LED red intranasal light therapy

[Asklipia]

@ Little Bluestem
The LED brings about a pain under the left jaw, which I interpret as lymph being pushed up there. For the moment, it hurts because for some reason or the other (bad alignment, or too much lymph at once) the lymph nodes get stressed because they are too full.

This is exactly what happens to some people who start T4 supplements or even natural thyroid supplements, ot even iodine supplementation.
For example :
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroi...For-caner-patient-with-no-thyroid/show/685147

This could mean that the LED boosts thyroid function.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I am taking just T3. Do you know if that could effect the lymph? Since T4 ultimately gets converted to T3, I suppose that it could.

 

[Asklipia]

I am taking just T3. Do you know if that could effect the lymph? Since T4 ultimately gets converted to T3, I suppose that it could.

Yes I think that it could.
And that the answer is not in stopping the thyroid function, but in making sure that there is no blockage of lymph anywhere.
For that :
- the lymph has to be more fluid
- the body has to be aligned
- there must be enough muscular activity to push the lymph around
- the sympathetic and the parasympathetic activities of the nervous system must be balanced. This is a huge point most always overlooked because few people have knowledge in detail of this, and they are not sick or interested in medicine. In the same way as blood flow depends in some measure of SNS or PNS activity, the lymph flow too follows this.
For example most people know that when you run, SNS takes over and blood flows to the muscles and leaves the internal organs, and when you rest, blood leaves the skin and goes to the internal organs.
The problems of blood distribution are well known. I would like to point out that the left jaw problem also appears in the blood distribution there. Notice the success that Italian doctor had with MS patients by cleaning their jugular vein, on the left side most of the time. Dr Zamboni and his CCSVI procedure - Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency - http://ccsvi.org/index.php/the-basics/what-is-ccsvi).
And in fact when I was very ill I would wake up many times in the night with my head turned completely to the left, effectively blocking as much as I could blood (or lymph) from moving in that area.
Which makes me think that this left-side blocking is not the cause of MS or CFS, but a desperate attempt of the body to protect the brain.

The hypothesis of Dr. Perrin is for me in the same vein (haha). He says that lymph goes the wrong way sometimes and gets stagnant and it starts ME. I think that the reason why lymph goes the wrong way and you get the varicose lymph vessels, eventually, is because sympathetic or parasympathetic activity is unbalanced. Once you have created larger lymph nodes, you have to duplicate them to make room for all that lymph, you get more lymph nodes as well as enlarged ones. You push the lymph in the wrong way anywhere you can to avoid build-up etc. Eventually it becomes uncomfortable, but for it to come to that bad point, it takes years. Which is why it is difficult to understand what exactly brought the problem about in the first place.

SNS and PNS push the lymph around in different ways. When both are perfectly in balance another third lymph distribution pattern happens (like in love, opioid use, death).
The lymphatic system is the Tree of Life.

Thank you very much Little Bluestem for making me write this. I hope many other people enjoy it.

I notice the LED gives me enough strength to concentrate and write many long posts relating things I thought but did not have the energy to organize in words. Thank you Lou for the LED idea!
Lots of red light to all!
Asklipia

 

[maddietod]

I've switched to the morning, and my sleep is back to my normal. I'll report on changes from the LED if/as they happen. Since I've got a 90 day guarantee anyway, I plan to keep using it daily. I'm doing it while I meditate.

 

[froufox]

Interesting thread everyone! I wonder how the Vie light compares to the Bionic 880, that was used for Lyme, in terms of their effects. I definitely "herxed" on the Bionic and had some quite significant improvements at the time although they didnt last.

Just realised that the Vielight company also sell an Infrared 810 LED, so I guess that would be similar to the 880 and penetrates deeper into the tissue, though more expensive obviously, although its cheaper than the Bionic.

Anyway will follow all of your progress/adventures!

