do you do anything else that helped?
Have you described somewhere what B vitamins you are taking now?
Oh, and if you're interested, here's a study that talks about glutathione in ME:
I found this somewhat difficult to comprehend. Would you be willing to summarize or highlight the key points?
(emphasis and spacing added)Shungu et al 2012 said:Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is a complex illness, which is often misdiagnosed as a psychiatric illness. In two previous reports, using 1H MRS, we found significantly higher levels of ventricular cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) lactate in patients with CFS relative to those with generalized anxiety disorder and healthy volunteers (HV), but not relative to those with major depressive disorder (MDD).
In this third independent cross-sectional neuroimaging study, we investigated a pathophysiological model which postulated that elevations of CSF lactate in patients with CFS might be caused by increased oxidative stress, cerebral hypoperfusion and/or secondary mitochondrial dysfunction. Fifteen patients with CFS, 15 with MDD and 13 HVs were studied using the following modalities: (i) 1H MRSI to measure CSF lactate; (ii) single-voxel 1H MRS to measure levels of cortical glutathione (GSH) as a marker of antioxidant capacity; (iii) arterial spin labeling (ASL) MRI to measure regional cerebral blood flow (rCBF); and (iv) 31P MRSI to measure brain high-energy phosphates as objective indices of mitochondrial dysfunction.
We found elevated ventricular lactate and decreased GSH in patients with CFS and MDD relative to HVs. GSH did not differ significantly between the two patient groups. In addition, we found lower rCBF in the left anterior cingulate cortex and the right lingual gyrus in patients with CFS relative to HVs, but rCBF did not differ between those with CFS and MDD. We found no differences between the three groups in terms of any high-energy phosphate metabolites. In exploratory correlation analyses, we found that levels of ventricular lactate and cortical GSH were inversely correlated, and significantly associated with several key indices of physical health and disability. Collectively, the results of this third independent study support a pathophysiological model of CFS in which increased oxidative stress may play a key role in CFS etiopathophysiology.
The above 2012 publication is from researcher Dikoma Shungu at Cornell University.Increased ventricular lactate in chronic fatigue syndrome. III. Relationships to cortical glutathione and clinical symptoms implicate oxidative stress in disorder pathophysiology
Shungu said:This phase two, single-site study will utilize a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized, pre-/post-treatment design to investigate the effect of NAC dosing on brain GSH levels and measure temporally concordant plasma levels of several established circulating markers of oxidative stress. Three study groups, of 20 subjects each (for a total of 60 who completed all components of the study), will each be administered a different dose (0 mg/day, 900mg/day, 3600mg/day) of the study intervention over a four week period; N-acetylcysteine (NAC) treatment. Subjects receiving 0 mg/day dose will be administered a placebo. Baseline visit assessments will include blood collection, survey questionnaires, MRI and MRS imaging. Subjects whose initial screening confirms low GSH level at baseline will be provided with a 4-week supplement of anonymized NAC or placebo caplets. After 4 weeks, subjects will then undergo a follow-up visit to repeat the baseline assessments.
Before taking B vitamins and NAC, I was moderately severe.
After B vitamins and NAC, just moderate.
May not sound like much of an improvement, but I can objectively do much more than I could do before.
Would you think this could be helpful in me/cfs? This combination seems to upregulate fatty acid oxidation and downregulate glucose usage? Could this be detrimental in me/cfs? Especially in severe cases? Could this explain why some people get worse on NAC?
You're not alone. A lot of people have pretty hellish start-up effects on N-acetyl-cysteine or glutathione. For me, it mostly involved muscle weakness, air hunger, insomnia, and delayed constipation followed by diarrhea. Other symptoms included brain fog, night sweats, and aches.
HOW in the world did you manage to keep going week after week despite hellish effects? i feel like iʻve got so little wiggle room that iʻm unable to sacrifice much to things that kick me down at the get-go... need some of your inspiration
I just started taking liposomal glutathione, which initially had some positive effects of clearing brain fog, and a feeling of well-being. However, soon it started causing anxiety, and then irritability, without the positive symptoms I experienced earlier. I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen to most users, and tried to research it. I came across something saying that a subset of glutathione users may experience anxiety/irritability, and that taking selenium, magnesium, and zinc before, as well as well as magnesium, niacin, zinc, and molybdenum afterward may get rid of these symptoms. That's a lot of supplements to buy just to see if it works, so I'm going to keep reducing the dose and see what happens. I initially tried 700mg, then 350mg, then 175mg, all of which were too much for me. I also experienced strong irritability after taking undenatured whey, which I understand is a glutathione precursor. The positive effects I have experienced sporadically have made me want to continue experimenting despite the negative ones. Anyone have an idea of what's going on with glutathione causing anxiety/irritability, and what to do about it?