them all to crash hard.