 

[froufox]

Are most/all of you using this one?: http://www.vielight.com/intranasal-light-therapy-device-category/

 

[Asklipia]

Are most/all of you using this one?: http://www.vielight.com/intranasal-light-therapy-device-category/

Yes, I use the 633 red (on the left)

 

[knackers323]

You should have a look at his website :
http://www.theperrinclinic.com/index.html
On the left hand side, there is a button "media/video". There you will find 6 very short videos where he explains his ideas.
Roughly, he thinks reverse lymph flow, due to spinal misalignment, causes toxin build up in brain.

What I found very interesting was that my spine did not look so bad as the spines shown in his photographs, but then my husband's spine was like this a few years ago before he got better. And the symptoms fitted.
Also this is consistent with my symptoms worsening after massage, which most probably causes this reverse lymph flow if the practitioner is not very good, or if you have these varicose lymph ducts he speaks of.
Then I ordered the book, thinking it would be a good idea to know more in detail what he proposes as a cure.

While I was reading the book I remembered the yoga exercise that I have been proposing here, an exercise I had learnt years ago, but which I was totally unable to do then. It seemed to me that this exercise was in fact a way to do a kind of Perrin Technique without a chiropractor. From his point of view I could understand the point of all the numbers in the exercise. So I started to practice it every day.

I believe he is right in many ways. I also know we can change our bodies by gentle every day attention.
I do not think having the lymph drained away is sufficient, because if posture is not right, then the problem will come back, and for posture to be right, you need to get rid of the lymph which is where it should not be, but you also need to build muscles and attention that will keep the body aligned, and from this the lymphatic system will eventually change, some parts of it will fade away, new parts will be created (the lymphatic system is plastic and changes according to the body's needs) and lymph will stop accumulating where it should not be. The pressure will be off and everything wil be fine. In time. Virtuous circle.
In fact, I believe he is right, but that without rebuilding the body it is an endless task. Which explains why there are people who do not seem to benefit.

I hope this answers your questions.
There are threads here on PR that have touched the subject :
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-perrin-technique.23149/#post-378010
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...mph-drainage-massage-makes-sense-or-not.7266/
and more if you do a search.
Best wishes,
Asklipia

Hi Asklipia, that is very interesting about the spine. I just noticed that mine also seems very flat. Has the shape of your husbands spine changed as he has gotten better? Thanks

 

[Asklipia]

Hi Asklipia, that is very interesting about the spine. I just noticed that mine also seems very flat. Has the shape of your husbands spine changed as he has gotten better? Thanks

Yes, his spine now is nearly perfect. It was very very bad twenty five years ago. I think if I had known then what I know now, it wouldn't have taken so long for him to recover.
Best,
Asklipia

 

[Dreambirdie]

So I bought the nose light and have used it once... in the am for 15 minutes. This will go on my list as one of the strangest things I've done.

It improved my daytime energy for a few hours, but my sleep last night was NOT improved at all. In fact I think it made my sleep worse, and I feel a bit revved up and cranky this morning.

What I've read on this thread is that Asklipia and Lou each had fairly decent sleep before they began the red light treatments, so I'm more focused on others who have bad sleep to start with. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone here (besides A and L) has mentioned considerable improvement in sleep after starting the light.

Sushi ... has a lower "dose" helped you with sleep? What about you, leela... have you noticed improvements in sleep yet?

 

[Sushi]

Dreambirdie

I have switched to using it in the morning. This seems to prevent the sleep disturbance, though if I use it in the nose (even for a couple of minutes on each side) I do get a headache that lasts all day. This could be because I have Bartonella as that usually involves the brain. No one else seems to be getting headaches?

Today I tried about 8 minutes on the navel. As soon as I felt the beginning of a headache, I turned it off. For some reason I am just very sensitive to it. I can't see why I'd get headaches unless it is "doing something," so I'll keep experimenting.

But no, it has not improved sleep for me---yet!

