Methylcobalamin Inhalation Therapy

[aturtles]

My partner, who is not only an avid vaper, but a fairly bright fellow, decided to track this all down. Here's what he wrote:

Re: http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/Smoking/49655

The conclusions are more alarming than the facts...

From above:
"Fixed-voltage commercial e-cigarettes generally operate at 3.7 V"

I found a full text link to the first cited study:
http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/10/1319.long

Note particularly figure 1. http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/10/1319/F1.expansion.html

This shows the levels of Formaldehyde, Acetaldehyde, and Acetone, with three e-liquid bases (PG,VG,PG+VG) at three voltage levels 3.2, 4.0., and 4.8.

There's a very steep rise at 4.8V, but quite smaller levels at the lower voltages, close to 0 at 3.2.

It's too bad they didn't measure 3.7V, the voltage most commonly used by commercial e-cig vaporizers, but one could interpolate the 3.2 - 4.0 results and see they come in at near 0 for Formaldehyde, and about 1 µg for Aceteldehyde, and Acetone.

PG appears worse than VG (though it's a much more satisfying base for smoking replacement)

Some toxic material risk FAQs for ...

Acetone:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=3&tid=1

Acetaldehyde:
http://www.epa.gov/chemfact/f_acetal.txt

Formaldehyde:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tf.asp?id=219&tid=39

I note that the measured amounts in the study are in micrograms (µg) per 15-puffs. Most of the above FAQs talk about parts-per-million (ppm) in the air. The formaldehyde one notes that 5 milligrams/liter is considered safe in drinking water. If one drinks a liter per/day at that concentration, that would be equivalent to over 2,500 puffs/day at the most extreme measurement from the study.

Anecdotally, I personally take 200 puffs on a heavy use day, more frequently 30-50 puffs/day

 

[Freddd]

The formaldehyde one notes that 5 milligrams/liter is considered safe in drinking water. If one drinks a liter per/day at that concentration, that would be equivalent to over 2,500 puffs/day at the most extreme measurement from the study.

Hi Aturtles,

I would not be quick to be sure that oral absorption in mg/liter, or oral absorption at all, corresponds to vaped absorption. How much of these items are absorbed in the digestive tract and how much passes right through. Also, the damage taking place might be to the lungs themselves and might not have any corresponding damage to the gut. These things would have to be accounted for in making any valid comparison I would expect. I have no idea how things would sort out.

 

[physicsstudent13]

can hydroxocobalamin increase your cyanide levels by concentrating it somehow? I was having strange brachycardia and slowed thinking and trouble pronouncing words and really blurry vision.
I thought it is FDA approved for cyanide poisoning?

 

[Freddd]

can hydroxocobalamin increase your cyanide levels by concentrating it somehow? I was having strange brachycardia and slowed thinking and trouble pronouncing words and really blurry vision.
I thought it is FDA approved for cyanide poisoning?

HyCbl does combine with cyanide. However the problems you are having are normally due to lack of MeCbl. HyCbl is not active until the body converts it to MeCbl and/or AdoCbl. Many bodies don't do that and even more don't do it well. The daily limit of conversion is in the tens of mcgs. A 1000mcg of MeCbl does a whole lot more with a good quality MeCbl. You need to correct those things quickly as they can become permanent. Good luck

 

[physicsstudent13]

thanks dear friend!!! I had stroke with blindness, couldn't speech or do math or theology, terrible fogginess, brain wouldn't work. How much Jarrow's formula mb12?

 

[physicsstudent13]

which is good mb12, ienzymatic the only good mb12? try piping rock puritan pride but have no reaction

 

[Sherpa]

which is good mb12, ienzymatic the only good mb12? try piping rock puritan pride but have no reaction

Enzy is the best... Seeking Health is very good.. Country Life, Jarrow, Solgar are all pretty good but not on the same level.

 

[Coolie]

Has anyone said what to me seems obvious... the safe level for a given substance to eat does not mean it's safe to take that substance into the lungs. Who would know what the ramifications are over the years, whether it be carcinogenic or some other problem?

 

[physicsstudent13]

yes agreed, don't jump into inhalation. I only would consider inhalation therapies since I have severe incurable asthma that doesn't respond to inhalers

why am I having dizziness, blurry vision, vertigo and I've lost my hearing with tinnitus? I was taking over 3000mg a day of methylfolate and maybe 2500mg of potassium pills and maybe 10000mcg/day of hydroxo b12. is that from the piracetam?