Sushi

 

[leela]

Regarding Asklipia's excellent comments on SNS/PNS balance, since I began the excerises, I have added to the end each time a few minutes of alternate nostril breathing. I know I tend to PNS dominant, so right-nostril breathing would be indicated for stimulating SNS--but somehow, with the exercises, it felt more correct to do the alternate nostrils. This technique is also good for balancing the hormones.

Dreambirdie, it is difficult for me to report on specifics with the light, because I received it during a terrible crash and period of stress (friend in coma) which I'm still in, so I can't say for sure some of the effects--except for what I reported with the navel experience--it is very stimulating for some hours and then brings be a more continous sleep period than usual. This happened both times I used the light in my navel.

I skipped it yesterday because I had a terrible episode of what felt like unrelenting hypoglycemia, (nothing helped) the cause of which I don't know. It might have been the iodine, which I had been painting on skin previously, but had taken a one-drop oral ddose earlier in the day which could have increased insulin sensitivity.

It could have been related to a terrible stressing conversation that got my adrenals spitting norepinephrine like crazy. I dunno. But the light felt like the last thing I wanted to do, which I'm kind of feeling today as well. I have a migraine today, so there's a temptation to use it in the nostril to see if it helps, but I feel so poorly that the thought of any potential stimulation sounds unwelcome. Still feeling some residual hypoglycemia today as well, but much less. Kind of worried I have gone diabetic, but that''s OT.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Dreambirdie

I have switched to using it in the morning. This seems to prevent the sleep disturbance, though if I use it in the nose (even for a couple of minutes on each side) I do get a headache that lasts all day. This could be because I have Bartonella as that usually involves the brain. No one else seems to be getting headaches?

Today I tried about 8 minutes on the navel. As soon as I felt the beginning of a headache, I turned it off. For some reason I am just very sensitive to it. I can't see why I'd get headaches unless it is "doing something," so I'll keep experimenting.

But no, it has not improved sleep for me---yet!

Sushi

Too bad that you're getting the headaches. And I wouldn't assume it's necessarily a good sign. Sometimes our bodies just don't like something and let us know it.

I don't like being wired, which this device has triggered... so my first thought is that I want to return the damn thing already. I have never had something that makes me feel initially bad turn out to be good in the end. Usually, if it's going to work, I feel benefits from the start. So I am skeptical already. I'll give it a rest until I come down and give it one more shot. If it cranks me up again, it's going back.

 

[Lou]

That might be best, Dreambirdie, send it back. In the meantime, I, and probably some others, are going to give it a fuller hearing. We're all different, I usually get worse before something helps me; chelation therapy, b12 protocol, gcmaf, ice baths, rife therapy, and for that matter, cough syrup and antiseptics come to mind. Sorry it isn't helping you.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I'm reporting in to tell you all that two days after my 15 minute Vie Light treatment (on Thursday at 10 a.m.) I am still dealing with it's NEGATIVE EFFECTS ON MY NERVES AND MY SLEEP. Very frustrating. I'm not sure exactly why it had such a negative impact on my brain and nerves, and why it made me so much more wired and sleepless, but it's certainly not what I expected or wanted. I didn't imagine that sticking what looks like a little red Christmas light up my nose would have much of an effect at all. Little did I know it would be like drinking caffeine.

When I spoke with the company rep, he told me that the light stimulates the pineal gland and regulates the circadian rhythm. He also said it increases mitochondrial functioning. So that's the company's claim of what it is "supposed" to do. But for those of us with hyper-sensitive nervous systems, you never know what it actually will do, and how that will manifest.

I never do well with anything that is stimulating to my nerves. Now that I know this light fits into that category, I'm not going to use it again. I've changed my mind about giving it another chance. Anyone else here who has a nervous system that is highly sensitive to overstimulation should BE FOREWARNED: The Vie LIght can be a potent nerve stimulant.

I should add, just for the record, there are some things that actually calm my nerves. That list includes: magnesium, holy basil, L-tryptophan, L-theanine, progesterone, and various combinations of herbs prescribed by my TCM practitioner. Acupuncture can also be helpful. I will stick to those.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Reading this from the Vie Light's web page on SAFETY AND SIDE EFFECTS, I see that they do not include overstimulation as one of the side effects. I will let them know that they should.

"After more than three decades of research there is no known major side effects attached to these light therapies.

Reported side effects for some first-time users include:
• Tiredness (temporary) – probably due to the release of metabolites but the majority report a resurgence of energy
• Headaches (temporary) – from the reactivation of neural connections and increased microcirculation
• Dry throat (temporary) – from the stimulation of renal functions
• Reactivation of repressed mental trauma – the reactivation of neural connections may trigger repressed traumatic memories to resurface.

Contraindications:
Over 40 years of accumulated scientific studies on low level light therapy reveal no major contraindication. However, this therapy is not recommended for use in the presence of cancer tumor in the nasal area ( Nasal polyps on the other hand has responded positively)."

http://www.vielight.com/safety-and-side-effects/

 

[leela]

So I skipped the light for two days, and last night I had the best, longest sleep in a while. My hypothesis for the moment, for my own system, is that the navel is the best way for me (more on that in a bit) but I need to to find the right days on/off rhythm for this. I find it interesting that, using it, I immediately recognised the need for iodine (more on this too in a sec), and, due to Asklipia's sun article, started doing not direct sun gazing, but the "sunning and palming" of the eyes that I had learned from Meier Schneider years ago. Doing neck rolls (without the chin-tuck) with eyelids closed so that the entire visual field including peripheral gets explosed to that lovely RED color that seeps in through the eyelids. Then palming, to re-find that dark black eventually.

I finally figured out from research and remembered experience that the horrid hypoglycemia day followed by a day of migraine that was not abated by Rx, was in actuality a severe, sudden detox from taking far too large a dose of iodine. I had rather misread (yes this *is* happening a lot to me lately!) some of the material, and was just not thinking straight, when I went from painting it on in a belly-patch for several days, to taking a full drop of 5% Lugol's. Since the "normal" dose is two drops I thought I was being prudent. Don't do this, sensitives!!

When painting the iodone, most of it evaporates into the air, leaving a small store in the skin to be absorbed slowly. Wasteful, but very useful for those who do not detox well. If I try an oral dose again, I will put one drop in a bottle of water and take one ounce of *that* at a time. I now know from experience that iodine is indeed a very powerful chelator, antimicrobial, and antifungal. Titrate, titrate, titrate.

As for the light and the navel, I think it is doing something similar to the iodine in terms of the whole of the blood passing by and getting a cleansing, albeit a much milder one than the iodine overdose! So if I do that early, on a day I don't feel dreadful, and can handle an increase in energy, I feel energized and refreshed, and then later sleep substantially better. And it appears (we'll see with more experimenting) the sleep gains are increased if I do not repeat the navel treatment for a day or two.

We are all so wildly different. It's like doing a crossword puzzle; sometimes you have to put the wrong answer in to find the right one!

 

[Wayne]

When painting the iodone, most of it evaporates into the air, leaving a small store in the skin to be absorbed slowly. Wasteful, but very useful for those who do not detox well. If I try an oral dose again, I will put one drop in a bottle of water and take one ounce of *that* at a time. I now know from experience that iodine is indeed a very powerful chelator, antimicrobial, and antifungal. Titrate, titrate, titrate.

Hi Leela,

Thanks for you comments on iodine. I seem to remember Dreambirdie also way overdosed on iodine, and had some very bad reactions. --- Regarding how powerful iodine can be, I read an account once of a man who was simply unable to handle the herx from creating a Lyme bacterial dieoff, and had to stop his protocol. Later, after he began to supplement with iodine, he noticed an enormous difference in his ability to handle the herx reactions from the dieoff. --- But as you point out, the dosing obviously needs to be done very carefully and methodically.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hi Leela,

Thanks for you comments on iodine. I seem to remember Dreambirdie also way overdosed on iodine, and had some very bad reactions. --- Regarding how powerful iodine can be, I read an account once of a man who was simply unable to handle the herx from creating a Lyme bacterial dieoff, and had to stop his protocol. Later, after he began to supplement with iodine, he noticed an enormous difference in his ability to handle the herx reactions from the dieoff. --- But as you point out, the dosing obviously needs to be done very carefully and methodically.