 

[Freddd]

yes agreed, don't jump into inhalation.
why am I having dizziness, blurry vision, vertigo and I've lost my hearing with tinnitus? I was taking over 3000mg a day of methylfolate and maybe 2500mg of potassium pills and maybe 10000mcg/day of hydroxo b12. is that from the piracetam?

Hi Physicsstudent,

10,000mcg of HyCbl a day can cause partial methylation block. It certainly does not correct it. It is about a 1% replacement for AdoCbl and MeCbl.

 

[physicsstudent13]

how can I correct the blurry vision, extremely damaged slow thinking, inability to hear and speak? Should I take 5g of methylb12/day?
the hydroxo b12 is still useful in raising oxygen levels by lowering cyanide levels if you've ever been exposed to cigarette smoke

 

[Freddd]

the hydroxo b12 is still useful in raising oxygen levels by lowering cyanide levels if you've ever been exposed to cigarette smoke

It does exactly the same in removing cyanide as does AdoCbl and/or MeCbl. There is no advantage to it at all except to starve your brain of MeCbl if what I observed that an effective MeCbl has to be at least 20% of the total serum level to be effective. All 3 remove cyanide by becoming Cyanocobalamin.

 

[physicsstudent13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylcobalamin
A lack of methylcobalamin can lead to megaloblastic anemia and subacute combined degeneration of the spinal cord.

 

[leela]

I'm a bit late to the party @aturtles, @ahmo, @bluewhistled, @skwag but i've been reading with interest (and intense brainfog.will have to re-read later.)

Just wanted to pipe in that when I was at the dispensary today I bought an e-cig thingie because they had pure CBD in fractionated coconut oil. I wonder if FCO is nicer than VG or PG (the latter of which I defo don't want.)

Any further experiments/updates from you pioneers?

 

[ahmo]

@leela I opted for transdermal instead. Seemed easier. I'm really happy with it. Here's a thread discussing it. I started with the commercial oil mentioned, b12oils.com, but then switched to DIY, using Bluebonnet 5000mcg B12 liquid and applying it w/ body creme. Simplest, most economical solution for me.

 

[aturtles]

I'm a bit late to the party @aturtles, @ahmo, @bluewhistled, @skwag but i've been reading with interest (and intense brainfog.will have to re-read later.)

Just wanted to pipe in that when I was at the dispensary today I bought an e-cig thingie because they had pure CBD in fractionated coconut oil. I wonder if FCO is nicer than VG or PG (the latter of which I defo don't want.)

Any further experiments/updates from you pioneers?

Fractionated coconut oil is an interesting idea, and worth trying. The ecig equipment can be pretty fussy -- I've burnt out cartridges by using the wrong mix, so keep in mind that some experimentation may be necessary. if you do try FCO, @leela, please report back about how it works, and in what proportions!

I still have no real opinion on the safety of inhaling VG or PG. I use a mix of both myself, with as high a concentration of MeCbl as my vaping system will allow, so that I don't need to use as much.

 

[leela]

Thank so much @ahmo. I ended up in this thread via the B12 oils one! Am weighing the options of going back to self-injecting sub-q or trying the oils. Never thought to try DIY...

 

[leela]

Thanks @aturtles. I've just used the FCO/CBD a few times in the ecig thing and so far so good.
I'm still rather confounded by the whole issue of obtaining reliable B12 crystals, then doing the math for the water/FCO...so I think I may just go back to injecting if I can determine the ampoules are handled correctly regarding light. I like the sound of those B12 TD oils but $$.

 

[aturtles]

Thanks @aturtles. I've just used the FCO/CBD a few times in the ecig thing and so far so good.
I'm still rather confounded by the whole issue of obtaining reliable B12 crystals, then doing the math for the water/FCO...so I think I may just go back to injecting if I can determine the ampoules are handled correctly regarding light. I like the sound of those B12 TD oils but $$.

$$ is right. There are a number of approaches to getting MeCbl into the system, and many of us are hoping for a near-term future in where high-quality MeCbl is not so expensive, so we can, for example, use liquid nasal spray -- needs more, but seems to achieve somewhat different absorption results. The advantage of vaping is that it conserves MeCbl, as does injection, but they both have downsides.

I know a bit about the light problem, though not a lot. Since it's off-topic, feel free to PM or chat me and I'll help if i can.

 

[garyfritz]

@aturtles, I wouldn't say it's off-topic at all, and I'm sure a number of us would be interested. Please share!

The B12 oil is definitely not cheap, but neither are any of the other options I've looked at. Is there a good trustable source of pure B12 crystals (methyl and adenosyl) for DIY oils and creams? I wouldn't trust any Chinese supplier. Don't want any melamine or pesticide in my B12.