Yes, I did have a very bad reaction to iodine, which was half responsible for the current 4 year crash I am currently in. The other half of the responsibility for this huge crash goes to hydrocortisone, which I have posted about many times on this forum.

The problem I had with iodine was that, after only ten days of applying it in a ring around my navel (as directed by an integrative MD who recommended I do this), I began having extreme overstimulation of my thyroid. This included a two month long ordeal with cardiac arrhythmia, which was quite terrifying, and which I barely managed to manage with acupuncture and high doses of transdermal magnesium oil.

Ever since this iodine debacle (at the end of 2009), I have not been able to tolerate much iodine at all. Even small amounts of seaweed can trigger a squeezing pain in my thyroid and make my pulse erratic.

I would be very careful with iodine. It's much more potent than you'd think.

 

[Asklipia]

since I began the excerises, I have added to the end each time a few minutes of alternate nostril breathing. I know I tend to PNS dominant, so right-nostril breathing would be indicated for stimulating SNS--but somehow, with the exercises, it felt more correct to do the alternate nostrils. This technique is also good for balancing the hormones.

Yes I think alternate nostril breathing is best after that exercise.
Also now I understand that the red light is powerfully helping the sympathetic response so no need for extra right nostril stimulation.

Understanding that the red light stimulates the SNS made me feel that I should be careful with the red not to overstimulate

If we are in a parasympathetic mode most of the time, this is probably because we do not have the resources to fight and flee! If feel that the red light is a help because it can bring about healing effects but I should rest in between. For example, I feel that the "boiling blood" effect which happens with the red light is the same I get with strenuous exercise, except that I cannot do strenuous exercise so easily and do not do it as a rule. That boiling blood is certainly having good results on the tissues, oxygenation and rejuvenation which I could not achieve without this strenuous exercise.

Dreambirdie
I did not report improved sleep, as I was sleeping fine before the LED experiment. I did report that sleep was not too disturbed. However after more than 3 weeks of this, I feel I should skip a few days to get back to my previous style of sleeping.

I skipped it yesterday because I had a terrible episode of what felt like unrelenting hypoglycemia, (nothing helped) the cause of which I don't know. It might have been the iodine, ...
It could have been related to a terrible stressing conversation that got my adrenals spitting norepinephrine like crazy. I dunno. But the light felt like the last thing I wanted to do, which I'm kind of feeling today as well.

If you are still doing the exercise, it could be implicated too. Waves and waves of detox appear and disappear with this. For the last two days I have been covered with pimples in my back, my neck, my ears, and my backbone has dramatically changed for the better. Needless to say I have been feeling hopeless and distressed as well, never mind these good results!!!

Still feeling some residual hypoglycemia today as well, but much less. Kind of worried I have gone diabetic, but that''s OT.

I shouldn't worry too much about this. I have felt this quite a few times along my practise of the exercise. As well as vague nausea sometimes. It comes and goes, and gets weaker as you go along, and eventually disappears. I think this must be a result of the chemicals been released.
If you don't faint from hunger all of the sudden, it is not too bad

This LED and this exercise are both very powerful tools. I think I have to be careful but I am thrilled to have them! Something that works! Over the last three weeks I have had excellent results.

LED 633 nm trial - Day 28

I used the LED two nights ago at 5 pm on my belly-button. I felt the light carried in the blood. That night I did not sleep very well, so the last two nights I didn't use the LED. But these last two days I had a lot of energy and did a lot of yoga, with amazing results.
I think I shall skip the LED again tonight.

Lots of good wishes to all!
Asklipia